NEED HELP TO IDENTIFY IDIAN ARTIFACT

[themanwhogetsthings711]

Hello my name is Ben Combs I am a antique collector and I got a nice pendant a few years back and I have emailed numerous people to help identify it but no luck yet. It is a water spider emblem which the ones I have seen were made of shell and white with very similar design And hey were made and wore by the Cherokee. I have recently seen online today that there is mound builders And other Indians who would make pendants and things out of tempered shell and Pieces of clam shells. its 2 1/2 inches wide and a quarter of a inch thick On the front its red and black and On the back its solid black with little holes. It looks it has been fired also there is dirt on it like it was dug up from the ground. I Have not seen any copy or even reproduction even anything like this. I have been researching for Days and Days From museum websites to pictures I seen online. I hope you can help me identify this mystery and It may be a new Historical find ty for your time hope to hear from u soon. I have put up 6 pictures.

 

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[Glenn C]

I can't see the pictures. Did you post them on a different thread?

 

[themanwhogetsthings711]

hello I just put up better pics they should be viewable now ty for your help. I deal with weapons I have some nice axes and weapons to I can put up later.

 

[Glenn C]

I wish I could help in pin pointing where you object is from. The one thing I have learned with Indian artefacts is that some seem to be all on there own. I cant imagine passing the time in day, without, what we have now. Maybe someone just made it because they were crafty and passing the day... just like us. Very nice object though. Google is sometimes is your friend unless you use words like spider etc...lol. Its hard to pick through. Maybe some expert will chime in.

Oh....love to see the iron/copper finds!

 

[GatorBoy]

WOW...I belive that is midden patina that made that brown. It looks Mississippian era in age..its awesome! Check more out here.. www.aboriginalantiquities.com PLEASE POST THAT IN INDIAN ARTIFACTS FORUM. IT COULD BE WORTH THOUSANDS.

 

[GatorBoy]

DO NOT REMOVE THE BROWN!! THIS ONE IS SELLING FOR 3200 DOLLARS.







This one 1500. Its a Mississippian shell gorget!!! How on earth did you get that and not know what it is!! O.m.g.! It is from an Indian mound like Tick Island... that is a beautiful specimen!!! Please..please..be careful with that!! Nevermind some old rusty items THAT MY FRIEND IS TREASURE!

 

[themanwhogetsthings711]

Hey ty very much for the information you are the only one so far to show me similar type of shell artifacts that have similar patina I knew it was shell because its white on tbe inside if you look at the chip. I had a few people tell me it was a copy or fake but there is no way it smells old and still has dirt on it. I got this from a gentlemen who was picking at a farm in tennese the farmer found it and I got lucky getting it off him it was not cheap so I am glad to hear your rsaction. There is no spider gorget or pendants like this so hopefully its worth some good money ty again and I have a lot of weapons and stuff I will be puttin pics up soon.

 

[themanwhogetsthings711]

Also I get things no one has seen before that's what I do and I seen shell gorgets but they were all white I even sent pics to the Tennessee university to a archaeologist and they said they never seen a shell gorget this color. I have been researching and emailing a lot of people to find out what I have and try to find the value but no luck I guess the next step is to authenticate it. I emailed the website you linked some pictures.

 

[GatorBoy]

I'm so glad I could help. Great artifact! If you have any other questions I will be glad to help If I can. By the way...welcome.

 

[themanwhogetsthings711]

I jut emailed the guy on the website here's what he said ty

sharing your artifact with me. You have a very interesting piece. The spider motif is primarily found within the "Mississippian" cultural period. Many of the more modern southeastern tribes descended from these people, and many of their religious practices and mythology followed them into many modern descendants such as the Cherokee, Osage, Creek, and other southeastern tribes of today. For the Cherokee, the water spider motif was represented as having first brought light and fire to humans, and is an important symbol of their cultural beliefs. This particular motifhas been associated primarily with women. As an antique dealer, you know that it is nearly impossible to evaluate authenticity without actually handling and personally inspecting the item. From the picture, I can only speculate on the type of material, but I am leaning toward a ceramic/pottery material. It could however be a black slate or cannel coal. Because I may detect a white shell tempering material, first observation makes me think it's pottery. The red material found within the engraving is likely "red ocher" which is also known as iron oxide, and was commonly used as highlighter, also having some religious significance, especially in burials. A gorget (pendant) of that time period would most likely have a pair of suspension holes near the top of the outer edge.. If your gorget did have suspension holes they may have been small enough to have been removed by the small area of damage it hasnear that edge. Many gorgets typically break at that area due to the fragility in the proximity of the holes. Ben, it is my opinion that from the pictures you sent, I see enough evidence to merit sending the piece to a Nationally recognized authenticator for inspection and possibly obtaining an authentication certificate from someone who's opinion is respected and unquestioned within the Prehistoric Indian Artifact community. There are so many fakes out there and It could give a piece like that much more integrity. If it turns out to be a modern reproduction, well, it only costs $25. to find out. I can refer you to two of the best, who have geographical expertise in this cultural period. Either would be able to confirm authenticity and also determine the material. Both Tom Davis of Kentucky,(Davis Artifacts) or Jerry Dickey of Tennessee. (The Solid Rock). I have attached their contact information. If you decide to authenticate it, I'd sure like to know how it turns out.

 

[GatorBoy]

Great..that's progress.

 

[skeeterd]

Please keep us updated. Thats a great artifact!!

 

[Backbacon]

What a beautiful piece.

 

[GatorBoy]

Isn't it! I'm still waiting to hear back from him. we did email back and forth so if I hear something I will post it. " nice name" Backbacon..LOL.

 

[Little River Hunter]

Nice find. Almost looks like a fired piece. Red ochre was used on numerous shell engraved pieces. That is a very common design used seen on several shell, sandstone, pottery pieces. Check in Fundaburke's book, SUN CIRCLES AND HUMAN HANDS. Its considered one of the most comprehensive books on early Indian-made items in the Southeast.

 

[GatorBoy]

Good read right there!!

 

[pickaway]

Is the blue stuff on the back of it midden patina also?

 

[GatorBoy]

Ha.. I was on my cellphone On a lunch break When I first saw this thread... I didn't even see that Till now. No surprise We never heard back from him.

 

[rock]

I saw this one on another site and I wont give up the info on the results.

 

[GatorBoy]

Then Why did you bother To post just to say that?