Metal Detecting in China

[SilverReciever]

I've got your point. Agree 100%. nothing to discuss untill you read a law. But for me it was enough to stop my research in this direction as it was basicly one of my long term plans, which is now is not priority for me.
I keep following it, watching, but don't spend time for it.

 

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[oiwon]

I've got your point. Agree 100%. nothing to discuss untill you read a law. .

Read a law? Where do you think you are? America? Well I'm in China. Wanna google the laws? I can't, google is blocked here.

Lets try this again. Hey guys, I live in China and I'm actually from CA. Perhaps I can shine a little light on this topic for the good of all. I can really appreciate you wanting to do your due diligence regarding this topic because I too have wondered If i would get in trouble for detecting here. So I talked to my lady and her family. I also talked with my Teacher who is a priest, part of a major ancient temple here. Here's the conclusion i've come to:

The fact is the government owns all the land in this country. All of it. Everything on this land belongs to them and all located cultural relics should be reported. That is what i have been told time and again by Chinese citizens. Does that mean you cant detect? No. Does that mean you are going to get in trouble if you detect in China? No. But guess what, you very well may. China isn't the States, there are no laws and constitution to protect your rights here. If the government deems it illegal, it is, they don't have to show you where it's written, and if they need to they will just draft up a law on the spot. That's how it works here. okay? They will hassle you and your funny looking tennis racket just out of boredom. It's a totally different world. Just being honest with you. So word to the wise: detect at your own risk here. Don't try to draw too much attention to yourself (even though as a foreigner that can be impossible at times) because it just takes 1 government official having a bad day to mess up your world. I've been approached from street merchants where i used to live in Hubei that want to sell relics from the cultural revolution and temples, but they have to do it in private because you can get in big trouble for doing that stuff. The Government wants the cultural artifacts to stay in this country. Now maybe you're thinking, a couple of coins isn't gonna hurt anybody. Well, just because you see it that way doesn't mean that they are going to see it that way. It's their land. From the moment you enter this country they want to know where you are, what you are doing, where you are staying, and if you have a cell phone and a bank account they know where you are at all times. Do you have a right to come to their land, detect, dig for treasures, and take them as your own? I don't know the exact law, but i know enough to say with confidence, do so at your own risk and don't draw attention to yourself unless you have the local governments permission. Otherwise, you're going to have a bad time. With that said.. some people, even cops, might just think it's cool and no big deal They'll probably be curious about it.

Do you know the story of the man who found the terra cotta warriors? He's a farmer and found them one day by accident, while digging on his land. When word got out that he had found something special the government took his land from him and didn't give him a cent. It turned out to be a massive find. As for the farmer, now he just sits there near the museum, selling his book and signing souvenirs.

I hope this brings some clarity to the issue of whether it's "Legal" for a foreigner to detect here or not. I've been told it's forbidden. Assume it's illegal and do so at your own risk unless you have local government permission. If it *is* legal, assume the government will want you to turn in the loot. Don't come here acting like a cocky laowai thinking you're invincible and hot sh*t with your metal detector or you will ruin it for everyone.

Cheers!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Oiwon, thanx for chiming in. Let's look at your post, point-by-point:

Wanna google the laws? I can't, google is blocked here....

Ok, sure. So perhaps Chinese "don't have the laws" at the click of a mouse. But ... I'm guessing there's "laws", right ? Sure maybe not perhaps something you can study on line. But ... I'm guessing it's written down somewhere. Right ? Then what's to stop a Chinese citizen from simply going to where that exists, in binder form, and reading them there ?

Or if you say "That's not possible" . That it exists nowhere in print form. And that "It's totally arbitrary, capricious, and whimsical", eh ? So does that mean you could walk down the street tomorrow there, and be arrested for "wearing a blue shirt" ? That was made-up on-the-spot, and no such law exists that prohibits blue shirts ? Ok, let's assume it's that horrible and corrupt. That you can't learn the laws. Laws can be "made up on the spot. Ok, then how about this solution:

You ask a power-that-be at the spot "Hi. Can I metal detect?". Eg.: local police station or policeman standing there. Lifeguard at the beach, gardener at the park, etc... They say : "Sure, help yourself". Does that green light (from the person duly authorized with authority over said-spot of public land) suffice ? Or is it so corrupt and awful there that someone higher up can come and arrest you ? Dismissing your "permission" and "due diligence" to "find out laws"? Then how does ANYONE there know what they "can and can't do" ?

