It's a dog-eat-dog world............And the OP is wearing milk-bone underwear with a comment like that.
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Metal Detecting in historic sites is wrong and I will tell you why
- Thread starter lailateri75
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It's a dog-eat-dog world............And the OP is wearing milk-bone underwear with a comment like that.
Click bait is working!
"As a community that shares a compassion for history I ask that you offer suggestions/ideas on how we can put an end to such tragedies."
AARC hit the nail on the head. Congress needs to pass treasure hunting laws identical to the U.K.
It's a win-win for everybody.
AARC hit the nail on the head. Congress needs to pass treasure hunting laws identical to the U.K.
It's a win-win for everybody.
crashbandicoot
Gold Member
I agree with what you say TH,but who insulted who here?I read back over the posts and I don,t think any one insulted the OP.Questioned his motives yep,explained to him a few things,that too,but nobody insulted him after he opened his post with a general insult to detectorists.In fact I thought every one was remarkably restrained since in essence he was promoting the elimination of metal detecting on a site devoted to metal detecting.
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I need a beer. Bartender!
crashbandicoot
Gold Member
I,ll take one too.If we don,t defend our hobby sure as hell nobody else is!
Some posts were Deleted .
There is Nothing wrong with Educating the Misguided . I Don't think it's a Forum Rule Breaker to say he/she is not an American.or at least did not post from here.
But I won't say Where he is From. That would be His Decision, IF He even comes back.
but Different attitude Involved.
he may have even posted it to start attacks on him
let's not give him that ! attack the opinion, not the poster
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crashbandicoot
Gold Member
I think that,s what I did,even gave him some good advice to maybe change his opinion on MD,s.Since he didn,t list his country I assumed he was American.I don,t care where he,s from and you can,t make a decision on a post that,s been deleted.All that being said ,I agree with you.I guess being what I think is a rational person I can,t wrap my head around why someone would deliberately invite attacks on himself.Many thanks.Some posts were Deleted .
There is Nothing wrong with Educating the Misguided . I Don't think it's a Forum Rule Breaker to say he/she is not an American.or at least did not post from here.
But I won't say Where he is From. That would be His Decision, IF He even comes back.
but Different attitude Involved.
he may have even posted it to start attacks on him
let's not give him that ! attack the opinion, not the poster
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Member's posts that contain insults that violated rules were deleted.
A member saying comments such as "His sack of marbles may not be full" is an insult and just opens up thread for more insults.
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crashbandicoot
Gold Member
Got it,from Jeff,my bad!
Gene Mean
Bronze Member
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Eyeballs
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Nobody is going to dig where I dig, certainly not an archie. It's mine for the taking and appreciating.
In re-reading your title I agree "historic sites" like Gettysburg, Williamsburg, national historic battlefields should be off limits and are usually so designated.
In re-reading your title I agree "historic sites" like Gettysburg, Williamsburg, national historic battlefields should be off limits and are usually so designated.
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ARC
Gold Member
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What about "his sack of marbles is overflowing". ? ? ?
newnan man
Gold Member
Here in Florida all the sunken treasure is found by private individuals. The only thing the state does is collect fees for the privilege of looking and salvaging & then swooping in and taking a huge share of the finds once recovered. Very few of those amazing shipwreck discoveries would have been found without private individuals spending large sums of time & money doing so.
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"The constant removal of items by 'relic hunters' prevents historians and archeologists alike from accurately dating sites and areas."
Strange that over the years I have been invited by 4 historians to detect sites that they were interested in recording.
2 of these "historians are well authored" So I guess they know a thing or two-but still want to know more.
In all of the conversations 3 of them have never gotten their finger dirtied by dirt-just from print and ink.
At one of the annual digs the archeologists/historians have expressed their interest repeatedly if I could donate time to assist them on the site(s) for recovering the artifacts.
Not that this will ever be answered by the OP-but why would they want my assistance then if in fact I'm actually been removing items for 50+yrs from the dirt?
Strange that over the years I have been invited by 4 historians to detect sites that they were interested in recording.
2 of these "historians are well authored" So I guess they know a thing or two-but still want to know more.
In all of the conversations 3 of them have never gotten their finger dirtied by dirt-just from print and ink.
At one of the annual digs the archeologists/historians have expressed their interest repeatedly if I could donate time to assist them on the site(s) for recovering the artifacts.
Not that this will ever be answered by the OP-but why would they want my assistance then if in fact I'm actually been removing items for 50+yrs from the dirt?
malenkai
Full Member
This has not been my experience. I've been on several digs with archeologists
(thru NGO organizations such as Earthwatch), and they all have been down to
earth, and take the time to explain what they are doing and looking for, why
they are doing it, and how they are doing it. It is quite a good experience if
you enjoy being part of history being unearthed.
I've also been on a hunt, with metal detector, lead by an archaeologist. This was
somewhere in the Brandywine Valley (on private land; the Brandywine Valley being
a big war relic hunting area around here), and that was also quite positive with the
same experience. This was land stated for development, and as part of the
permitting process, they were required to have an archie make sure the area did
not contain significant war era history.
