Misconceptions in the Language Usage of the 1810-1820

[johnnyrev]

More thoughts...TB Sr realizes he's dying and wants to tell his son.
If TB Jr is the same TB in the story who stayed the winter in Lynchburg, his son would not be in NOLA so he would have send word somehow...but where?
Lynchburg? Botetourt county, VA? St Louis? The secret mine north of Santa Fe?

If TB Sr sent word anywhere other than the mine, TB Jr would never get word.

To send word out west would take longer than the trip made by TB Jr since it would have been be sent to a location and wait for someone from the party to pick it up.

So the message would almost have to be sent before TB Jr left Lynchburg in order for it to arrive at the camp when TB Jr arrives in the summer of 1820.

It is possible that TB Sr didn't know his son left camp to bury the treasure near Buford's and sent word he was dying out west. The message could have been picked up and waiting for TB Jr when he arrived. So he could have headed immediately to NOLA.

So...could he have got to NOLA to be with his father when he died as suggested by the probate record.

I've spent years trying to figure out who Thomas Beale really was, the man behind the Beale Papers. After decoding the ciphers, I feel like I've moved on from that pursuit. There are many individuals named Thomas Beale, but there are still three ciphers that I need to focus on. These ciphers might provide hints about the real Beale. However, at this point, they just seem to lead to the graves of men who were lost out west and the site where they mined gold and silver and processed it.

 

[johnnyrev]

More thoughts...TB Sr realizes he's dying and wants to tell his son.
If TB Jr is the same TB in the story who stayed the winter in Lynchburg, his son would not be in NOLA so he would have send word somehow...but where?
Lynchburg? Botetourt county, VA? St Louis? The secret mine north of Santa Fe?

If TB Sr sent word anywhere other than the mine, TB Jr would never get word.

To send word out west would take longer than the trip made by TB Jr since it would have been be sent to a location and wait for someone from the party to pick it up.

So the message would almost have to be sent before TB Jr left Lynchburg in order for it to arrive at the camp when TB Jr arrives in the summer of 1820.

It is possible that TB Sr didn't know his son left camp to bury the treasure near Buford's and sent word he was dying out west. The message could have been picked up and waiting for TB Jr when he arrived. So he could have headed immediately to NOLA.

So...could he have got to NOLA to be with his father when he died as suggested by the probate record.

Captain Thomas Beale was reported to have attended the christening of Octavine Rosalie Beale in 1821 at a Catholic church, as both Celest Beale and Captain Thomas Beale were Catholics. This raises the question of why Captain Thomas Beale would be buried in a Protestant graveyard. Additionally, the newspaper only mentioned that Thomas Beale died in September 1820. Furthermore, Thom Beale, the Register of Wills, was no longer serving in that capacity at the time. Did you know that James Beale, who was born in 1820, is the one referenced in the paperwork stating that Captain Thomas Beale died in 1818? Here’s an interesting fact: Celest Beale was the daughter of Carlos de Grand Pré, a Catholic who was baptized in 1745. 1792 served as the Governor of West Florida. I opened Pandora's Box years ago with this information, but it was never intended to suggest that Captain Thomas Beale was the individual behind the Beale Papers. He was the only one left on my list after ruling out all the others. I did not have definitive evidence to rule him out as the person who was not involved. His wife, Celest, was trained as a lawyer in French law. She had judges in Louisiana doing backflips.

 

[johnnyrev]

Thom Beale Register of Wills

 

[chalkoutline]

I've spent years trying to figure out who Thomas Beale really was, the man behind the Beale Papers. After decoding the ciphers, I feel like I've moved on from that pursuit. There are many individuals named Thomas Beale, but there are still three ciphers that I need to focus on. These ciphers might provide hints about the real Beale. However, at this point, they just seem to lead to the graves of men who were lost out west and the site where they mined gold and silver and processed it.

I took a different approach...i focused on Robert Morriss's description that TB registered from Virginia and thought he came from the West of Lynchburg. I then used the 1810 census to determine which Beales matched this criteria.

