NEED HELP WITH I. D. of WATCH FOB FROM ARK. FOUND TODAY IN Mn.
- Thread starter PRAIRIEWOLF
- Start date
- #2
Thread Owner
The manufacturer is not legible in the photo but , it reads : S. GUILDS Co. Chicago
D
Deadshot
Guest
Wow that is a super fob. Can't help on any ID but I bet some one will share some knowledge
Keep em coming
Deadshot
Keep em coming
Deadshot
rabajohn
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That is totally awesome! Stunning detail. Hope you find some good info on it.
hoosier hunter
Jr. Member
Hey Prairiewolf,
That is an awsome "FOB" Look on google image search. There is always some info on there.
Congrats...
Hoosier Hunter...
That is an awsome "FOB" Look on google image search. There is always some info on there.
Congrats...
Hoosier Hunter...
- #6
Thread Owner
lonewolfe
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Excellent FOB!
Looks 1850's / 60's to me!
Good luck in your search,
HH
Lonewolfe
Looks 1850's / 60's to me!
Good luck in your search,
HH
Lonewolfe
comfyinvermont
Bronze Member
Hey Prairiewolf. that has got to be the most beautiful fob I have ever seen. What a beauty. Congrats on a wonderful find...Lance
northeast hunter
Bronze Member
I have to agree with comfyinvermont...that is a sweet sweet fob congrats
- #10
Thread Owner
I'm glad to hear that you all like it too . I found out that the Co. that made it is S. Childs Co. Chicago and not S. Guild . The print was lite on the top of the H . I'm still shooting for a date around 1855-1875 but haven't got a lock on manufacture date yet . Eagle Mills still exists but there are only 2 houses left there and the local Timber Historian died 2 years ago . May Lady Luck Gaze Upon You .
stoney56
Gold Member
What I found is probably from the same website but shows a date on the attached square of mother of pearl of probably 1922.
http://www.exocoin.com/product1060.html
http://www.exocoin.com/product1060.html
- #12
Thread Owner
That mother of pearl item is just tagged onto the fob and was not original to it . It would have had a leather belt that would then also attach to the watch . I don't think that date is relevant to the manufacture date . Thanks for the effort though .
MalteseFalcon
Bronze Member
Ok here is some info for ya. That fob could be dated to at least 1886, as the Eagle Lumber Co. was already established by then.
On the page at the link below, Eagle Lumber Company is listed in the Ouchita Country, Arkansas Business Directory published in 1900:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~arouachi/1900.htm
Then, go to this page:
http://www.celticcousins.net/scott/1910vol2bios34.htm
and scroll down to a bio of Edward Savage Crossett, and you can see what it says in the second paragraph I have excerpted below:
From "Vol 2 History of Davenport and Scott County" by Harry E. Downer - S. J. Clarke Publishing Co. 1910 Chicago:
In 1873 Mr. Crossett was united in marriage to Miss Harmony E. Clark, of Pittsfield, Massachusetts, and from that auspicious day dates, as he declares, his real prosperity. The two made their home in Nielsville, Wisconsin, until February, 1875, when they removed to Davenport, Iowa, where Mr. Crossett became a member of the firm of Renwick, Shaw & Crossett. Their son, Edward Clark Crossett, was born at Davenport, August 7, 1882. The same year marks Mr. Crossett's first investment in yellow pine, as one of the organizers of the Lindsay Land & Lumber Company.
In 1884 Renwick, Shaw & Crossett bought a sawmill and some pine land at Cloquet, Minnesota. Two years later Mr. Crossett sold his interest to Mr. Shaw, taking in payment ten thousand acres of Arkansas land covered with yellow pine. His friends were confident that he had made a serious mistake in acquiring Arkansas property, but the soundness of his judgment was speedily vindicated. Convinced by personal inspection of the great possibilities in yellow pine, he became extensively interested in other companies operating in the south. Already a heavy stockholder in the Eagle Lumber Company, of Eagle Mills, Arkansas, and in the Gates Lumber Company, of Wilmar, Arkansas, he, in company with C. W. Gates and Dr. J. W. Watzek, purchased in 1892 the Fordyce Lumber Company, of Fordyce, Arkansas.
