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Need a sand sifter/digger - must meet my state park requirements !!

bradsguns

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Shell Knob, MO
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Tesoro Tejon & Vaquero
Ok, I received my Missouri State Parks beach detecting permit and need to find a beach sifter to meet their requirements. Stated size must be no more than 12" in length and 3" in width. Ive got my knife trowel thing, but was wondering if there is some type of sifter in that size range.
Brad
 
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Does their rules say that is the measurements for a "sifter", or just any digging tool? I suspect it is just for whatever retrieval tool. So you are basically relegated to a garden trowel. There is no sandscoop that I know, that's only 3" wide. Heck, you'd barely be able to get any sand in something so narrow, to be able to shake, to begin with. Check out Kelly-Co's, etc... sand scoops and you'll see what I mean. They seem to start at 6" diameter basket bottoms. Do rangers really go around measuring people's sandscoops anyways?
 
You're not going to find any kind of scoop with those dimensions... it's just too small. last time i checked, the smallest basket I saw was 5" in diameter... and having used one in the past... i thought it was too small

steve
 
Good catch...it does say any tool used for "probing or digging"...so maybe a shaker would be ok as long as I dont dig with it ??? I guess I will have to ask at the station before I dig...just thought someone here may know for sure.
Thanks !!
Brad
 
bradsguns said:
Ok, I received my Missouri State Parks beach detecting permit and need to find a beach sifter to meet their requirements.
Detecting permit? I knew that day would come. Was there a charge? Do any other states require a permit to dig in state parks beaches or anywhere else? Did you have to register your metal detector and have it measured and weighed? :D ;)
 
Chances are that the ranger won't know the answer, either. S/he may not even know exactly what you're talking about. You might want to take your trowel (for digging and probing) and a sand scoop when you contact the ranger. That way you can show him/her what you are talking about. If the ranger is reasonable, s/he will see that a probe meeting the maximum dimensions can be practical, but that a scoop meeting those same dimensions would be useless.
 
Something else to keep in mind when broaching the subject of legal digging/scooping tools. IF you have a disability, the Americans With Disability Act should allow you to have a longer handle on your tools. I have a chronic condition and use a long handled scoop and a long handled digging tool. If any law enforcement official were to ask me to give up those tools, I wouldn't be able to do any further treasure hunting. And that would be a violation of the ADA, IMHO. I presume, however, that you have no such disability.
 
Borninok, I wouldn't put too much stock in that website. The only thing they've done was to mail out 50 questionaires to each state's park's dept. Naturally, within each state, there oodles of kinds of parks. Some historic monuments, but the vast majority just normal picnic spots, beaches, or whatever. Since they can't go on and one listing each park individually, most states will just reply to the questionare with "inquire of each ranger at each park". To have done otherwise, would be something pages long, like "yes at this one, but no at this one, yes on the north side of this one, but not on the south side" blah blah blah. The easy bureaucratic answer is either "no", or "only with a permit", or "inquire at each park", etc.... when in fact, as long as you're not at historic monuments, making a mess, etc...., your usually ignored.

On that site, it says to inquire at each CA state park (which I assume to mean CA owned beaches). Yet the entire state of CA's beaches are detected, at will, with no problems, no questions, etc....
 
Tom, you're doing it again. You cannot and should not make a blanket statement like that. Not all CA state beaches are open to at-will detecting. Maybe you have no problem with detecting any beach any time, but that doesn't necessarily make it right. Why would the State respond to the FMDAC questionnaire in the way it did if it's OK to detect any state beach? Do you think the State is just trying to take the easy way out? Wouldn't the easy way be just to say "yes, all beaches open all the time" if that were true, as you claim it to be? I have to say, I think your attitude is irresponsible. Do you also drive as fast as you want because the speed limit varies from place to place?
 
The MO state park permit was easy to get and cost nothing. Just sent an email to the state headquarters requesting the permit, had to give addy & contact info, no model or specific info was required......it then arrived in about 5 days.