I attached my worksheet. Please note that Virginia image is used is not from 1810; Virginia was much bigger and included WV.

I only focus on the descendants of Tavenor Beale since they were the only Beales that met Robert Morriss's criteria.
As you know Tavenor Beale has a son Thomas Beale Sr. I never considered him to be the man described in the pamphlet because he would have been 45 at the time of the adventure west.
I focused on his son TB Jr who would have been 25 yrs old.

My reasoning for researching TB Jr was to determine whether the Beale Treasure could be true. I compared TB Jrs timeline using the probate record i posted yesterday with the timeline line of Beale pamphlet.

The area of contention is...the pamphlet places him at the mine in 1820 yet the probate record places him in NOLA.
As I've tried to explain, for this to be correct, TB Jr would have had to arrive at the mine and and immediately leave again to travel to NOLA.
So It is possible but highly unlikely if not improbable.

Since I know TB Jr is a real person that meets the criteria of Robert Morriss's description, I can only assume the travel out west is not real because a person can't be in two places at once.

That does not mean the ciphers are made up. They can be real and provid countless hours of brain teasing entertainment but there will be no treasure at the end; ust the satisfaction of solving a 200 year old cipher.

 

[chalkoutline]

I took a different approach...i focused on Robert Morriss's description that TB registered from Virginia and thought he came from the West of Lynchburg. I then used the 1810 census to determine which Beales matched this criteria.

I attached my worksheet. Please note that Virginia image is used is not from 1810; Virginia was much bigger and included WV.

I only focus on the descendants of Tavenor Beale since they were the only Beales that met Robert Morriss's criteria.
As you know Tavenor Beale has a son Thomas Beale Sr. I never considered him to be the man described in the pamphlet because he would have been 45 at the time of the adventure west.
I focused on his son TB Jr who would have been 25 yrs old.

My reasoning for researching TB Jr was to determine whether the Beale Treasure could be true. I compared TB Jrs timeline using the probate record i posted yesterday with the timeline line of Beale pamphlet.

The area of contention is...the pamphlet places him at the mine in 1820 yet the probate record places him in NOLA.
As I've tried to explain, for this to be correct, TB Jr would have had to arrive at the mine and and immediately leave again to travel to NOLA.
So It is possible but highly unlikely if not improbable.

Since I know TB Jr is a real person that meets the criteria of Robert Morriss's description, I can only assume the travel out west is not real because a person can't be in two places at once.

That does not mean the ciphers are made up. They can be real and provid countless hours of brain teasing entertainment but there will be no treasure at the end; ust the satisfaction of solving a 200 year old cipher.

To this point...i believe the solution to solving the brain teaser rests in the Gillowby strings. Most use these strings to prove the Cipher 1 is made up.

I agree the strings are intentional but that doesn't mean Cipher 1 is made up.
Instead they are clues to crack the next level of the brain teaser challenge placed there by a very clever author.

There is no reason for TB to leave such clues to help someone reverse engineer the location of his treasure so they would only be there to lead the reader the next challenge.

 

[chalkoutline]

To this point...i believe the solution to solving the brain teaser rests in the Gillowby strings. Most use these strings to prove the Cipher 1 is made up.

I agree the strings are intentional but that doesn't mean Cipher 1 is made up.
Instead they are clues to crack the next level of the brain teaser challenge placed there by a very clever author.

There is no reason for TB to leave such clues to help someone reverse engineer the location of his treasure so they would only be there to lead the reader the next challenge.

Since there is a Thomas Jefferson theme throughout the story, Im thinking the Gillowby strings may have something to do with the cipher cylinder invented by Thomas Jefferson in 1797 but haven't figured out how.
If I come up with something I'll re-start my efforts.

Maybe trip to Thomas Jeffersonsl's estate, Poplar Forest outside of Lynchburg would hold a clue.