Ok, as it says above, they bought a sawmill and some pineland in Cloquet, Minnesota. It just so happenes that the Carlton County Historical Society is IN Cloquet, and here is their website:
http://www.carltoncountyhs.org/
Here is a brief history of Cloquet:
http://www.cloquet.com/community/history/
From what I have found, Renwick, Shaw & Crossett were based in Davenport, Iowa, and it appears that Oronoco is in between Davenport and Cloquet.
Ok, enough focus on the Minnesota connection.
Now for Eagle Mills and the Eagle Lumber Co.
Here is info on 3 steam locomotives that were built for the Eagle Lumber Company.
#555 was built for the Eagle Lumber Co. 04-30-1898
http://www.shaylocomotives.com/data/lima/sn-555.htm
It was one of three, the others being #1576 -built for Eagle Lumber on September 9, 1905
Here is a photo of it:
and #1759, built for Bering Manufacturing Co. in 1906, bought by Eagle Lumber on November 18, 1920
There is almost nothing on the internet about Eagle Mills, Arkansas or the Eagle Lumber Company that was located there.
Wait a minute...I take that back...Google is not doing it's job LOL!
Ok check this out. Here is a photo of it!! WOOHOO!
And here is a photo of another engine owned by the Freo Valley Railroad (the railroad serving Eagle Lumber Company). The caption is: A Freo Valley Railroad engine is stopped in front of the Eagle Mills Depot about 1920.
It is not, however one of the three used by Eagle Lumber. The one in the photo is Freeo Valley Railway #7. The Eagle Lumber locomotives were FVR #3, #5 & #8
What is really wild is that the county seat is Camden, Arkansas. Back in 1982 I was running sound for a rock band, and had a real hand-of-God type experience there.
Little did I know 23 years later I would be doing research on that very area lol.
If ya really wanna go nuts on the historical research, here is the address of the Ouachita County Historical Society:
Ouachita County Historical Society
926 Washington St. NW
Camden, AR 71701
Here is a messageboard for that county at ancestry.com.
It is possible there are geneological researchers who have tons of info on the early history of that county.
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?h...northam.usa.states.arkansas.counties.ouachita
Checking out mapquest.com, it appears that Eagle Mills, Arkansas still exists.
Gee....have I gone over the top on info for ya?
Good luck. Nice find!
On the page at the link below, Eagle Lumber Company is listed in the Ouchita Country, Arkansas Business Directory published in 1900:
http://www.rootsweb.com/~arouachi/1900.htm
Then, go to this page:
http://www.celticcousins.net/scott/1910vol2bios34.htm
and scroll down to a bio of Edward Savage Crossett, and you can see what it says in the second paragraph I have excerpted below:
From "Vol 2 History of Davenport and Scott County" by Harry E. Downer - S. J. Clarke Publishing Co. 1910 Chicago:
In 1873 Mr. Crossett was united in marriage to Miss Harmony E. Clark, of Pittsfield, Massachusetts, and from that auspicious day dates, as he declares, his real prosperity. The two made their home in Nielsville, Wisconsin, until February, 1875, when they removed to Davenport, Iowa, where Mr. Crossett became a member of the firm of Renwick, Shaw & Crossett. Their son, Edward Clark Crossett, was born at Davenport, August 7, 1882. The same year marks Mr. Crossett's first investment in yellow pine, as one of the organizers of the Lindsay Land & Lumber Company.
In 1884 Renwick, Shaw & Crossett bought a sawmill and some pine land at Cloquet, Minnesota. Two years later Mr. Crossett sold his interest to Mr. Shaw, taking in payment ten thousand acres of Arkansas land covered with yellow pine. His friends were confident that he had made a serious mistake in acquiring Arkansas property, but the soundness of his judgment was speedily vindicated. Convinced by personal inspection of the great possibilities in yellow pine, he became extensively interested in other companies operating in the south. Already a heavy stockholder in the Eagle Lumber Company, of Eagle Mills, Arkansas, and in the Gates Lumber Company, of Wilmar, Arkansas, he, in company with C. W. Gates and Dr. J. W. Watzek, purchased in 1892 the Fordyce Lumber Company, of Fordyce, Arkansas.
