name of the captain of conception 1715 fleet?

[buccaneer1961]

does anybody know where I can find the name of the captain of that ship? or what it is?

 

[Au_Dreamers]

This ship was listed as the Patache of the Squadron and her full name was Nuestra Senora de la Concepcion, San Joseph y San Francisco.

Her captain was Diego Pablo Soliar and the owner was Antonio de Echeverz.

She was built in the Indies of 265 tons (burden).
She carried 32 iron cannon: 18 ten pounders, 10 six pounders and 4 four pounders.

 

[buccaneer1961]

are you a professor? you seem to be very educated on this subject or this 1715 fleet! well done! ive a question.....heartland treasure quest,in the past off cape Canaveral found silver platters and there was a name of a lady on them,the title dona (pronounced donya...meaning governess or the like was on them) any idea who she was? some say the wife of the captain of the conception...james sinclare doing a application in the past for the permited area said a lady of nobility but never said it was the captains wife nor hinted to it...I wonder where the rumor got started

 

[buccaneer1961]

see james Sinclair research design....page 5 as you scroll down to introduction he mentions it but dosent say who that lady is...its half way down...this is all public info anybody can get at fbar

https://www.scribd.com/doc/29933258...-Quest-Exploration-Permit-Application-Area-A2

 

[Booty Salvage]

Chris is just an educated contributor. One of the best. Everyone is here to learn. It's important the information comes from informed sources.

 

[grossmusic]

According to my research, the Tierra Firme flotilla's Concepcion was captained by Don Antonio's son Manuel.

Concepción: Nuestra Señora de Concepción, San Joseph y San Francisco
Captain Don Manuel de Echeverz; Master Diego Pablo Soliar
Manuel & his brother Miguel died in the hurricane, presumably both on this vessel (Miguel could have been on any of them)

Meanwhile, Urca de Lima was also called Concepcion.
REFUERZO
FLOTA - Ubilla
Urca de Lima ("ship of Lima"): Santissima Trinidad y Nuestra Señora de la Concepcion
Dutch cargo frigate, 350 tons, 20 guns, designed with flat bottom for shallow draught

 

[Au_Dreamers]

You've done heaps more research into the Echeverz family than most people!
I always believed his son to be an honorary title...

 

[buccaneer1961]

I ask because rumors were started concerning the silver platters found off cape Canaveral that the name on those were the name of the captains wife...but heartland treasure quest...the company that found them had this to say about them...heres a quote:

note they didn't say it was the name of the captains wife! nor did james Sinclair...any idea what the wife of the conceptions captain was?

Heartland Treasure Quest: This silver platter, discovered on the site number three, bears the name of Doña Juana Isabel de Chabez Espinosa de los Monteros, an uncommon Spanish name specific to a village from the Burgos region in northern Spain, just southwest of the port city of Bilbao. The name is associated with a title awarded by the King of Spain.

 

[buccaneer1961]

I ask because rumors were started concerning the silver platters found off cape Canaveral that the name on those were the name of the captains wife...but heartland treasure quest...the company that found them had this to say about them...heres a quote:

note they didn't say it was the name of the captains wife! nor did james Sinclair...any idea what the wife of the conceptions captain was?

Heartland Treasure Quest: This silver platter, discovered on the site number three, bears the name of Doña Juana Isabel de Chabez Espinosa de los Monteros, an uncommon Spanish name specific to a village from the Burgos region in northern Spain, just southwest of the port city of Bilbao. The name is associated with a title awarded by the King of Spain.

 

[grossmusic]

Very possible that Manuel Echeverz was just called captain. Pedro Echeverz seems to have been an acting captain of his ship, though a young one if so. And he was the eldest (22), so other sons were anywhere from 10 to 21. (Younger children came from a 2nd marriage.)

Dona Juana Isabel sounds very important.

Most of the officers would have come from that Northern region of Spain back then. Echeverz family was from about 50 miles east of Pamplona.