Or Monticello which has a cipher cylinder

 

[chalkoutline]

Thom Beale Register of Wills

I am using the most common date for TB Sr: September 1820. I believe this date is an estimate based on the 1855 affidavit of September 1818 knowing that the earliest TB Sr could have died is 1820 based on James William Beale's birrth.

If your are correct about Octavias christening in 1821, then the window of probability for TB Jr being in NOLA at the of TB Srs death opens significantly.

According to the attached Octavia was born in 1821 and the Christening in 1822 in Baton Rouge but there are no sources.

Do you have a record of Octavias christening?

 

[chalkoutline]

Captain Thomas Beale was reported to have attended the christening of Octavine Rosalie Beale in 1821 at a Catholic church, as both Celest Beale and Captain Thomas Beale were Catholics. This raises the question of why Captain Thomas Beale would be buried in a Protestant graveyard. Additionally, the newspaper only mentioned that Thomas Beale died in September 1820. Furthermore, Thom Beale, the Register of Wills, was no longer serving in that capacity at the time. Did you know that James Beale, who was born in 1820, is the one referenced in the paperwork stating that Captain Thomas Beale died in 1818? Here’s an interesting fact: Celest Beale was the daughter of Carlos de Grand Pré, a Catholic who was baptized in 1745. 1792 served as the Governor of West Florida. I opened Pandora's Box years ago with this information, but it was never intended to suggest that Captain Thomas Beale was the individual behind the Beale Papers. He was the only one left on my list after ruling out all the others. I did not have definitive evidence to rule him out as the person who was not involved. His wife, Celest, was trained as a lawyer in French law. She had judges in Louisiana doing backflips.

Captain Thomas Beale was reported to have attended the christening of Octavine Rosalie Beale in 1821 at a Catholic church, as both Celest Beale and Captain Thomas Beale were Catholics. This raises the question of why Captain Thomas Beale would be buried in a Protestant graveyard. Additionally, the newspaper only mentioned that Thomas Beale died in September 1820. Furthermore, Thom Beale, the Register of Wills, was no longer serving in that capacity at the time. Did you know that James Beale, who was born in 1820, is the one referenced in the paperwork stating that Captain Thomas Beale died in 1818? Here’s an interesting fact: Celest Beale was the daughter of Carlos de Grand Pré, a Catholic who was baptized in 1745. 1792 served as the Governor of West Florida. I opened Pandora's Box years ago with this information, but it was never intended to suggest that Captain Thomas Beale was the individual behind the Beale Papers. He was the only one left on my list after ruling out all the others. I did not have definitive evidence to rule him out as the person who was not involved. His wife, Celest, was trained as a lawyer in French law. She had judges in Louisiana doing backflips.

According to findagrave, TB Sr is buried in St Louis cemetery 1.

According to Google AI, st louis cemetery 1 originally was a catholic cemetery but with the population explosion following the Louisiana Purchase, the cemetery was opened up to Protestants and blacks.

Although TB Srs wife, Celeste Grand-dupree is buried in Baton Rouge, her mother, Jeannette Glapion-Grand-dupre was buried in St Louis cemetery 1 in 1832.

This all seems to indicates that St Louis Cemetery 1 was not exclusively Protestant but also Catholic.

 

[chalkoutline]

I am using the most common date for TB Sr: September 1820. I believe this date is an estimate based on the 1855 affidavit of September 1818 knowing that the earliest TB Sr could have died is 1820 based on James William Beale's birrth.

If your are correct about Octavias christening in 1821, then the window of probability for TB Jr being in NOLA at the of TB Srs death opens significantly.

According to the attached Octavia was born in 1821 and the Christening in 1822 in Baton Rouge but there are no sources.

Do you have a record of Octavias christening?

I don't need the Christening record. I figured it out.

TB Sr appears in the 1820 census which was taken in August 1820. In that census is Celeste (wife), 2 daughters and 1 son (James William born Jan 1820) along with several servants and slaves.

TB Sr then dies in September 1820.
Octavine is born 6 may 1821. If you count back, she was conceived in August 1820 before TB passed.

His wife Celeste moves to baton rouge where Octavine is Christened in 1822.