Ok, as it says above, they bought a sawmill and some pineland in Cloquet, Minnesota. It just so happenes that the Carlton County Historical Society is IN Cloquet, and here is their website:
http://www.carltoncountyhs.org/
Here is a brief history of Cloquet:
http://www.cloquet.com/community/history/
From what I have found, Renwick, Shaw & Crossett were based in Davenport, Iowa, and it appears that Oronoco is in between Davenport and Cloquet.
Ok, enough focus on the Minnesota connection.
Now for Eagle Mills and the Eagle Lumber Co.
Here is info on 3 steam locomotives that were built for the Eagle Lumber Company.
#555 was built for the Eagle Lumber Co. 04-30-1898
http://www.shaylocomotives.com/data/lima/sn-555.htm
It was one of three, the others being #1576 -built for Eagle Lumber on September 9, 1905
Here is a photo of it:
and #1759, built for Bering Manufacturing Co. in 1906, bought by Eagle Lumber on November 18, 1920
There is almost nothing on the internet about Eagle Mills, Arkansas or the Eagle Lumber Company that was located there.
Wait a minute...I take that back...Google is not doing it's job LOL!
Ok check this out. Here is a photo of it!! WOOHOO!
And here is a photo of another engine owned by the Freo Valley Railroad (the railroad serving Eagle Lumber Company). The caption is: A Freo Valley Railroad engine is stopped in front of the Eagle Mills Depot about 1920.
It is not, however one of the three used by Eagle Lumber. The one in the photo is Freeo Valley Railway #7. The Eagle Lumber locomotives were FVR #3, #5 & #8
What is really wild is that the county seat is Camden, Arkansas. Back in 1982 I was running sound for a rock band, and had a real hand-of-God type experience there.
Little did I know 23 years later I would be doing research on that very area lol.
If ya really wanna go nuts on the historical research, here is the address of the Ouachita County Historical Society:
Ouachita County Historical Society
926 Washington St. NW
Camden, AR 71701
Here is a messageboard for that county at ancestry.com.
It is possible there are geneological researchers who have tons of info on the early history of that county.
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?h...northam.usa.states.arkansas.counties.ouachita
Checking out mapquest.com, it appears that Eagle Mills, Arkansas still exists.
Gee....have I gone over the top on info for ya?
Good luck. Nice find!
MalteseFalcon
Bronze Member
Found out a bit more about the Minnesota connection: The name of the sawmill in Cloquet, Minnesota!
From: http://www.celticcousins.net/scott/1910vol2bios36.htm
In 1884 when Renwick, Shaw and Crossett went north to Cloquet, Minnesota, and organized the Cloquet Lumber Company with George S. Shaw as its manager, Mr. Lindsay and Mr. Phelps became members of that company, Mr. Lindsay now being a director.
And according to this page, it was still in operation as of 1966:
http://www.iww.org/en/unions/iu120/scribner/Scribner5.shtml
At the link below is a photo of the company offices sometime in the early 1900s.
http://www.lib.duke.edu/forest/Research/Galleries/Cities_and_Towns_Gallery/pages/FHS1133th.htm
Ok, back to Arkansas, here is a messageboard that may help you out. I am searching through the archives of the messageboard for the past 3 years and will post any info, but this link is where you should post any questions. It is the board for Arkansas Sawmills at Ancestry.com:
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=topics.occupations.arsawmills
From: http://www.celticcousins.net/scott/1910vol2bios36.htm
In 1884 when Renwick, Shaw and Crossett went north to Cloquet, Minnesota, and organized the Cloquet Lumber Company with George S. Shaw as its manager, Mr. Lindsay and Mr. Phelps became members of that company, Mr. Lindsay now being a director.