And I find it odd that you cite laws, to back up your assertions. Yet on the OTHER hand, are saying that "laws can't be looked up or known". And corruption makes laws meaningless, blah blah. Well gee, then why/how can you cite a "law" to back up an assertion of something legal vs not-legal ? Do you see the inherent contradictions in what you are saying ?

....The fact is the government owns all the land in this country. All of it. Everything on this land belongs to them and all located cultural relics should be reported. ...

Ok ? And... ? SO TOO can the same be said of England. SO TOO can the same be said of Mexico. Yet ... last I checked, md'ing is going on there. Oh sure, so long as you don't make a nuisance of yourself (raiding pyramids, not reporting to the UK archies, trying to smuggle caches out of the country, blah blah blah). And BTW: Mexico is about as corrupt as they come ! Talk about "arbitrary" and "lack of rights if accused" ?? Try Mexico on for size! Not saying to "throw caution to the wind". But just saying that the fact of "the crown owns all the minerals and wealth underground" type-laws is not unique to China. And ... barring some P's and Q's to abide by, legal detecting goes on.

Heck: While we may not have those "crown" laws here in the USA regarding private land, we DO have them on public land. What I mean is: Take any parks (or beaches or forests or deserts, etc...) here in the USA. If you study the laws here long enough, you will see that "park features" or "forest features" belong to the city or county or state, etc... In other words: You can not just waltz out there and start cutting down trees to sell for lumber. Or harvesting the sand, or taking home the bathroom fixtures, etc.. COULD such laws/rules be applied to individual single coins ? SURE ! But are they ever applied in such a way ? Of course not. Unless someone took out a treasure chest and started making a big news stink about it. Then sure: such laws could be trotted out, and "dire conclusions" be made about "illegal md'ing", etc... Yet reality is far different.

because it just takes 1 government official having a bad day to mess up your world....

I don't know of a country in the world where this can't be said of. Everything that you are saying sort of reminds me of when I was preparing for an md'ing trip to Mexico in the early 1990s: Some club member friends of mine were giving me "dire warnings" of how I could be arrested at the border". Corruption. Don't drink the water. No rights of the accused, Cultural heritage belongs to the govt., etc.... So I started looking into it further (asking my host-to-be). Turns out that as long as you don't do something stupid (trespassing on historic sensitive monuments), or make waves of bags of gold, that .... it's no different than anywhere else in the world. Yet all my friends could envision (same as you talking to a "lady and her family") is that dire-consequences are sure to be envisioned. Because, sure, there are stories that circulate of someone getting roughed up at the border for something silly. Or cops taking bribes for traffic tickets. Or drug cartels murdering people in the desert, blah blah blah. Yet american tourists come and go all the time. Detectors are a common site on the beaches there, etc...

.... With that said.. some people, even cops, might just think it's cool and no big deal They'll probably be curious about it. ....

Say it isn't so ! No automatic hands cut off for md'ing ?

....Do you know the story of the man who found the terra cotta warriors? He's a farmer and found them one day by accident, while digging on his land. When word got out that he had found something special the government took his land from him and didn't give him a cent.....

Yup. There it is. When the subject of legality of md'ing in odd-ball foreign countries (that are either 3rd world, or are not in the "western" culture mindset) comes up: Someone is sure to point to such treasure things as this. Eg.: laws regarding the pyramids. Shipwreck salvor hassles. Or some such priceless treasure that "got someone in hassle". As if to conclude that : Therefore, SO TOO do the same hassles/laws apply to fumble finger coin hunting .

Then think of it: SO TOO could the same be said of the USA: Recall the Mel Fisher legal hassles. Why wouldn't a single gold coin find on the beach be subject to the same laws that got Mel Fisher (just like your farmer) in hassles ? Because, of course, such laws realistically simply do NOT get applied. Could they be ? SURE! If I went and started asking enough lawyers and enough purist archies: "Hi, can I keep this coin I found on the state beach here?" I'm sure I could find someone to say "no".

Also: As for the confiscation of the land owned by that farmer who found the statues: So too does this happen in Mexico if you find oil (a resource/riches as an example) on your own land. Do you think the "farmer is rich"? (like in the Beverly hillbillies story of the USA) ? Of course not. That farmer's land is taken away and only the Mexican government gets rich off that oil. So again: The same legal principle applies. And again, it doesn't get applied to singular coin fumble fingers beach hunting type stuff. Could it be ?? SURE. Anywhere you go in the world.