I've also done a survey (with detector) of a township property that was slated to
become a park, and was an old amusement park. They were just looking for
significant historical things, and I could keep any coins I found, just so I documented
where they were. It was a nice arrangement working with these people, even tho
it was clear the property had been hunted quite a bit before I got to it.
Bottom line - I wouldn't generalize about people until you work with them, it
can be fun. Of course, I always follow the law, and if it is there, and I find it, it
is mine, but I keep detailed records of stuff I find and where I find it, in case it
can be useful to history someday.
Just remember, the archies are generalizing about us as well, and I think that that
is a bad idea on their part also.
ticndig
Silver Member
- Apr 17, 2009
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I don't gallop around creating tragedies and if the archeologist want more data they need to get their boots on and get in the woods .they've had 160 years to collect the civil war artifacts yet in 30 years of digging I've never seen them in the woods . Personally I THINK YOU'RE BARKING UP THE WRONG TREE. why even join this site if you oppose the activity. we ain't gonna stop digging .
ARC
Gold Member
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My post said it all but was deleted... i guess i crossed over a line that i thought was not crossed.
Too bad... posts like this need addressing in a real way... and is IMO in direct conflict with the direction of the growth of this website as a whole.
I felt that i addressed it very carefully and tastefully and its a shame it was removed... mainly due the fact it would have possibly opened some eyes out there.
And it also errks me for i spent some thought and time on it.
Again...
I crossed no lines at all... So... ?
Too bad... posts like this need addressing in a real way... and is IMO in direct conflict with the direction of the growth of this website as a whole.
I felt that i addressed it very carefully and tastefully and its a shame it was removed... mainly due the fact it would have possibly opened some eyes out there.
And it also errks me for i spent some thought and time on it.
Again...
I crossed no lines at all... So... ?
- May 9, 2012
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I feel detectorists preserve what is being degraded over time.
There are sites off limits many places. The preservation of thier history as a goal. While they remain un-sluthed and relics decay. I can live with that. More so with native sites.
But if holding a relic is wrong for me , then it should be for non related to it's former users folks too.
History of a given area should be retained in records. Many areas are. Yet others are not.
There's the more recent trend of not molesting found historic or potentially historic relic sites with construction. Tales abound of prior abuses. And rumors of present ones sometimes.
In my hometown construction was halted when pottery fragments turned up.
Why did archeologists or historians not know what was there and why was there no forewarning?
Had the construction crew not said anything would it have been a historic crime? Then archeologists ought to focus on outrunning the steel blades of progress by offering thier services skills and knowledge in advance and quit whining about "pothunters".
Thing is about that hometown site , there were locals who had known the native who had lived there. I'm sure a couple chuckled at the halt of progress , (albeit temporarily) as history was being so threatened...
The village was not unlike so many others on the site of prior native habitation. Who knew who those people were? And why the breach of communication with archeologists back then?
Partly because archeologists' were digging in graves and molesting prior native sites the locals didn't believe needed molesting.
People knew and had known natives. There was no mystery of who had lived there most recently. And what need to dig back farther into time when those who lived there most recently were not respected enough to inquire of history from?
We suddenly changed our minds about the whole affair? If so , why were graves still being molested? History's sake? Or archeological justification of plundering?
There has been taciturn detectorists. For good reason. It's not a two way street of recording and communication of relics for history's sake. As one group believes only they are justified in doing so.
The man who got me started detecting donated many (many!) relics with provenance to a museum. I can recall a large upper room in a village full of tables of such when he was getting involved with the concept of documenting them.
He wrote history books.
Belonged to historical societies and a fledgling museum.
And left a research center as part of his legacy.
His detecting was not like todays. And I'm confident most archeologists would disagree with his efforts. Because he was not officially one of them.
The man preserved much of local history though. More than those who came to dig into mounds under the guise of official study.
He also cared for neglected cemeteries. And thier residents. Native and non native.
I don't doubt there are archeologists somewhere , at least one... With such a gracious connection to a locals history. I've just not met one yet.
What that man did with every relic he found is not my concern. Recording thier history and former users while preserving the context of thier recovery is more the point. To me any ways.
Those recovering relics they value as keepsakes often note thier recoveries. That helps going forward.
I'm trying to locate an atlatl point from Dads estate. I have much background to write of it's recovery. Location and depth , who recovered it and why ect..
Did see it a while back. May know where it went. I just want to add documentation of it. Maybe trace it's outline on the paper I put notes on.
Had the "officials" razed the site they would have discovered what was already known. With perhaps keeping anyone else from touching a relic.
Like todays youth. "Here. This is over a thousand years old. People lived there. Hunted here. Can you figure why?
Can we survive here today as they did? What has changed since? What existed here then for field or forest or soil or wetland , climate and species of animals? That last question can take quite a while to answer. But you're holding proof of something from a blip of ancient time in it's evolution.. A time as real to people then as today is to you." People with major skills. As you can see and feel the example in your hand.