And according to this page, it was still in operation as of 1966:
http://www.iww.org/en/unions/iu120/scribner/Scribner5.shtml
At the link below is a photo of the company offices sometime in the early 1900s.
http://www.lib.duke.edu/forest/Research/Galleries/Cities_and_Towns_Gallery/pages/FHS1133th.htm
Ok, back to Arkansas, here is a messageboard that may help you out. I am searching through the archives of the messageboard for the past 3 years and will post any info, but this link is where you should post any questions. It is the board for Arkansas Sawmills at Ancestry.com:
http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec?htx=board&r=rw&p=topics.occupations.arsawmills
MalteseFalcon
Bronze Member
Found the following when doing a Google for the Freeo Valley Railway:
By the early 1920's, the eastern, western and southern sections of Dallas County were rich with railroad tracks. The timber industry had two main logging railways, the Fordyce and Princeton (the Fordyce and Princeton never connected or spurred to the Freeo Valley and never reached Princeton) and the Freeo Valley (connecting Ouachita County to Princeton from the Eagle Mills Lumber Company, in operation in the 1920's).
http://www.rootsweb.com/~ardallas/towns/ivan.htm
That is all I could find. It is waay late (3:39 AM) but I was just having fun pretending to be a researcher lol.
Me go sleepy-bye now....
By the early 1920's, the eastern, western and southern sections of Dallas County were rich with railroad tracks. The timber industry had two main logging railways, the Fordyce and Princeton (the Fordyce and Princeton never connected or spurred to the Freeo Valley and never reached Princeton) and the Freeo Valley (connecting Ouachita County to Princeton from the Eagle Mills Lumber Company, in operation in the 1920's).
http://www.rootsweb.com/~ardallas/towns/ivan.htm
That is all I could find. It is waay late (3:39 AM) but I was just having fun pretending to be a researcher lol.
Me go sleepy-bye now....
- #17
Thread Owner
To GERMAN BIRD BOY
IS THAT ALL YA GOT ?
IS THAT ALL YA GOT ?
MalteseFalcon
Bronze Member
Uh...German?
Boy
!?!!
I think not....
Well, yes....you see, my time machine broke down, so I can't go back to the 1880s to talk directly to the manager of the mill lol!
Oh well...........
Are you sure it does not say "S & D Childs Co., Chicago"? I found a fob from around 1900-1907 made by that company here:
http://www.goantiques.com/search/item_detail.jsp?id=806347&source=BBA1518
Here is some more (there are numerous typos on this page):
http://wbcc-online.com/newsmail/news73.txt
On 16 January 1899 George G. Greenburg filed an application entitled "Art
of Making Bimetallic Coins or Checks" with the United States Patent
Office. Patent number 632,938 was assigned to him on 12 September 1899.
Greenburg was, at that time, employed by S. D. Childs and Company of
Chicago, a large manufacturer of tokens and medals.
The Childs company manufactu tokens until it went
out of business during the 1930s. It is not possible from the reverse die,
when a token was struck. Once "stock" reverse they were used until they
became unserviceable, regardless of type, tc tokens. More often than not,
when several token denominations wei merchant, some were made using PAT
APPLD. FOR reverses PAT JULY 1899 dies, and still others with no mention of
a patent. In whatever die was handy was used.
The tokens of Tatum Lumber Company, Bonhomie, Mississi excellent example
of how long these "stock" dies were used. Mar tokens were struck for this
merchant with the PAT JULY 1899 revers have, on their obverses, various
dates ranging from 1922 to as late a: post-1899 "dated" tokens exist with
the Childs PAT APPLD. FOR or Pi reverse dies.
The Childs company itself has left us with convincing evid meaningless
their reverse dies are as a means of dating tokens. This form of a 1920
advertisement for the firm which illustrates their "Pat Metal Coins" with
the PATD JULY 1899 reverses. The folks at Childs ol not concerned with the
fact that by 1920 their patent rights had expired.
It seems they were a company that also did engraving and printing.