According to Wikitree, the newspaper posts for Thomas Beale Register of Wills stop in 1820 so based on this info there are only 2 TBs in New Orleans...Sr and Jr.

 

[johnnyrev]

According to findagrave, TB Sr is buried in St Louis cemetery 1.

According to Google AI, st louis cemetery 1 originally was a catholic cemetery but with the population explosion following the Louisiana Purchase, the cemetery was opened up to Protestants and blacks.

Although TB Srs wife, Celeste Grand-dupree is buried in Baton Rouge, her mother, Jeannette Glapion-Grand-dupre was buried in St Louis cemetery 1 in 1832.

This all seems to indicates that St Louis Cemetery 1 was not exclusively Protestant but also Catholic.

I’ve been there and done that. There is no Beale grave site in that graveyard. It is a Catholic cemetery, and there used to be a small section in the back for Protestants, but that is no longer there. Is Celeste Grand-Dupree buried in Baton Rouge? I’ve searched all over this town and have only found her brother, who I believe is buried at St. John’s in Brusly, LA.

 

[chalkoutline]

I’ve been there and done that. There is no Beale grave site in that graveyard. It is a Catholic cemetery, and there used to be a small section in the back for Protestants, but that is no longer there. Is Celeste Grand-Dupree buried in Baton Rouge? I’ve searched all over this town and have only found her brother, who I believe is buried at St. John’s in Brusly, LA.

According to wikitree she is in Baton Rouge

 

[johnnyrev]

According to wikitree she is in Baton Rouge

I would have to check with the Catholic Archdiocese in Baton Rouge, as they would know where she was buried.

 

[johnnyrev]

The most notable alteration in the deciphered text from the Declaration of Independence appears in the line: "The first deposit consisted of one thousand and fourteen pounds of gold and three thousand eight hundred and twelve pounds of silver deposited" (1885). This line is originally expressed as: "The first deposit consisted of ten hundred and fourteen pounds of gold and thirty-eight hundred and twelve pounds of silver deposited" (1821). The revision of this sentence for the 1885 audience effectively illustrates how the English language had evolved since 1820. In 1820, "ten hundred pounds" was commonly used to describe the weight of items, whereas "one thousand pounds" referred to British Sterling monetary value. At that time, the British pound was still in use. By 1885, however, the term "pound" was no longer employed to reference currency in the United States. Thus, the phrase "one thousand and fourteen pounds" in relation to weight would be appropriate in 1885 but not in 1820, indicating the age of the ciphertext before its encryption. Furthermore, around 1857, the U.S. discontinued the use of foreign coins, including the Spanish Dollar. The year 1821 is estimated to be when the Beale ciphers were created, as indicated by Beale himself. In this context, the word "SECONT" in "The Secont Deposit" was corrected to "SECOND" in the 1885 printing. The term "secont" has French roots, meaning "second," again pointing to the region west of the United States at that time. Another observation involves the mention of "eighty-eight pounds of silver." The word "POUNDS" does not appear in the original decrypted text and was added for clarity in the 1885 publication. This change further illustrates how the reference to the British Sterling Pound was sidestepped by omitting the term "pound" in Beale’s original decryption. Additionally, the phrase "in exchange for silver to save transportation" should correctly read as "in exchange to save transportation." Here, nine letters were added to the text to include "for silver." The sequence "in exchange for silver" does not appear in the deciphered text; the accurate wording is "in exchange to save transportation" only.

 

[johnnyrev]

The correction of "SECONT" to "SECOND" in the 1885 printing of the Beale Papers likely reflects a typographical or transcriptional error in the original document, as "secont" is not a standard English word but aligns with the French term "secont," meaning "second" in EnglishThis could suggest a linguistic influence from French, which was prominent in regions west of the United States in 1822, such as areas under French or Spanish control (e.g., the Louisiana Territory or parts of the Mississippi Valley). These regions, recently part of the U.S. following the Louisiana Purchase, retained French cultural and linguistic traces.