I'm not saying to throw caution to the wind. I'm not saying that some countries aren't more corrupt and capricious than others. But just saying that if you ask enough questions, and think through things long enough, you will eventually never leave your front door in the morning. "Lest you be attacked by a lion".

How is it that people are md'ing in China right now ? Why can we look up on youtube and see their videos ? And read their posts ? If it were all-fired illegal, then *certainly* it's not hard to track down these persons and go after them, eh ?

.... Don't come here acting like a cocky laowai thinking you're invincible and hot sh*t with your metal detector or you will ruin it for everyone....

Well sure. But a respectful humble non-defiant attitude (if approached by authority) exists EVERYWHERE. Right ? I mean, even here in the USA it's *possible* to get a cop or a gardener waltz up to us and say "you can't do that". And sure, you can defy them, rattle off "your rights" and debate the laws with them, etc.. And sure, you might prevail (they might agree it's not prohibited). OR THEY can prevail. By relying on ancillary verbiage. Of harming earthworms, or ARPA, or "alter/deface", etc.... Thus I agree with you that NO ONE should have such a c*ck-s*cking legal-know-it-all attitude when approached. I'm the FIRST to admit we're in an odd-ball hobby with lots of ... uh ... "connotations".

Thus the discussion of "legal" versus "not-legal" at a place where md'ing is still relatively unknown, or where the culture is vastly different than our western culture, is NOT to imply that a westerner go there, and start "waltzing about demanding his rights", blah blah blah. No more so than anywhere else we go. Because, sure: There scores of things that *might* apply. The same can be said of anywhere. And a little respect, and a little logic of when and where you detect, goes a long way. Like even here in Calif, there are places I won't detect until odd-ball times of day when the places are deserted of park goers. NOT that I think "I'm doing something illegal". But simply because I know md'ing is an odd-ball thing that carries connotations (that I might be about to leave holes, etc....).

 

[oiwon]

@Tom tldr

I hope my perspective is helpful and brings value to readers of this forum topic, so that they might know what to expect should they detect here. Have a nice life.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... I hope my perspective is helpful....

Sure it was helpful. It would have been more helpful if you'd actually answered back some of the counter-points I'd rendered. You cite laws, yet in the same breath, are saying "there's no laws" (yet you just cited laws, doh !).

That's ok. We know is that people are md'ing there. As evidenced by posts and videos. And it's fully to be expected that in ANY country there are "P's and Q's" to abide by. And it's fully expected that in any country that is strange to western culture (especially 3rd world countries ) that there will be stereotypes of swashbuckling , sword-swinging, etc...

 

[F75China]

Hey,. I am new to detecting and would like to find out if anyone knows any Chinese wechat detectorist or prospecting clubs. I have a fisher f75 and i Like to walk with my family and enjoy the nature and detect with the kids. I was thinking on goign to some quiet city parks... I dont want to be arrested. Id guess most police wouldnt care or no what it is about. If I found some old coins that would be cool. I would like to visit like shamian island colonial district place and detect in the parks for old coins. I dont want to go to prison... damn this stress...

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Hey,. I am new to detecting and would like to find out if anyone knows any Chinese wechat detectorist or prospecting clubs. I have a fisher f75 and i Like to walk with my family and enjoy the nature and detect with the kids. I was thinking on goign to some quiet city parks... I dont want to be arrested. Id guess most police wouldnt care or no what it is about. If I found some old coins that would be cool. I would like to visit like shamian island colonial district place and detect in the parks for old coins. I dont want to go to prison... damn this stress...

Welcome F75-China. Question: What makes you think that "prison" and "police" and "arrest" is so imminent ? Have you read any laws forbidding, or heard examples of any results like that there ?

Start with giving us your reasons why you think this is something to fear, and let's start from there. Otherwise, it's sort of like if someone came on and said "I'm afraid of being arrested and going to prison if I fly my frisbee". The person trying to answer that would be scratching his head thinking "since when is frisbee-flying so evil that such consequences are-to-be-feared ? "

 

[F75China]

I have been living here 17 years... so I know a little bit about the grey areas in China... Have you seen the VICE youtube report from Russia and their crackdown? I dont wantttt to run into an over zealous nationistic cop and end up in prison . Not like to see my life instantly destroyed. That being said, it would be nice to find an international or local detecting group so I can get a little feel of their experiance....