Here are some watch fobs made by SD Childs & Company. There are 3 pages, with several SD Childs fobs on each page. I am sure this person could probably give you mo0re info on this company than I can dig up on the internet:
http://antiquesbyjoyce.com/watchfobs.html
I did find a reference to SD Childs Co. Chicago with a date of 1888 on this page:
http://www.robert-a-burns.com/GONE.HTML
Here is a list of token manufacturers from 1870-1950. SD Childs Co. is (of course) on the list. Though there is the following paragraph in addition to the list:
Lumber tokens were used extensively in the eastern portion of Texas, throughout the piney woods north of Houston, up through Marshall, and north and west of Beaumont. Company tokens were generally used as a means of pay for employees, and were accepted as cash at the local company store. Often these tokens were issued in advance of pay, a form of credit, and deducted from the employee?s pay each month. The tokens also aided in bookkeeping, and were of vast benefit to the lumber company, rather than the employee. Texas lumber companies that issued tokens include the Thompson Tucker Lumber Company, the Texas Long Leaf Lumber Company, C. Bender and Sons, Boettcher Lumber Company, and Dacus Lumber Company, among many others.
http://members.fortunecity.com/tokenguy/tokentales/page10.htm
They apparently made police badges as well:
http://www.policeguide.com/Photo_Ga...ade_Badges/Trade_Badges_8/trade_badges_8.html
A Medal with Abraham Lincoln's portrait on the obverse, dated 1861 or later:
http://luceweb.nyhistory.org/luceweb/item_detail.htm?qmkey=34885
I'll be danged....here is a page from Treasurenet.com!
http://treasurenet.com/forum/photos/messages/1062963.shtml
Alright that is enuff for me.
I just did a search for SD Childs on Google and came up with tons of fobs, badges, medals, books, stock certificates, tokens, etc.
Hope I have helped.
Boy
!?!!I think not....
Well, yes....you see, my time machine broke down, so I can't go back to the 1880s to talk directly to the manager of the mill lol!
Oh well...........
Are you sure it does not say "S & D Childs Co., Chicago"? I found a fob from around 1900-1907 made by that company here:
http://www.goantiques.com/search/item_detail.jsp?id=806347&source=BBA1518
Here is some more (there are numerous typos on this page):
http://wbcc-online.com/newsmail/news73.txt
On 16 January 1899 George G. Greenburg filed an application entitled "Art
of Making Bimetallic Coins or Checks" with the United States Patent
Office. Patent number 632,938 was assigned to him on 12 September 1899.
Greenburg was, at that time, employed by S. D. Childs and Company of
Chicago, a large manufacturer of tokens and medals.
The Childs company manufactu tokens until it went
out of business during the 1930s. It is not possible from the reverse die,
when a token was struck. Once "stock" reverse they were used until they
became unserviceable, regardless of type, tc tokens. More often than not,
when several token denominations wei merchant, some were made using PAT
APPLD. FOR reverses PAT JULY 1899 dies, and still others with no mention of
a patent. In whatever die was handy was used.
The tokens of Tatum Lumber Company, Bonhomie, Mississi excellent example
of how long these "stock" dies were used. Mar tokens were struck for this
merchant with the PAT JULY 1899 revers have, on their obverses, various
dates ranging from 1922 to as late a: post-1899 "dated" tokens exist with
the Childs PAT APPLD. FOR or Pi reverse dies.
The Childs company itself has left us with convincing evid meaningless
their reverse dies are as a means of dating tokens. This form of a 1920
advertisement for the firm which illustrates their "Pat Metal Coins" with
the PATD JULY 1899 reverses. The folks at Childs ol not concerned with the
fact that by 1920 their patent rights had expired.
It seems they were a company that also did engraving and printing.
