MYSTERY ROCK

[Sodabob]

Howdy

I haven't been around for a while and had to re-register with a different name. Anyway, I'm working on a real mystery and could use some help. If I can remember how to post pictures, please notice the carved images in what locals call "The Mystery Rock." I have been asked by our local Historical Society / Museum to research it, and depending on the results here, might write an article for them in their newsletter. The rock has already been examined by a group of Archaeologist but they are baffled as to what the carvings might be or represent. The only thing they determined with any certainty is that the carvings were done with some type of steel tool such as a chisel. As for the date it was carved, they are baffled about that as well. Its located in a brushy area about 100 feet away from an old State highway and about 100 yards from an old Railroad line that was built in 1916. In the area there is also an old U.S. military encampment that was built in 1940-41 and sold to the County around 1947-48. The two most prominent theories are ...

1. The rock was carved by a Railroad worker
2. The rock was carved by a member of the Military

But regardless of who carved it or when, we are trying to determine what the carvings might be or represent? The archaeologist said they don't recognize the pattern and are pretty sure they are not Aztec or anything like that, and that they might be random that only the "carver" knows the meaning of.

If you have any theories or recognize the pattern as something specific, please let me know and I will pass the information on to the Historical Society. The rock is located about 50 miles east of San Diego along old Highway 94.

Thanks in advance to those who participate in possibly solving a mystery that has had locals baffled for several years.

Sodabob ... a.k.a. Sodabottlebob and Sodapopbob


The rock is about 6 feet long, 3 feet wide, and about 2 feet thick. Most of the carving are on one end of the rock but in some places continue over the side. The local museum has permits to move it next Spring but will need a backhoe to lift and transport it.

 

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[Sodabob]

P.S.

I haven't forgotten about the experiment I intend to perform with the sharpened railroad spike and will conduct that within the next few days. I will be sure and post the results when I'm done. In the meantime, here's the exact locations of the Mystery Rock and the Native American grinding holes. If anyone who sees this visits the area, please take pictures only and leave nothing but foot prints - Thanks

 

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[Sodabob]

Since the cat's out of the bag, here's another map of the area to show the proximity of the Mystery Rock to the community of Campo. The yellow X marks the spot. The red pin marks the post office. The population of Campo in 1870 was about 400. The current population is about 3,000. Like I have been saying, the Mystery Rock is in an open area and easy to find and no more than a quarter-mile west of the intersection of the old highway and the new highway. Its close proximity to the community of Campo is why I'm having a difficult time believing that no one knew of its existence until six years ago.

 

[Sodabob]

Railroad Spike Experiment

I won't be necessary to post before and after pictures of the experiment because I can more easily sum up the results in just two words ...

No Way!

I have about a dozen granite boulders in my back yard of varying degrees of hardness that range from crumbly to hard-as-steel. I experimented on a half-dozen of them and it didn't take very long to discover that a sharpened railroad spike barely scratched the hard-as-steel rocks. The results were the same when I used a sharpened cold chisel. After finding what I call a Goldilocks rock (not too hard and not too soft but just right) I attempted to chisel simple straight lines but in every instance the results were the same in that flakes/chunks of granite kept breaking away from the lines, creating a total mess. I finally gave up the experiment and decided to visit the Mystery Rock again for an even closer examination of the carving than I have done in the past to try and determine if there was something I might have overlooked. What jumped out at me this time was the fact there are literally no flakes/chunks of granite missing anywhere on the design. Plus, the depth of the grooves are consistently the same in just about every instance and are relatively smooth to the touch. All things considered, I am now convinced the carving on the Mystery Rock was not done with either a sharpened railroad spike nor a chisel of any type. In fact, I no longer believe it was done with a router either. So what does that leave that could have achieved such an intricate and controlled pattern on the rock that didn't cause flakes/chunks of granite to break away from the carving?

A Dremel

Even though I have not experimented with a Dremel yet (but intend to) I have reason to believe the results will be more than satisfactory. I will even take this a step further and go out on a limb by saying it wouldn't surprise me if the Dremel used was battery operated. Part of my thinking is that its easy to romanticize the rock as having been carved eons ago by an indigenous people and that the design is some type of celestial message. But when it comes down to examining the evidence, theories of that type just don't hold water, at least not for me. I'm more inclined to accept something along the lines of Occam's Razor in that the simplest answer is likely the right answer.

So, with all of the above said, I researched the history of Dremels, as well as the history of cordless, battery operated tools, and discovered the following ...