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I have been living here 17 years... so I know a little bit about the grey areas in China... Have you seen the VICE youtube report from Russia and their crackdown? I dont wantttt to run into an over zealous nationistic cop and end up in prison . Not like to see my life instantly destroyed. That being said, it would be nice to find an international or local detecting group so I can get a little feel of their experiance....

I don't doubt that some countries in the world have less liberties and freedoms as the USA. But if there's no law forbidding md'ing, are you inferring that some over-zealous LEO there could STILL "put you in prison" for md'ing ? Even if there were no law that said "no md'ing" ? If so: Then how does ANYONE there decide to do ANYTHING there ? Eg.: fly frisbees, whistle dixie, etc...? If you have utterly no knowledge of what they would come up and put you in prison for ?

But on the other hand, if there were some law there that said no md'ing, then that's a different story. But as of yet, you have not cited one. Nor do I know of any. But I do know that there has been Youtube videos and posts from fellow hobbyists in China. And they don't appear to be "going to prison", "arrested", etc.... It's being done there. I'm sure that LIKE ANYWHERE ON EARTH, it's done with P's & Q's minded. And yes, I don't doubt that some countries would require more caution of gripes.

If you are that fearful that LEO's are trigger-happy to "bust the chops of any md'r they see" (as if they hate md'rs and consider it evil?), then how about hunting in remote places where there is no persons or traffic ? Like out in the hills. Or remote country (around old ruins perhaps middle -of nowhere). Or if you're wishing to angle for modern coin/jewelry, then do the beach at night when no lookie-lous are around to gripe ? (you're looking for the ring you lost, right ?) Although I can hardly see the fear, since I recall one youtube video from China where the guy was on the beach in broad daylight. And you could see passerbys in the back-ground paying him absolutely no mind.

Me thinks that if you just avoid obvious historic sensitive monuments, you'd be ok. And if you want to take it a step further: Stick to private farmers land (field during fallow season, for instance). Since that would not be public land, hence outside of the say-so of any laws governing public land. And if you STILL feel like that's not safe enough, then chose locations or times when zero persons are around. So peaceful. So serene.

 

[ansumei]

Hi guys,

I am going to China next week, and I don't know anything about metal detecting. A friend inside the country asked me to bring him a metal detector. He can order online on taobao of course, but there is a risk to get a fake one. He is also not sure which company to choose.. He said "2-3 meters max." Going to look for artifacts at high altitude and the soil is hard (I don't know if this is relevant). Did any of you buy one detector in China? If so, where and which one?
I will appreciate any infos.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... He said "2-3 meters max." Going to look for artifacts ...

Dude, "2 to 3 meters" is 6, to almost 10 ft. deep ! He better hope his "artifacts" are the size of a hubcaps, typewriters, etc.....

And whenever I hear this "2 to 3 meters deep" rehearsal coming from certain countries, it's usually a dead-giveaway that they're on the trail of legends and lore. Ie.: camp-fire stories gone awry. And ... of necessity ... the bigger the treasure , then they believe it must be even deeper ! :/

Stop and think though: an object that a person in antiquity wished to hide from view, is EQUALLY hidden whether at 1 ft. or 10 ft. right ? So long as the top surface of the ground is covered and fluffed it, the object does not get "more hidden" by going deeper. And if you've ever dug a fox hole to 5 or 10 ft. deep, you begin to see the amount of work involved. Why then, is someone 100's of years ago, compelled to put their stuff that deep ?

There are scores of cache recoveries you can read about, that were not necessarily deep. I've recovered a few, and they were jars, boxes, etc.... within the first foot or two.

So I would immediately suspect the type stories he's going to chase. But to answer the question: If it's cache sized objects he seeks, then get a TM 808.

 

[ansumei]

Dear Tom,
Thanks for your reply and advice.

Dude, "2 to 3 meters" is 6, to almost 10 ft. deep ! He better hope his "artifacts" are the size of a hubcaps, typewriters, etc.....
Why then, is someone 100's of years ago, compelled to put their stuff that deep ?

It is supposed to be 350-450 years old. Statues from 7 to 10 cm or 12-20 cm and/or boxes and stuff like that. From abandoned cave settlements.
Another category (and the main one): also statues, coins and/or boxes, maybe jewelry, but 50-60 years old (Cultural revolution period, people tried to hide it, but sometimes later they were forced to move away quickly, couldn't take all of it).

If it's cache sized objects he seeks, then get a TM 808.

Sorry, English isnt my mother tongue, whats a 'cache sized'

So did I get it right: we don't need to search that deep? 2m is a maximum?

