MYSTERY ROCK

[Sodabob]

Howdy

I haven't been around for a while and had to re-register with a different name. Anyway, I'm working on a real mystery and could use some help. If I can remember how to post pictures, please notice the carved images in what locals call "The Mystery Rock." I have been asked by our local Historical Society / Museum to research it, and depending on the results here, might write an article for them in their newsletter. The rock has already been examined by a group of Archaeologist but they are baffled as to what the carvings might be or represent. The only thing they determined with any certainty is that the carvings were done with some type of steel tool such as a chisel. As for the date it was carved, they are baffled about that as well. Its located in a brushy area about 100 feet away from an old State highway and about 100 yards from an old Railroad line that was built in 1916. In the area there is also an old U.S. military encampment that was built in 1940-41 and sold to the County around 1947-48. The two most prominent theories are ...

1. The rock was carved by a Railroad worker
2. The rock was carved by a member of the Military

But regardless of who carved it or when, we are trying to determine what the carvings might be or represent? The archaeologist said they don't recognize the pattern and are pretty sure they are not Aztec or anything like that, and that they might be random that only the "carver" knows the meaning of.

If you have any theories or recognize the pattern as something specific, please let me know and I will pass the information on to the Historical Society. The rock is located about 50 miles east of San Diego along old Highway 94.

Thanks in advance to those who participate in possibly solving a mystery that has had locals baffled for several years.

Sodabob ... a.k.a. Sodabottlebob and Sodapopbob


The rock is about 6 feet long, 3 feet wide, and about 2 feet thick. Most of the carving are on one end of the rock but in some places continue over the side. The local museum has permits to move it next Spring but will need a backhoe to lift and transport it.

 

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[Sodabob]

Well Sodabob
With over 200 posts I think you and everyone else that contributated here have given it a good run for the money.
I hope somewhere in the near future you can find the ID of when, how and why this rock was done.

HD

Thanks - Mucho appreciated

Actually, I just heard from the California Lichen Society I contacted a few weeks ago and the individual who contacted me gave me a brief tutor on how to date the growth rate of certain lichens. But before going into the details it involves I need to pay another visit to the Mystery Rock first and perform a closer examination of the lichen. Just as soon as I do that I will be sure to share the results - which will probably be about a week from now. According to my CLS contact I should be able to date the lichen on the Mystery Rock to within five years. So all I can say at the moment is that I'm keeping my fingers crossed ...

 

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[Sodabob]

Even though I threw in the towel just four days ago and was ready to call it quits, something has come to my attention since then that I feel is worth consideration that might explain the Y symbol/shape. I fully acknowledge that what follows is not a perfect match, but its close enough for me to take a closer look at just in case there is a connection. It involves what was typically referred to as a Train order delivery fork. Even though I am still researching this, hopefully the attached images will give you some idea why it sparked my interest and thought it was worth sharing.

[ From a 1933 issue of Popular Mechanics magazine ]




[ Miscellaneous Text ]






[ Man holding train order fork ]



[ Example of train order fork with paper message/order attached to string ]




[ Mystery Rock - Notice the square (Train Order? / Message?) above the Y symbol ]





?

 

[Organicseekers]

Been following this with much interest but came across the Maze Rock in Arizona and noticed the "Y" part that has some similarities to the "Y" on your rock.

 

[Sodabob]

Os

Very interesting. There is a similar petroglyph located in Riverside County that is called the "Hemet Maze Stone." Riverside County connects to and is north of San Diego County. But it doesn't have any Y symbols. The swastika in the lower left corner is said to have been added by a vandal and was not part of the original design.

 

[Sodabob]

Os

You have probably already seen this, but thought I'd share it for others to see. The link is to your Arizona Maze Rock and includes what appears to be pictures of every petroglyph on the rock ...


Maze Rock, AZ

 

[Sodabob]

Even though I have not conducted the observation the individual from the California Lichen Society suggested I do, I thought this would be a good time to share his instructions as to how to go about it. He said ...

Copy/Pasted

"Lichenometry is the study of lichen growth over time. What you need to do is to find the same lichen growing on something that you know the date of. For example, if you know the date that a tombstone, bridge stone, other monument was put into the environment and you have a lichen growing on it, then you can extrapolate a growth rate. For example, if a clean piece of granite was put outside in 2009 and you looked at it in 2019 and a lichen growing was exactly 10 mm in radius, then the growth rate is 1 mm per year. If your lichen in question (same species and in the same climate) was 5 mm in radius, you could guess that it was about 5 years old."


Footnote: He didn't say anything about 50 or 100 year old lichens, but based on what he did say, I'm assuming that a 50 year old lichen has a radius of 50 MM and a 100 year old lichen has a radius of 100 MM. The basic idea seems to be that lichens grow at the rate of about 1 MM per year. I'm not sure yet, but I'm hoping the concrete foundation or granite rocks associated with the nearby Railroad bridge, which is date stamped with 1915, has some lichen on it. The first chance I get I'm going down there and check it out - but I need to acquire a millimeter measuring device before I do. Once I complete the experiment I will post the results no matter what they may or may not reveal.