Here are some watch fobs made by SD Childs & Company. There are 3 pages, with several SD Childs fobs on each page. I am sure this person could probably give you mo0re info on this company than I can dig up on the internet:
http://antiquesbyjoyce.com/watchfobs.html
I did find a reference to SD Childs Co. Chicago with a date of 1888 on this page:
http://www.robert-a-burns.com/GONE.HTML
Here is a list of token manufacturers from 1870-1950. SD Childs Co. is (of course) on the list. Though there is the following paragraph in addition to the list:
Lumber tokens were used extensively in the eastern portion of Texas, throughout the piney woods north of Houston, up through Marshall, and north and west of Beaumont. Company tokens were generally used as a means of pay for employees, and were accepted as cash at the local company store. Often these tokens were issued in advance of pay, a form of credit, and deducted from the employee?s pay each month. The tokens also aided in bookkeeping, and were of vast benefit to the lumber company, rather than the employee. Texas lumber companies that issued tokens include the Thompson Tucker Lumber Company, the Texas Long Leaf Lumber Company, C. Bender and Sons, Boettcher Lumber Company, and Dacus Lumber Company, among many others.
http://members.fortunecity.com/tokenguy/tokentales/page10.htm
They apparently made police badges as well:
http://www.policeguide.com/Photo_Ga...ade_Badges/Trade_Badges_8/trade_badges_8.html
A Medal with Abraham Lincoln's portrait on the obverse, dated 1861 or later:
http://luceweb.nyhistory.org/luceweb/item_detail.htm?qmkey=34885
I'll be danged....here is a page from Treasurenet.com!
http://treasurenet.com/forum/photos/messages/1062963.shtml
Alright that is enuff for me.
I just did a search for SD Childs on Google and came up with tons of fobs, badges, medals, books, stock certificates, tokens, etc.
Hope I have helped.
- #19
Thread Owner
I think you may be correct MalteseFalcon . There is space for a D but it can not be determined with a 30 power loupe to be a D for sure . I would bet cash on it though to be correct . I spoke with the head of the watch fob asso. and was informed of the Childs name but was not told of the D . It look like we have it now to 1870 9 the co. that is ) but I would also bet it goes back a bit further .
You have done a great job on this . I had contacted the Historical center in the Eagle Mills area over the phone by the time you offered the info. and the director there said he would look into the mills history for me .
It's just a shame the the old codger with sawdust in his veins checked out a couple of years ago . He or she would have enjoyed this little quest . Thanks for the effort .
You have done a great job on this . I had contacted the Historical center in the Eagle Mills area over the phone by the time you offered the info. and the director there said he would look into the mills history for me .
It's just a shame the the old codger with sawdust in his veins checked out a couple of years ago . He or she would have enjoyed this little quest . Thanks for the effort .
MalteseFalcon
Bronze Member
Hey prairiewolf, no problem. I kinda surprised myself by going off the deep end into research-land, but I have become quite good at searching the internet for info on obscure stuff....and it is nice to help people in their quest for info on historical stuff...certainly peeps here at Treasurenet.com!
Please post your findings some day...after the searching I did, I am kinda curious now myself.
My family is from the Lincoln/Drew County area of Southern Arkansas (as of the Civil War), so I kind of knew that for a company that old, geneological websites would be a good place to look.
I am just curious as well as to how that fob wound up in the ground where it did....that is why I did some searching for the Minnesota connection as well.
I tried just hunting for S. Childs, but found almost nothing....but then by chance I saw a Google result that had S.D. Childs, and that yielded all the info about the company. Seems they were a very prominent company in the realms of printing and engraving from at least 1860 or so until the mid-30s....
This is one reason I love the internet....anything you want to know, just go to Lord Google and ask, and he/she/it will bestow upon thee some answers! LOL!!
Happy Hunting!
Please post your findings some day...after the searching I did, I am kinda curious now myself.
My family is from the Lincoln/Drew County area of Southern Arkansas (as of the Civil War), so I kind of knew that for a company that old, geneological websites would be a good place to look.
I am just curious as well as to how that fob wound up in the ground where it did....that is why I did some searching for the Minnesota connection as well.
I tried just hunting for S. Childs, but found almost nothing....but then by chance I saw a Google result that had S.D. Childs, and that yielded all the info about the company. Seems they were a very prominent company in the realms of printing and engraving from at least 1860 or so until the mid-30s....
This is one reason I love the internet....anything you want to know, just go to Lord Google and ask, and he/she/it will bestow upon thee some answers! LOL!!
Happy Hunting!
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