Feel the earth?? Or peek at it through a sheet of glass while standing in a synthetic room without touching the earth underfoot when and if a curator digs something out of storage for the nonprofessional to gaze upon? Something that may have provenance. Though intangible...
I'm old enough now that recovering lost coins from my early childhood on public ground violates the antiquity law. So I'm an antique? With no right to recover relics of the past.... Meanwhile hearths centuries old are covered in homes ,concrete , asphalt. As ever. Because....They are being preserved
?
There are sites off limits many places. The preservation of thier history as a goal. While they remain un-sluthed and relics decay. I can live with that. More so with native sites.
But if holding a relic is wrong for me , then it should be for non related to it's former users folks too.
History of a given area should be retained in records. Many areas are. Yet others are not.
There's the more recent trend of not molesting found historic or potentially historic relic sites with construction. Tales abound of prior abuses. And rumors of present ones sometimes.
In my hometown construction was halted when pottery fragments turned up.
Why did archeologists or historians not know what was there and why was there no forewarning?
Had the construction crew not said anything would it have been a historic crime? Then archeologists ought to focus on outrunning the steel blades of progress by offering thier services skills and knowledge in advance and quit whining about "pothunters".
Thing is about that hometown site , there were locals who had known the native who had lived there. I'm sure a couple chuckled at the halt of progress , (albeit temporarily) as history was being so threatened...
The village was not unlike so many others on the site of prior native habitation. Who knew who those people were? And why the breach of communication with archeologists back then?
Partly because archeologists' were digging in graves and molesting prior native sites the locals didn't believe needed molesting.
People knew and had known natives. There was no mystery of who had lived there most recently. And what need to dig back farther into time when those who lived there most recently were not respected enough to inquire of history from?
We suddenly changed our minds about the whole affair? If so , why were graves still being molested? History's sake? Or archeological justification of plundering?
There has been taciturn detectorists. For good reason. It's not a two way street of recording and communication of relics for history's sake. As one group believes only they are justified in doing so.
The man who got me started detecting donated many (many!) relics with provenance to a museum. I can recall a large upper room in a village full of tables of such when he was getting involved with the concept of documenting them.
He wrote history books.
Belonged to historical societies and a fledgling museum.
And left a research center as part of his legacy.
His detecting was not like todays. And I'm confident most archeologists would disagree with his efforts. Because he was not officially one of them.
The man preserved much of local history though. More than those who came to dig into mounds under the guise of official study.
He also cared for neglected cemeteries. And thier residents. Native and non native.
I don't doubt there are archeologists somewhere , at least one... With such a gracious connection to a locals history. I've just not met one yet.
What that man did with every relic he found is not my concern. Recording thier history and former users while preserving the context of thier recovery is more the point. To me any ways.
Those recovering relics they value as keepsakes often note thier recoveries. That helps going forward.
I'm trying to locate an atlatl point from Dads estate. I have much background to write of it's recovery. Location and depth , who recovered it and why ect..
Did see it a while back. May know where it went. I just want to add documentation of it. Maybe trace it's outline on the paper I put notes on.
Had the "officials" razed the site they would have discovered what was already known. With perhaps keeping anyone else from touching a relic.
Like todays youth. "Here. This is over a thousand years old. People lived there. Hunted here. Can you figure why?
Can we survive here today as they did? What has changed since? What existed here then for field or forest or soil or wetland , climate and species of animals? That last question can take quite a while to answer. But you're holding proof of something from a blip of ancient time in it's evolution.. A time as real to people then as today is to you." People with major skills. As you can see and feel the example in your hand.
Feel the earth?? Or peek at it through a sheet of glass while standing in a synthetic room without touching the earth underfoot when and if a curator digs something out of storage for the nonprofessional to gaze upon? Something that may have provenance. Though intangible...
I'm old enough now that recovering lost coins from my early childhood on public ground violates the antiquity law. So I'm an antique? With no right to recover relics of the past.... Meanwhile hearths centuries old are covered in homes ,concrete , asphalt. As ever. Because....They are being preserved
?
villagenut
Gold Member
I once directed archaeologists to a locally important site that also had woodland period Native American occupation. I discovered the site and did a good share of controlled digging and recording before they got a grant to dig a different site adjacent to my site. There was still a lot of unsearched ground at this site for them to continue with. I provided a nicely done report on the site, full of maps, artifact photos and inventories, etc. They used it to get more grant monies to extend their digging and then excluded me from their initial ground breaking of the site, scraped it all out with a big backhoe...found nothing below the empty crater they dug, and then proceeded to berate me for removing it all and then later saying they believed I may have seeded the site beforehand.....i ended up digging in their spoils piles many, many artifacts as well as from the area outside their crater they had dug from over scraping. I have since revised my record of the site that they say never existed and was now out of context anyways.......but at least they got their big fat check.
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