 

[Sodabob]

P.S.

The nearest historic cemetery in the area (with headstones) is located about three miles east of the Mystery Rock. And even though I have been there a few times over the years, I wasn't looking for any Lichen at the time. Nor do I know if any of the dated headstones even have Lichen on them. Because the cemetery is now on private property, I need to get permission first in order to visit it - which I can get if necessary, but I want to check out the 1915 bridge first. The attached pics are of the Campo cemetery, which was restored by the local Historical Society about a year ago.



I grew up and went to school with descendants of the McCain family




Footnote: Because the cemetery is located in a cow pasture and not along a creek like the Mystery Rock is, I don't know if it qualifies as the same type of environment that the individual from the California Lichen Society spoke of.

 

[HuntinDog]

The cemetery mostlikly would not be a good judge for age of lichens.
The headstones were probably cleaned for the first 20 to 30 years by decendents.
The bridge I would think will be your best gage. No one cleans them.

Also the CLS

individual was just using the measurements as an example and it doesn't have to be in MM.
Lichens grow at different rates depending on their environment.

So measurement multiple patches of lichens on the bridge that are similar to the ones on the rock and average their size, then compare that to the mystery rock lichens.

Good luck... I await your findings...
​

 

[Sodabob]

The following experiment isn't very scientific but will suffice until I visit the Mystery Rock again. (I'd go down there today but its pouring rain). The attached image is of the Mystery Rock that I took a couple of weeks ago. Notice the two yellow circles. The circle in the center is a 25-cent piece (quarter) that I placed on the rock. The other circle is of one of the Lichens growing on the rock.

1. A quarter has a radius of about 2.5 millimeters
2. The lichen I circled has a radius of about 3.0 millimeters
3. According to an Online calculator I used, 3.0 millimeters equals a circumference of 18.8571 millimeters
4. According to the California Lichen Society formula, a circumference of 18.8571 millimeters equals that of about a 20 year growth rate.

I'm okay with that if its accurate, but will have to examine the rock closer and take some additional measurements to even try and make sense of things. Based on this so called formula, a lichen would need to have a radius of about 8 millimeters to equal 50 years.

 

[Sodabob]

The cemetery mostlikly would not be a good judge for age of lichens.
The headstones were probably cleaned for the first 20 to 30 years by decendents.
The bridge I would think will be your best gage. No one cleans them.

Also the CLS

individual was just using the measurements as an example and it doesn't have to be in MM.
Lichens grow at different rates depending on their environment.

So measurement multiple patches of lichens on the bridge that are similar to the ones on the rock and average their size, then compare that to the mystery rock lichens.

Good luck... I await your findings...
​

HD

Thanks - After I visit the rock again and take some measurements of the various solo lichens and patches of lichens we can all try and figure it out together. I agree about the headstones not only because they could have been cleaned but also because of the different environment. So I'm going to stick with the 1915 bridge for now because I seem to recall the lower portion of it was built with large granite rocks. I'm attaching the only picture of it that I currently have.

 

[Sodabob]

This is especially for the members who asked me to visit Boulder Park in Jacumba. I went out there with my daughter last Sunday. The guy who owns all 93 acres, which include boulder park and the tower, told me that the guy who carved the boulders in the 1930s used hand tools and not power tools to create the sculptures. He also told me that the only Native American petroglyphs in the area were outside the property and about 1/2 mile away - which we did no go to because it requires a vigorous hike to get to. We spent a couple of hours at the tower and boulder park but did not see anything to suggest it had any connection with the Mystery Rock. Speaking of mysteries, I wonder who that goofy looking guy is in the attached picture? The wind was blowing and it was about 40' degrees at the time and both of us froze our you-know-what's off.

 

[Sodabob]

If its not raining this afternoon I plan to visit the Mystery Rock and check the lichen on it as well as the lichen on the 1915 bridge. I also want to check out the grinding holes rock again for some things I overlooked the first time I was there. For some unexplainable reason I keep thinking there is a connection between the two rocks. Notice the attached pics and you will see why I say that ...

 

[Sodabob]

BRIDGE


I explored the entire vicinity of the Mystery Rock today under partly cloudy skies and a comfortable 60' degrees. I spent three hours in the area examining everything I could find in the way of Lichen. I started at the 1915 railroad bridge and was disappointed to discover that the type of Lichen I was looking for apparently does not grow on concrete. The bridge is about 100 feet long and spans the creek flowing under it. The span is supported on both sides by a two-foot-thick and twenty-foot-high concrete foundation with massive steel beams extending from one side to the other. But other than a few patches of moss here and there, the bridge itself is void of any Lichen. The only Lichen in and around the bridge is on the huge granite rocks that are everywhere and on some of the smaller granite rocks that are randomly located in the vicinity. As you see in one of the pics below, the Lichen on the smaller rocks near the bridge grows in patches and could have taken years to develop. But what I don't know is if the Lichen on the smaller rocks grew before or after they were placed near the bridge. Not to mention being able to date them considering that most of the Lichen patches are as big as my hand or larger. But don't despair because there is good news down the road. (sort of)

Creek bed with bridge to the north




Lichen on granite rock next to bridge concrete. The moss you see on top of the concrete has undoubtedly been walked on over the years and probably not a good gauge of growth.




