Mystery Metal Spear and Axe - Can someone ID these?

[Tador]

The spear and axe below were found in the 1970s by my father and uncle on a very remote hilltop in Southern Utah (near Bryce and Zion national parks) hidden under the roots of an old dead tree. Anyone have a guess as to their origin. I'm guessing either a late 19th or early 20th century blacksmith made them (and maybe his kid was out exploring and hid them) or they are Spanish, but I would welcome a more informed answer.

 

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[tamrock]

what are the measurements?

 

[Tador]

I don't have them in front of me to measure but I would guess about eight or nine inches long each.

 

[Tador]

Here they are in with some other junk to give some context for the size.

 

[Tador]

One more close-up of the other side to help identify these. I wonder if the greenish patina could mean there's copper in these.

 

[tamrock]

My guess the items are part of a weapon such as a lance or spear. It to me doesn't have a look of being Spanish or made for military use, such as what the Mexican lancers would have used during the Mexican-American war . If I was to guess, it was a lance constructed by a 19 century Mexican sheep herder for personal protection and threats to his herd? The lance had been a very widely used weapon in the old west going back to the Spanish conquest. All this is only my assumption as to what you truly have. I did find pleasure and interest in doing a little research on the use of a lance in the early times of the American west, such as the Mexican Ciboleros and some images of early lancers I find interesting. The 2nd fellow on the horse looks like he's out in the middle of southern Utah to me, but who really knows?. https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/poc02

 

[Jason in Enid]

Is that Willie Nelson in the second pic? LOL

 

[Tador]

Thank you

My guess the items are part of a weapon such as a lance or spear. It to me doesn't have a look of being Spanish or made for military use, such as what the Mexican lancers would have used during the Mexican-American war . If I was to guess, it was a lance constructed by a 19 century Mexican sheep herder for personal protection and threats to his herd? The lance had been a very widely used weapon in the old west going back to the Spanish conquest. All this is only my assumption as to what you truly have. I did find pleasure and interest in doing a little research on the use of a lance in the early times of the American west, such as the Mexican Ciboleros and some images of early lancers I find interesting. The 2nd fellow on the horse looks like he's out in the middle of southern Utah to me, but who really knows?. https://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/poc02

Thanks for taking the time to research this Tamrock. Your Mexican sheep herder thought makes sense to me. The weapons do seem to be very crudely made and I know people were grazing sheep in the area in the not too distant past. I still wonder why they were left there?

 

[Oroblanco]

The spear and axe below were found in the 1970s by my father and uncle on a very remote hilltop in Southern Utah (near Bryce and Zion national parks) hidden under the roots of an old dead tree. Anyone have a guess as to their origin. I'm guessing either a late 19th or early 20th century blacksmith made them (and maybe his kid was out exploring and hid them) or they are Spanish, but I would welcome a more informed answer.

View attachment 1007362

The spear head is a type made for hunting, not defense, as it is barbed; Spanish and Mexican lances were leaf-shaped so that you could withdraw it easily. There have been barbed spear heads for warfare too, intending to be thrown and "stick" in the enemy so that is not a hard/fast rule.

Have you tested them with a magnet, to see if they are iron?
Oroblanco

 

[Tador]

The spear head is a type made for hunting, not defense, as it is barbed; Spanish and Mexican lances were leaf-shaped so that you could withdraw it easily. There have been barbed spear heads for warfare too, intending to be thrown and "stick" in the enemy so that is not a hard/fast rule.

Have you tested them with a magnet, to see if they are iron?
Oroblanco

I haven't had the chance test with a magnet, but I'll do that the next chance I get.

 

[gazmuth]

The bottom one reminds me of the working end of a harrow used for working the dirt behind a garden plow, and the top one reminds me of the wedge that my grandfather used to have me use to spit the logs for the wood stove. I have no clue, that is just what they look like to me. Neat finds though still!

 

[Roger Mn.]

Antique Garden Plow Blades | eBay

gazmuth guessed it as hand plow. I would say both are for a hand plow.

 

[augoldminer]

iron in runoff from copper mines often shows greenish patina.

in the old copper mines the acid copper laden mine water will replace iron or steel with copper.

i have a slice of old mine rail that half the iron is gone and replaced with copper.

 

[Red James Cash]

It also has a crude way of attaching to the spear shaft,much like Native American spear heads.Usually its a socket mount set up that the spear head has.