Thanks again for your valuable feedback!

 

[Tom_in_CA]

....Sorry, English isnt my mother tongue, whats a 'cache sized'....

A "cache" is a purposefully buried treasure. Like a jar or box of coins. So when someone says "cache sized", they're referring to jar sized (or soda can sized) and up to refrigerator sized, I suppose. Ie.: objects larger than individual coin sized type things.

As for the machine to get: Get a Whites TM 808. It will get a jar to about 1 meter, and a hubcap sized item to perhaps nearly 2 meters.

 

[StuE]

I am trying to find out if any British cloth seals have ever been found in China. We know they were sent there - Review of The Earl of Abergavenny. Historical Record and Wreck Excavation CD-Rom See also - Cloth Seal, Company, 1707 - 1858, United East India

 

[One_more_hole]

Just stumbled on this thread - I'm a brit living in China and regularly metal detect. Never been stopped, never been questioned - and never felt I was going to get into trouble. China has millions of laws for just about everything - but only about 2% of them seem to be enforced!!! I suppose bringing a metal detector into the country could cause some questioning, but I bought my detector here in China (Garrett 4000i). I don't detect on the side of the road or in places where there's too many people, but I live in the west of the country and am very close to mountains and the countryside. I find lots of Ching Dynasty coins and some interesting relics - like cartridges from the late 30's that must have been used in the civil war and today an early communist badge that was marked 1951. I'd love to get into contact with any other China based dectorists - don't think there are many of us.
View attachment 1433028
Pic is of my 5 year old son - he has a kid's bounty hunter and managed to find this 1930's coin

Although I never detected there, I did live in China for a few years and agree the Chinese do not enforce many of the laws. For example, unlike in the USA, you rarely see anyone pulled over for a traffic violation... it's like a free-for-all on the road... rarely see a cop car and I was in a heavily populated area. You see guards in shacks smoking cigarettes and sleeping and regular police seem to be sparse. We did, however, have immigration police knock on our door to check our documents on a fairly regular basis... they do check that. If I were to return I would not hesitate to detect.

I think the best part would be knowing you had the real deal by digging it yourself. Almost all the old stuff and "antiques" at the markets are fake. It was a huge eye opener for me... buckets of US Morgan dollars that looked incredibly authentic. Had I not seen them in China and they were at a US flea market I would not have questioned them.

 

[Midwest4]

I was going to post a Youtube link here to an Italian guy (Golden Dives) that travels the world metal detecting, he hits some really remote pacific islands too. But he had two videos he made a popular mainland China beach, he uses snorkel gear and surf detector to look in the water just off the beach and he made a big haul in two days of diving, 1 particularly large 24k gold ring with diamonds. Asian's almost exclusively buy 24k gold, anything else is considered junk by their standards, sort of like wearing your bank which makes for great metal detecting. Oddly, he recently just pulled those videos, maybe he got into trouble or was threatened by Chinese (even though Youtube is banned in China, there's more and more awareness of Youtube in China and they use a VPN to circumvent China's 'great firewall'. Maybe illegal? But like Tom_CA stated above, China has a million laws, enforces 2% of them... and that's just on the government's whims on what they currently deem to be important. However, I would not go metal detecting in known areas of great historical significance such as Hubei. But I imagine detecting in quiet areas and in the water would probably not draw attention.

 

[perdidogringo]

I was going to post a Youtube link here to an Italian guy (Golden Dives) that travels the world metal detecting, he hits some really remote pacific islands too. But he had two videos he made a popular mainland China beach, he uses snorkel gear and surf detector to look in the water just off the beach and he made a big haul in two days of diving, 1 particularly large 24k gold ring with diamonds. Asian's almost exclusively buy 24k gold, anything else is considered junk by their standards, sort of like wearing your bank which makes for great metal detecting. Oddly, he recently just pulled those videos, maybe he got into trouble or was threatened by Chinese (even though Youtube is banned in China, there's more and more awareness of Youtube in China and they use a VPN to circumvent China's 'great firewall'. Maybe illegal? But like Tom_CA stated above, China has a million laws, enforces 2% of them... and that's just on the government's whims on what they currently deem to be important. However, I would not go metal detecting in known areas of great historical significance such as Hubei. But I imagine detecting in quiet areas and in the water would probably not draw attention.

Hi All,

I'll be heading to Shanghai, China for a new job later in the year. Would be great to meet up with any detectorists in China (assuming there are any). Please reach out if you exist.