 

[buccaneer1961]

ok...so can it be said as a matter of fact it was the wife of the captain if the conception?

the one touting it has no education,but a monetary reason for making the connection,however the archeologist never said so,nor has fbar,just a pen pusher

 

[ivan salis]

in Spain the title "don" is like "sir" for a knight in England ...dona -- is the official title of the wife of a "don'...ever heard of the quip --"DON GATO" -- meaning ...Mr cat / sir cat ,,,in spanish..due to aloof way cats act

the title "dona" means she is the wife of a "don"..... knight / noble of Spain ...as such she would have been a important VIP type person --likely listed on the vessels records --having a named bit of her personal goods ...could help to positively ID the wrecked vessel..

if a person is listed as being upon a certain vessel ...and you find a named bit of their belongings,,,on a wrecksite ..... you have found a way to id which vessel it was --this is the importance of the named platter...

often in the old days vessels had a "sailing master" who was in charge of the actual sailing of the vessel and a "captian" who said where the vessel would go and was the official in charge of the ships business and cargo

please note that 4 men off the Conceotion were found on the cape area after floating on a hatch cover for 2 days -- so it was well known that it went down in the cape area roughly

in English -- it would be "lady" Juana Isabel of Chabez---from ( Espinosa de los Monteros) a region in Spain -a mountion town in northern Spain known as as Burgos -- from the leon & castile area

please note --in the old days --vessels often had 2 "bosses" one was the sailing master who was in charge of the actual sailing of the vessel --the other was the "captian" who was in charge f the ship business and cargo --the capt could override the sailing master but seldom ever did so --as many captians held honorary titles and did not know much about sailing..

 

[Boatlode]

What leads you to believe the Dona was the captains wife? She could have been an important passenger.

 

[Booty Salvage]

What leads you to believe the Dona was the captains wife? She could have been an important passenger.

Exactly! It's speculation at best. I believe the same way.

 

[buccaneer1961]

this is why....I wont say the name of the company,they are a sub penny stock company that keeps increasing their share structure etc....they want a connection between those silver platters and the captains wife being on those platters,thus the trail of the conception is what they are on! will make the stock price move up,they ...um.the ceo and his lying lawyer keep saying it IS the captains wife however their archeologist,james Sinclair never said that,he only said its a lady of nobility or something like that,that company has been spreading that lie....it keeps the connection ...um...lie going!

 

[buccaneer1961]

me too,for anybody to say it is,especially one that has a monetary intrest in it BEING the captains wife,is a liar

 

[ivan salis]

passenger lists of persons of noble rank on board were kept , as well as a listing of their belongings being carried for customs purposes ... if and I do say if she was listed as a passenger and her platters were listed as cargo -- on the ships second copy "manifest" back in Havana -- then a link could be made about which ship it was .. if not .. who can prove or knows exactly who she was..short of having the family lineage reports ..stating that she died upon this vessel on this date?

 

[grossmusic]

There are passenger lists to be found if you dig deep enough. I believe I found at least 2 or 3 in archives which list survivors & souls lost.

Only thing I can find in my files right now is a reprint of a few reference pages from an "Expediente" microfilm of Ubilla's fleet. In Seville, the record number is 1CZ651-1033.AGI, 382pp, published 1714-1717
annotation: "Expediente concerning the loss of thousands of pesos...when the fleet under the command of...Ubilla was wrecked off Cape Canaveral. Includes ship manifests, receipts and other lists of exact items on board and their owners. (Many of the pages are badly damaged, wormeaten)"

Among names listed are "Francisco de Espinosa" & a "capitan Chavez" - but these are just names listed. No info about them. There are thousands of pages in this case file apparently, so it's a starting place.

 

[ivan salis]

hum "Francisco ( de Espinosa) means " the spines or spiny" -- the woman's name also contains the term (Espinoas) spiny ...in reference to a very small mountion region in northern spain where she was supposed to be from... very interesting