In MO state parks, we are allowed to detect the beaches and shallow water beach areas. detecting is allowed all day from Labor day to Memorial day and from 7am to 9am Memorial day to Labor Day.
Brad
 
Without bickering or starting an argument that will end up with personal attacks, I would like to say that I partially agree with treasuretales on this one. Regardless of anyone's personal feelings towards the existing laws, or thier personal opinions on whether or not you can or should be able to detect an area, it is ALWAYS best to check and make sure of the laws BEFORE YOU DETECT.

The simple fact is that ignorance is not an excuse for breaking the law. Neither is having a "really good reason". (how many times have you still gotten a speeding ticked after explaining your reason to the cop or judge?).

I posted this several months ago: (ps... I am an attorney, and this gentleman didn't know what he did was prohibited)

"It isn't worth it. Back in the beginning of April, I defended a gentleman who used a metal detector on a prohibited site (underwater). There was a statute that prevented it. Here was the total tab after all his gear was confiscated:
$2500 in Scuba Gear
$1000 for and Excalibur 1000 (bought about 2 months ago)
$3500 for 14' zodiac and motor
$1000 in fines
$750 legal fees (to me )
$8,500 Total bill"

Sorry to hijack this thread...
bradsguns... you're not likely to find a scoop with those dimensions, that meet the requirements. your best bet is to try and talk to the park ranger (or whoever is in charge) and get permission to use a larger scoop. You might be able to do so after a demonstration. If not, stay within the confines of the law, or even better, try and get the rule changed. Violating the statute/law/ordinance will only do 2 things... 1. cost you money, 2. put an even bigger shadow on our reputations

steve
 
bradsguns said:
Ok, I received my Missouri State Parks beach detecting permit and need to find a beach sifter to meet their requirements. Stated size must be no more than 12" in length and 3" in width. Ive got my knife trowel thing, but was wondering if there is some type of sifter in that size range.
Brad
Before I could afford a sand scoop, I used to make my own out of a coffee can, cut out the bottom, put in a chicken wire fence type screen, and attach a pole to it. A coffee can's diameter is over 3", but you could use a smaller can.
 

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Treasure Tales and Steve, I should clarify and say "state owned" CA beaches. Yes, some federal ones do have rangers here who care less. But restricting the conversation to state of CA owned beaches, if someone were to take the FMDAC website literally, they would be inclined to think they must "inquire at each one". All I am saying ... right or wrong.... is that no one here does. They have been detected since the dawn of detectors, back when it didn't even dawn on any of the early hunters that you needed to "ask" to detect a public beach, to begin with.

So when new folks join clubs, join friends on hunts, and get into the hobby, it's just assumed that the beaches are ok, since, that's where your friends, who turned you onto the hobby, or the fellow club members, etc... go. Not until you log onto the internet, or hear a story of someone getting hassled, do you think "gee, no one's ever said anything to me here?". So are legions of CA hunters supposed to start asking, even though they've been hunting state beaches for decades?

Of course this is only CA, in this example, but I'm just saying, that when you extrapilate that out, it just makes me wonder if the other FMDAC state's answers and specifics are perhaps the same thing?

And although it might seem like "what's the harm in asking", I would be afraid to get a no, at places no one's ever cared. Ie.: why rock the boat, when we've gone for 30 yrs. in front of God and everyone?
 
Here is a website http://www.dalynenterprises.com/mainmenu.html for Dalyn Enterprises. They manufacture MD equipment. If you notice, most of the baskets on their scoops are larger than 3". If the Rangers won't budge, contact Dalyn, explain your dilema and see if they can custom make one (they have been very reasonable to deal with and they themselves are MD'ers).
 
I visited my local cafe and got one of there silverware holders it is about 3" in diameter and about 5" in length, it is made from stainless and has holes already punched in it. I rolled half the lip and flattened the other and attached it to a piece if bent conduit.
 
I would like to see a pic of that Catfish.

Here is another idea for you. This sand scoop is being sold commercially, but looks to be easily made. Start with a 3" thin walled (not schedule 40) PVC drain pipe and cut as shown with jigsaw or any handsaw that will cut plastic. Fasten metal chicken wire type fence mesh with rivets or epoxy. (or drill 1/2" holes). Glue 3" cap on back to hold screen in place. Make handle from 3/4" or 1" PVC and A/C pipe insulation. Ready to go and State Park legal. :)
 

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