Name that bullet

[Icewing]

I found this odd bullet in a farm field that boarders the Pea Ridge National Military Park.
The obvious is that it's been fired and hit something, but I've not seen one like it before,.







Thanks

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

DR.ÖTEK Metal Detector, Waterproof Gold Detector, Pinpoint & Terrain Modes, Professional Metal Detector - Grab it through Amazon!

[smokeythecat]

I think it's a fired Williams cleaner type III. The hole in the bottom was for the zinc disc.

 

[Peyton Manning]

I’d name it clyde

 

[Tpmetal]

I think it's a fired Williams cleaner type III. The hole in the bottom was for the zinc disc.

I like the way you think, I agree

 

[smokeythecat]

I found two of the little plugs the other day, no bullets, but two plugs. Go figure.

 

[fyrffytr1]

In 1863 there is mention of a 69 caliber William's but none were ever purchased by the Ordnance dept. While it could very well be a William's cleaner would a 58 caliber one deform enough to give the 69 caliber reading?

 

[Mr. B]

WEing it would answer you question

 

[Icewing]

In 1863 there is mention of a 69 caliber William's but none were ever purchased by the Ordnance dept. While it could very well be a William's cleaner would a 58 caliber one deform enough to give the 69 caliber reading?

WEing it would answer you question

41.4 grams (I don't have a scale that measures grains)

Too heavy to be a .58 caliber

 

[XLV]

Well maybe someone fired that from a earlier period when .69 caliber was common ....i don't know that area u mention was there any indian wars in that area . wasn't that common in the war of 1812 time period

 

[vpnavy]

I pulled this from another TN thread...

Civil War Bullet ID Chart (Sep 05, 2013)

 

[fyrffytr1]

41.4 grams (I don't have a scale that measures grains)

Too heavy to be a .58 caliber

That's almost 639 grains. As short as it is I am thinking a shotgun slug.

 

[smokeythecat]

A semi modern shotgun slug would make sense. The Nesler bullets from the CW did not have that base.

 

[fyrffytr1]

Maybe a Foster slug. They had a deep hollow in the base.

 

[Icewing]

I took it to the military park and their Chief Interpreter said the same thing about it looking a lot like a William's Cleaner, and that there shouldn't have been any .69 caliber.

In the end he was just as baffled as the rest of us and sent pictures to a guy who is specialized in Civil War Battlefield Archeology. He said it will probably be a few days till we get an answer.

As soon as I know more I will report back.

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

When I first saw your post, I did not reply to it because I could not be certain about the correct ID for your fired civil war bullet, even after giving it extensive study and research. But since you emailed me a request for assistance, I'm returning to this discussion-thread, to give you my thoughts.

The weight your reported, 41.4 grams (639 grains) is in the correct range for a "short" .69-caliber civil war bullet. The presence of three very-narrow body grooves (not "rings" is a major ID-clue. (I should mention, shotgun slugs don't have those.)

The deep narrow hole in its base is another clue. That hole does indeed closely resemble the base-plug hole in a Williams "Bore Cleaner" bullet. However, a WC's base-hole has straight parallel sides, like a water-well in the ground, because it held the straight-sided body of the base-plug. Upon close examination of a super-enlargement of your photos, the hole's walls SEEM to not be parallel... looking instead like the hole is the narrow top of a cut-off bubble inside the bullet.

Because you can examine the hole in real-life and I can't, please stick the end of a toothpick into the hole to check whether the sides of the hole are straight, or whether the hole does get larger as it gets deeper. Also, the toothpick will tell you how deep the hole goes into the bullet.

I realize your fired bullet is significantly distorted by impact, which may have had a major distorting effect on the hole's shape.

And of course, it's length is also shortened by the impact. But still, please measure its length with your caliper, and tell us.

My initial guess was a Williams Cleaner... but the body-grooves on ALL of the versions of WC bullets are flat-bottomed instead of V-shaped like on most civil war bullets. In all my decades of closely examining civil war bullets, I've never seen even "extreme" firing-compression turn a Williams Cleaners body-grooves from flat-bottomed into narrow V-shaped. So, even in view of the WC-like hole in your bullet's base, I excluded it from being a Williams. Which, in summary, meant I could not ID it... and that, combined with being very-latenight weary when I saw it, I didn't feel up to composing and typing this looong response about it.

Please let us know the result of doing toothpick exploration of the hole, and the length measurement. Thanks.

Afterthought:
I suggest you post your pictures of it, with the weight and measurement and especially the dig-location info (which is always very important to include), in the Bullets discussion section at the Bullet-and-Shell website's Civil War Projectiles forum, here:
Civil War Projectiles Forum - Index

 

[Icewing]

It's a cheap scale so +/- 0.1 gram


Side profile to show impact deformation


Length (as best I could manage)


The width and depth of the hole in the base are as best I could measure both .25", but there is a bit of a conical shape at the deepest part of the hole where it comes to a point in the center. It's hard to tell for certain if the sides near the opening are perfectly parallel.


Just another shot of the hole with a bit of light shining in.

Thank you again

 

[Icewing]

Still waiting on "bulletandshell" to approve my request to sign up so I can post there.

 

[fyrffytr1]

Giving this a bump to get it back on page 1. Have you heard anything about your bullet yet?

 

[Fullstock]

I just found something similar yesterday in the Shenandoah Valley. I found it along with other CW miniballs and round balls. Mine was either flattened or fired. Mine also shows faint lines or grooves at the base.

 

[Icewing]

Giving this a bump to get it back on page 1. Have you heard anything about your bullet yet?

You can check out any info that comes in from the experts and serious collectors here: Mystery .69 caliber bullet

I also sent an email to Carl Drexler this morning, hopefully he will respond within the next couple of days.