Dremel




Cordless / Battery Operated Hand Tools





With Occam's Razor in mind, the bottom line for me is that the Mystery Rock was likely created no more than 25 years ago, and possibly less that 15 years ago by someone using a cordless Dremel who was skilled and/or talented enough to create the design with relative ease. If in doubt of my inconclusive conclusion, all I can suggest is to perform your own experiments with various chisels and I think you might agree there is no way that such an intricate design can be achieved with those types of tools on a granite rock.

But there is still one aspect that has not been addressed yet as far as dating the carving is concerned; which involves patina. All you have to do is look at any one of the numerous pictures of the rock I have posted and you should be able to notice that the patina in the carved grooves and the patina on the rock's surface are the same. When it was originally carved the grooves were no doubt lighter in color and developed a patina over time. But just how long it takes for that patina to develop, I don't know just yet but will try and find out.

(To be continued)

 

[Icewing]

Scott Wolter would know.

 

[Sodabob]

Scott Wolter would know.

Iw

Thanks for the suggestion but unfortunately I have never heard of Scott Wolter. I received a PM from another member suggesting I contact an individual named Wayne May, but I don't know who that is either. If you and/or the member who sent me the PM has any contact information for those individuals, please post it here, or if you prefer, send it to me via a PM.

Thanks

 

[Sodabob]

P.S.

I contacted the individual from the California Lichen Society again and along with sending him a picture of the Mystery Rock, asked him what he knew about patinas and how to date them. I will let you know when I hear back from him.

 

[Plug N Play]

Dremels would take forever and cost a fortune in worn out wheels.
Thinking this was something much more powerful (industrial).

ATTACH=CONFIG]1691175[/ATTACH]

 

[Sodabob]

Dremels would take forever and cost a fortune in worn out wheels.
Thinking this was something much more powerful (industrial).

ATTACH=CONFIG]1691175[/ATTACH]

Maybe - but please check out the 'tight' corners that seem to me as having been done with a much smaller tool. As far as a Dremels wearing out, there are carbide steel bits for them that could easily have been replaced as needed - if needed.

 

[Plug N Play]

Maybe - but please check out the 'tight' corners that seem to me as having been done with a much smaller tool. As far as a Dremels wearing out, there are carbide steel bits for them that could easily have been replaced as needed - if needed.

You would need a case, or cases, of bits, carbide or diamond ... it wouldn't make sense ... it would take forever.

 

[Sodabob]

You would need a case, or cases, of bits, carbide or diamond ... it wouldn't make sense ... it would take forever.

With all due respect, are you assuming they would wear out and take forever or have you personally used them on granite rocks and know the results first hand?

 

[unclemac]

...and yet...Egyptians could work granite...without power tools...

https://www.google.com/search?q=egy...hAhWMsZ4KHWI_DbQQsAR6BAgAEAE&biw=1368&bih=770

 

[Sodabob]

Why do they make Dremel kits with carbide and diamond bits for sculpting stone if they don't work and just wear out?

https://www.amazon.com/Carving-Expe...d=1552673998&s=gateway&sr=8-1&tag=googhydr-20

 

[Dzrt1st]

Could have been sandblasted on site like this-

 

[Sodabob]

D1

Thanks - Mucho interesting and well worth considering. I never even thought of such a possibility.

 

[Sodabob]

But I'm definitely going to experiment with a professional grade Dremel kit if I don't have to pay a fortune for one or can find someone who can loan me theirs. I'm seeing a lot of stuff like what's in this attachment and have high hopes of success (maybe - time will tell)

 

[Sodabob]

I'm also going to ask around and see if I can find a contractor or someone who has one of these portable pneumatic generators. And if I can't find a pneumatic type, I suppose a portable electric generator will work just as well. But first I'm going to try a cordless Dremel with carbide or diamond bits and see how well that works.

 

[Dzrt1st]

I'm also going to ask around and see if I can find a contractor or someone who has one of these portable pneumatic generators. And if I can't find a pneumatic type, I suppose a portable electric generator will work just as well. But first I'm going to try a cordless Dremel with carbide or diamond bits and see how well that works.

View attachment 1691219

That IS a portable electric generator in your pic. The brand name is Chicago "Pneumatic". I don't think you'll find a "pneumatic type" (never heard of one).

 

[Plug N Play]

Granite ... an hour and a half

 

[Madmox]

Railroad Spike Experiment

I won't be necessary to post before and after pictures of the experiment because I can more easily sum up the results in just two words ...

