Mel Fisher faced this for 20 years

[2cmorau]

EXCLUSIVE: Couple who found $10m hoard of gold coins while walking dog could have broken law by not telling the police | Mail Online

 

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[golden ray]

Flasks is correct. Mel Fisher had no salvage rights. Generally none are needed (this is as of 1989), who knows now!
The 'finders/keepers' rule is not in effect on LARGE finds. The state of Florida will send some one to appraise your (their)
find and on anything of 'historic' value, they claim 'first bid'. Meaning, they just keep it.
I had this discussion with Mel Fisher & his crew many a times over breakfast at the local dinner in Marathon, FL.
The government is GREEDY. And will ALWAYS find a way to stick it to you. Best Bet--JUST KEEP QUIET.

 

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[B H Prospector]

This is all just from memory since I didn't get out my history notes. I really don't think these gold coins came from the Dimmick heist of the San Fransisco mint in 1900. The coins are dated starting in 1847. San Fransisco mint didn't exist then. Those coins would have been minted by a private mint as most gold coins were then. The only US Mint in operation then was Philadelphia and I think Deloniga was still a private mint at that time and I think , I maybe wrong, was the only mint coining gold at that time in the east.

 

[YumaMarc]

Ok, how's this for a rotten scenario?

These were US gold coins, therefore US government property. They were buried as a hoard with obvious intent to conceal, not kept as numismatic collections when the US went off the gold standard and required all gold to be turned in. They are no longer in circulation, therefore they are STILL US government property, and due to the illegal concealment factor they must be turned in to the US government.

I could see this happening. However, if not, there will be government agencies, tax authorities, insurance companies, former landowners, individuals, relatives, etc., etc., etc., lined up for a cut. It could be bound up in court for YEARS!

 

[Aurabbit79er]

As a gold miner I learned many years ago you never let the world know how much gold you found. I only Share with only those I trust, and that is a short list. In the 1800's we had to contend with Bandits, Claim jumpers and Robber Barons. Now all the crooks ware badges. Hide everything.

 

[fowledup]

I'm a huge history buff and love to see it preserved for future generations. However after seeing the direction this is going to go for these folks. I have to say if it were me, my complete and utter disdain for the greedy bas---rds would make me do things different. First, as said keep quite. Second, I'd re-bury or hide a coin or two of each of the years found for history's sake and a security blanket for my future generations to enjoy. Third, I'd melt it down (ugh that's hurts). Fourth, I'd open a new claim somewhere out of the way and have one he'll of a paying claim for a long long time.

 

[YumaMarc]

I'm a huge history buff and love to see it preserved for future generations. However after seeing the direction this is going to go for these folks. I have to say if it were me, my complete and utter disdain for the greedy bas---rds would make me do things different. First, as said keep quite. Second, I'd re-bury or hide a coin or two of each of the years found for history's sake and a security blanket for my future generations to enjoy. Third, I'd melt it down (ugh that's hurts). Fourth, I'd open a new claim somewhere out of the way and have one he'll of a paying claim for a long long time.

I would pack all of them very well so they wouldn't get scarred, then hide them in a VERY secure place. Every couple months I'd sell one, but always in a different place, and if possible get other people to sell one occasionally so they wouldn't be all sold in my name. I'm sure some places, maybe all, would require ID so they can report as required to their IRS masters.

 

[goldenIrishman]

Well I saw an article today saying they now are pretty sure they came form a mint heist around 1900 or so. They're saying that the face value of the coins matches the amount stolen during the heist.

One thing that bothers me about all of this is that the coins were un-circulated but they had dates over a wide range on them. So why pray tell was the mint holding onto coins that were over twenty years old?

If they can prove that these are the coins from the heist, and the people turn them in, I feel they should still get a reward of at least 10%. Better than than nothing which is exactly what they're going to end up with if the decide to fight this.

 

[YumaMarc]

Well I saw an article today saying they now are pretty sure they came form a mint heist around 1900 or so. They're saying that the face value of the coins matches the amount stolen during the heist. One thing that bothers me about all of this is that the coins were un-circulated but they had dates over a wide range on them. So why pray tell was the mint holding onto coins that were over twenty years old? If they can prove that these are the coins from the heist, and the people turn them in, I feel they should still get a reward of at least 10%. Better than than nothing which is exactly what they're going to end up with if the decide to fight this.

I'd give big odds they will end up with nothing no matter what!

 

[Bum Luck]

They would pay on value of coins today. Like any asset if you sell it down the road you owe taxes on the profit... If you win a car on a game show you pay taxes on it, if you hold that car for 10 years and for what ever reason it becomes a collectible and you sell it for 3 times what it was worth when you won it you owe taxes on the profit realized.. American by birth, Patriot by choice. I would rather die standing on my two feet defending our Constitution than live a lifetime on my knees......

I don't like it, but that's how it works. Same as stocks.

 

[2cmorau]

Golden i have to agree, So why pray tell was the mint holding onto coins that were over twenty years old?
$10M Gold Coin Hoard Found in Yard May Have Been Stolen From Mint
$10M Gold Coin Hoard Found in Yard May Have Been Stolen From Mint - Yahoo

 

[diggummup]

I sure hope they don't end up too far in debt over this.

Imagine that! The irony of it all. Anytime someone finds something of significant value, the usual parasites start crawling around with their hands out. Like a bunch of damn crack heads I tell ya. Time and time again, people should just learn to keep their mouth shut, period. I can't wait to see how this all pans out in the end. I can almost guarantee they will get screwed somehow.