( More to follow )

 

[Sodabob]

MYSTERY ROCK

Even though I have visited the rock numerous times, today was the first time I fully realized there is little or no Lichen on or in the carved out areas. As you will see, there is lots of Lichen on the sides of the rock and on top of it where there is no carving, but none whatsoever on the portion of the rock where the design is carved. The only rational possibility I can come up with to explain the lack of Lichen on the carved area is that it was either scraped off prior to the design being carved or occurred during the carving process itself. But whatever the explanation, there is definitely no Lichen in the carved out grooves themselves - and I am of the opinion there should be if the carving was done many, many years ago. I will expound on this more a little farther down the road.

Top - Other than for a few microscopic patches, 99% of the Lichen is growing below the red line

View attachment 1690594


Side - Lots of Lichen from one end to the other

View attachment 1690596

 

[Sodabob]

GRINDING HOLES

The line of sight in this pic goes directly over the Mystery Rock about 200 yards in the distance

View attachment 1690598


Grinding holes after I scooped out the water and sand

View attachment 1690599

 

[Sodabob]

DOWN THE ROAD

This is likely the best I will be able to come up with regarding my limited abilities to date any Lichen in the area - and even it is questionable. This particular rock is located on the shoulder of the old highway. What you are seeing is half of a drill hole that remained exposed after the rest of the rock was dynamited away. There are lots of these half holes in the area. Notice in the second image (close up) where Lichen is growing inside of the hole. I don't know the exact dates when the dynamiting was done, but it is safe to say it was before 1925. I think its also safe to say that when the rock was blasted away there was no Lichen on it and that it was raw granite. Hence, it is my belief the Lichen you see on the rock and in the drill hole grew there after the blasting occurred and is approximately 95 years old. But if this is even close to being accurate, how do we explain the existence of Lichen inside the drill hole but not inside the carved out grooves on the Mystery Rock? Especially if the Mystery Rock was carved many, many years ago?

Drill hole in this pic is about four feet long

View attachment 1690625

Portion of drill hole in this pic is about one foot long

View attachment 1690628

 

[Sodabob]

Did you notice the Y shaped railroad sign in the distance of this pic of the grinding holes?

View attachment 1690744

View attachment 1690747


Footnote: When I post pics like this its a sign of desperation and probably time to call it quits again.

 

[Sodabob]

Notice the area on the Mystery Rock with the red circle




Here's a close up of the same area. Notice the Moss and two types of Lichen. When I originally contacted the California Lichen Society I sent them pictures of the greenish Lichen and assume the dating formula the individual sent me pertained to that greenish Lichen. The patch in this pic is about the size of a penny and has a radius of about 2 millimeters. According to the calculating formula, 2 millimeters equals a circumference of 12.5715 millimeters. Which apparently equals about 15 years? Notice the penny size patch is on the shoulder of the carved groove but not inside it. The small patch of greenish Lichen is just about the only one on the carved area of the rock. And because its so close to the carved groove, I suspect it grew there after the design was carved. As far as the moss is concerned, it appears to grow only where rain water was trapped. The same type of moss is growing around the Y shape, especially at the bottom of the long end where it trickles down and gets trapped in the lower circle. I do not know of a formula for dating moss, but believe it grows much faster than Lichen and is likely not a good gauge for dating the carving.

 

[Sodabob]

Back to the Native American grinding holes for a moment and a closer look at the Lichen growing on it. The red ruler I placed in one of the holes is 6" inches long which equals 15 millimeters. Notice the patch of Lichen that my left foot is on. The patch averages a radius of about 6" inches / 15 millimeters. According to the calculating formula, 15 millimeters equals a circumference of 94.2857 millimeters, which translates to about 100 years. Which makes sense to me and might even be older than that?

 

[Sodabob]

All Things Considered

Even though I can't say the following is based on factual evidence (because the evidence presented thus far is questionable at best) I'm still of the opinion that the carving on the Mystery Rock is no more than 50 years old and possibly no more than 25 years old. The main reason I say this is because I'm still having a difficult time believing if the carving on the rock was there for years and years that someone would have noticed it a long time ago, and that they would have shared their discovery with others. In my opinion its just too close to the community of Campo and too close to the old highway (about 100 feet away) for someone not to have stumbled onto it many years ago. But as it stands now, no one knew about the rock until about six years ago. Even though I consider myself an open minded person, at this juncture it would take some pretty substantial evidence to convince me the carving on the rock is more than about 25 years old - and possibly even less than that. Of course I can't prove my opinion, but even with that said I intend to stand by it until such time that someone or some thing presents itself to dispute my opinion. Dare I say that's my story and I'm sticking to it?