No Way!

I have about a dozen granite boulders in my back yard of varying degrees of hardness that range from crumbly to hard-as-steel. I experimented on a half-dozen of them and it didn't take very long to discover that a sharpened railroad spike barely scratched the hard-as-steel rocks. The results were the same when I used a sharpened cold chisel. After finding what I call a Goldilocks rock (not too hard and not too soft but just right) I attempted to chisel simple straight lines but in every instance the results were the same in that flakes/chunks of granite kept breaking away from the lines, creating a total mess. I finally gave up the experiment and decided to visit the Mystery Rock again for an even closer examination of the carving than I have done in the past to try and determine if there was something I might have overlooked. What jumped out at me this time was the fact there are literally no flakes/chunks of granite missing anywhere on the design. Plus, the depth of the grooves are consistently the same in just about every instance and are relatively smooth to the touch. All things considered, I am now convinced the carving on the Mystery Rock was not done with either a sharpened railroad spike nor a chisel of any type. In fact, I no longer believe it was done with a router either. So what does that leave that could have achieved such an intricate and controlled pattern on the rock that didn't cause flakes/chunks of granite to break away from the carving?

A Dremel

Even though I have not experimented with a Dremel yet (but intend to) I have reason to believe the results will be more than satisfactory. I will even take this a step further and go out on a limb by saying it wouldn't surprise me if the Dremel used was battery operated. Part of my thinking is that its easy to romanticize the rock as having been carved eons ago by an indigenous people and that the design is some type of celestial message. But when it comes down to examining the evidence, theories of that type just don't hold water, at least not for me. I'm more inclined to accept something along the lines of Occam's Razor in that the simplest answer is likely the right answer.

So, with all of the above said, I researched the history of Dremels, as well as the history of cordless, battery operated tools, and discovered the following ...

Dremel

View attachment 1691142


Cordless / Battery Operated Hand Tools


View attachment 1691143


With Occam's Razor in mind, the bottom line for me is that the Mystery Rock was likely created no more than 25 years ago, and possibly less that 15 years ago by someone using a cordless Dremel who was skilled and/or talented enough to create the design with relative ease. If in doubt of my inconclusive conclusion, all I can suggest is to perform your own experiments with various chisels and I think you might agree there is no way that such an intricate design can be achieved with those types of tools on a granite rock.

But there is still one aspect that has not been addressed yet as far as dating the carving is concerned; which involves patina. All you have to do is look at any one of the numerous pictures of the rock I have posted and you should be able to notice that the patina in the carved grooves and the patina on the rock's surface are the same. When it was originally carved the grooves were no doubt lighter in color and developed a patina over time. But just how long it takes for that patina to develop, I don't know just yet but will try and find out.

(To be continued)

I can already tell I am going to regret even getting involved with this conversation but Occam’s razor would say that it was probably carved 100 years ago, like the museum said. Probably by the railroad folks and probably with a chisel. Humans have been cutting, shaping, carving, hewing, engraving granite since the dawn of time and doing it very precisely with all kinds of rudimentary tools. Look a toothed chisels or carbide chisels. They are specifically made for that kind of work. Hell. Go to your local cemetery and look in the older sections. You will probably see countless carved granite stones. And guess what.... all done by chisel. All it takes is training. In the case of your rock, You can bet those railroad men could drill a piece of granite with a chisel. Probably a hell of a lot faster than you think. Technique is everything and tunneling through a mountain will give you all the experience you could ever want.

So to recap... you have men with the training, experience, skill set, and tools at hand to cut that rock in that location in the time period it was said to be cut. Seems like a slam dunk to me. A dremel makes no sense, that much stock removal would burn a dremel out in no time. Heavy pneumatic equipment takes heavier support equipment. Not to mention a recent cutting with a power tool would be fairly obvious. There would be almost no weathering. Even in a decade you wouldn’t see much erosion. That’s it. That’s all I’ve got. Railroad men with a chisel.

 

[Plug N Play]

Air supply would be easy if one was so inclined.



Way too much material to remove with Dremel bits.
The rock I carved was scaled to the size of Dremel work.
Only used two bits ... completely wore out the larger diamond bit ... it's worn down to steel and wants to make sparks.
The smaller bit has a little life left, but the sharpness of its edge is gone.

You'd go through a lot of bits ... lots ... to cut the grooves on the large rock.
The tools need to scale with the amount of rock to be removed and the Dremel is the right tool for small work, not something this large.