 

[diggummup]

Golden i have to agree, So why pray tell was the mint holding onto coins that were over twenty years old? $10M Gold Coin Hoard Found in Yard May Have Been Stolen From Mint $10M Gold Coin Hoard Found in Yard May Have Been Stolen From Mint - Yahoo

Not to mention that the oldest coin is from 1847, the robbery was in 1899, that makes the oldest coins over 50 years in my book. Does the mint hoard coins for that long? They are saying it is from the S.F. Mint robbery because of a single 1866 double eagle without the "In God We Trust" motto on it. They say this proves it came from that robbery.

 

[goldenIrishman]

Report on the CBS morning news....

The Mint says it has no record of any robbery and will not be investigating. Odds are getting better that the couple will be able to keep the coins. BUT... They're still going to be TAXED TO DEATH on the find. Can't win for loosing!

 

[YumaMarc]

Report on the CBS morning news.... The Mint says it has no record of any robbery and will not be investigating. Odds are getting better that the couple will be able to keep the coins. BUT... They're still going to be TAXED TO DEATH on the find. Can't win for loosing!

That is good to hear!! But the IRS, combined with our corrupt DOJ, can claim they are STILL government property because they weren't turned in when gold was recalled, thus illegal to possess, thus "stolen". I don't know if they would try that, but I can't put ANYTHING past these scoundrels! (DARN! Now I'M probably on the NSA's watch list!)

 

[pods]

That is good to hear!! But the IRS, combined with our corrupt DOJ, can claim they are STILL government property because they weren't turned in when gold was recalled, thus illegal to possess, thus "stolen". I don't know if they would try that, but I can't put ANYTHING past these scoundrels! (DARN! Now I'M probably on the NSA's watch list!)

It's okay, the list is bigger than you think. And when shipped off to Camp Fema, we will be able to field a heck of a softball team.

 

[tomsilver]

They should have incorporated themselves. Then set up a holding company to own the corporation. Melt down (I know a travesty but needed to avoid this crap) five ounces and sell it for gold spot price. Do that every six months for a couple of years. Then see about selling one or two coins anonymously to a dealer. You then at least have some cover and can say you bought the coins with the money from the melted gold. Of course you bought all of your gold from someone on CragsList who didn't make his identity known to you.

 

[YumaMarc]

It's okay, the list is bigger than you think. And when shipped off to Camp Fema, we will be able to field a heck of a softball team.

With as many as you are implying, we might even get up a whole futbol league!

 

[Bum Luck]

.......BUT... They're still going to be TAXED TO DEATH on the find. ..........

Not until they sell them, right?

 

[Clay Diggins]

Well I saw an article today saying they now are pretty sure they came form a mint heist around 1900 or so. They're saying that the face value of the coins matches the amount stolen during the heist. One thing that bothers me about all of this is that the coins were un-circulated but they had dates over a wide range on them. So why pray tell was the mint holding onto coins that were over twenty years old? If they can prove that these are the coins from the heist, and the people turn them in, I feel they should still get a reward of at least 10%. Better than than nothing which is exactly what they're going to end up with if the decide to fight this.

The mint "heist" was in 1900. The mint director (Cole) was convicted but he got it overturned on a technicality at the Supreme Court. His third in command Dimmick was convicted and jailed.

These coins weren't from that theft. The coins from the two bags stolen from the mint dated from 1855 to 1899. The coins found buried were dated from the 1840's, some were minted in Georgia.

The ultra rare mint condition 1866 no motto was rare because of it's condition, not because there were only a few minted. There were 9,000 1866 no motto coins $5 coins put into circulation from the San Francisco mint alone. There is no way to associate the found coins with the coins from the heist.

The reason the 1866 no motto $5 coin is so rare in mint condition is because California outlawed paper money until 1870. Most states made paper money illegal because of all the fraud associated with paper money issued by banks. Paper money wasn't issued by the United States until the 1862 "greenbacks" were printed to raise money for the civil war.

Gold and silver coin were the only form of real money then so all but the richest men couldn't afford to keep a coin of that size. Pretty much all the minted coin was used in day to day transactions. In 1866 a $5 gold coin would pay the wages of a common working man for more than 2 months!

 

[diggummup]

The mint "heist" was in 1900. The mint director (Cole) was convicted but he got it overturned on a technicality at the Supreme Court. His third in command Dimmick was convicted and jailed. These coins weren't from that theft. The coins from the two bags stolen from the mint dated from 1855 to 1899. The coins found buried were dated from the 1840's, some were minted in Georgia. The ultra rare mint condition 1866 no motto was rare because of it's condition, not because there were only a few minted. There were 9,000 1866 no motto coins $5 coins put into circulation from the San Francisco mint alone. There is no way to associate the found coins with the coins from the heist. The reason the 1866 no motto $5 coin is so rare in mint condition is because California outlawed paper money until 1870. Most states made paper money illegal because of all the fraud associated with paper money issued by banks. Paper money wasn't issued by the United States until the 1862 "greenbacks" were printed to raise money for the civil war. Gold and silver coin were the only form of real money then so all but the richest men couldn't afford to keep a coin of that size. Pretty much all the minted coin was used in day to day transactions. In 1866 a $5 gold coin would pay the wages of a common working man for more than 2 months!

You'll get no argument from me. however the no motto coin in question is a double eagle not a half eagle...


"​Jack Trout told the paper that an 1866 Liberty $20 gold piece without the words "In God We Trust" was part of the buried stash, and the coin may fetch over $1 million at auction because it's so rare."This was someone's private coin, created by the mint manager or someone with access to the inner workings of the Old Granite Lady (San Francisco Mint)," Trout told the newspaper. "It was likely created in revenge for the assassination of Lincoln the previous year (April 14, 1865). I don't believe that coin ever left The Mint until the robbery. For it to show up as part of the treasure find links it directly to that inside job at the turn of the century at the San Francisco Mint."