New Spain Flota

[comfortably numb]

 

[ivan salis]

when govts make it impossible for a man to make a "honest" living , then many will be tempted to try and make a dishonest one. --- bad laws made by corrupt greedy oppressive govts often turn otherwize honest folks into criminals.

 

[aquanut]

Yeah Ivan, that's what I told Wheeler up in Tallahassee.
Aquanut

 

[Salvor6]

Ivan you are exactly correct but what the beaureucrats in Talahassee don't understand is that they are losing millions of dollars in uncollected treasure. Our state legislators need to be aware that if more EXCAVATION permits are issued, more treasure goes in to the state coffers. Right now, pirates are taking everything and not splitting 20% to the state. The two villans in Talahassee that are preventing this are Roger Smith and Ryan Wheeler. They need to be replaced with personnel more sympathetic to the recovery groups. No one in the salvage community has the balls to say this (execpt you that has been denied a permit).

 

[aquanut]

Pete,
Please don't tell anybody that we're partners!

 

[Salvor6]

OK

 

[ivan salis]

yep the state of florida archies - got me "two blocked" and from what i can see they will never give me a permit for the amelia island site 1715 fleet salvage vessel thats down in nassau sound --so let the pirate crab picking of the site begin!!!!* they just will not issue permits hardly -- so on the east coast --go 3 miles out and in the gulf side 9 miles out and F them -- as far as spain goes * the found vessel is of "unknown" origin -- just because spanish coins are on a vessel doesn't make it spanish * -- spanish coins were used heavily by all in the new world --- heck it might even be a "pirate" vessel --thus not "owned" by anyone but the "pirates" who have no legal standing at all.---so have a "nice" day is what i'd say.

by pirate crab picking * i mean let the illegal hunters have at it --since they will be the only ones that benefit from the state not issuing a set of "legal" harvest permits --- i try to do things above board and legal to avoid "legal" problems (hey who wants to go to jail? not me)-- but since the state will not allow "legal" permits --the illegal hunters will just crab pick this and many other wrecks to death (so the wrecks WILL get harvested* one way or another --but the state of florida will not get their 20% "take" and i will get nothing out of "my" wreck -- great just frickin great.--moronic state jerks)

 

[Chagy]

Dead man tell no tales

 

[aquanut]

Pete, don't tell anybody!!! O.K.

 

[ivan salis]

pete stop and think * before hammering on the keys* ----ever hear of "conspiracy"? thats a "crime" that you can be charged with when you set around talking and planning to do a illegal act --like say robbing a bank for exsample but any crime will do ( like looting a shipwreck with out the propoer permits)-- just "talking" and planning about doing a illegal act is a "illegal act" in and of its self. --and can get you jail time --even if you never actual try doing it ***thats the nasty part of the "conspiracy" law --it a "thought crime law" -- you thought or planned with others of doing a crime --so your guilty of "conspiracy"--no matter if you actually try to do it or not .

so stop and think carefully about what you post * the internet is often monitered you know.

and for all the world to see * -- i do it legal or not at all * that way theres no "legal" problems for me.

 

[Chagy]

Loose lips sink ships

 

[ivan salis]

be very care before putting pen to paper or typing any type of "record" --what you write can and will be used against you in a court of law --as well as anything you say while in front of a "police officer" or "govt" offical of any type.

---so engage brain before opening mouth or writing stuff down in any manner ( if ever arrested for "anything" ---ask for a lawyer * right away -- then shut up !!!!! =--YOU HAVE THE "RIGHT" TO REMAIN SILENT--- USE IT ) untill your lawyer gets there--and never ever sign anything --peroid -- never "confess" to anything --make them "prove" their case. --do not make their case for them by writing stuff down , thus leaving "written proof" that they can twist the meaning of or by running off at the mouth. -- cops and DA's can and do twist "words and meanings" to suit what they want them to mean to a jury , and cops are "legally" allowed to lie to you , to trick you into "confessing" to stuff , by the way.

I am proud to say that I have NEVER been arrested for ANYTHING EVER.

 

[Chagy]

Florida West Coast

Hey Pete go find me Gasparilla’s booty!!!! His flagship is supposed to have 11 million in bullion. It sank in the mouth of the Charlotte Harbor on Bell Bar 4 miles east of Boca Grande Pass in 25ft of water.

Also in the mouth of the Suwannee River there are supposed to be two wrecks. One is a galleon and the other is a schooner in 20ft of water with 5 million in indemnity money. Some chests full of gold were found up the river in Flowers Bluff.

Also in St Petersburg right in the entrance of the Bay there are a few islands, just west of the northernmost island there is supposed to be a 1829 American frigate with 10 million in gold. Pete this one is in your back yard!!!!!

I also found this report;

Earthenware handled jar, Spanish colonial, 1600s-1700s. 5 lb 2-1/2 oz, 12-1/4" tall and 7" in diameter. Tall vase with flat bottom and short neck below the rim (unlike the more typical tinajas) in orange clay with off-white encrustation on surfaces where the greenish glaze has eroded away (only traces remaining), one small handle near top, scarce as perfectly intact, another historical artifact from the early Spanish presence in Florida. Found in the vicinity of Crystal River on the west coast of Florida

 

[comfortably numb]

Chagy,
I have also read on other places about a galleon that wrecked at the suwannee
But has any one found any documentation of this in the archives? It would be interesting to know this. If they knew where it sank there would have to be a witness, thus Records. I would like to here more about this if anyone has come across it in thier research.
As for the earthenware jar here is the link to it(I hope it works)http://www.spanishmainantiques.com/browse.asp?categoryid=145
It states that it was found in the vicinity of Crystal River. I wish I knew exactly where. I do appreciate your input here, Although we have never met, you seem to be very knowledgable on these matters.
As for this thread(although it has gotten a little off topic lately, But still very funny to read )We have A large untapped area here in the gulf. Most wrecks will be hard to find because of the lack of documentation, But if we know what ships were loaded with treasure in Vera Cruz (Documentation and manifest) and what ships did not arrive in Havana (Documented, I would think).That would give us a better idea of what we may be looking for.
Believe me I am no researcher, I can not speak or read spanish. And I can only imagine what it would be like to sit in the archives reading documents for days on end till you are crosseyed. So I must reley on others who may have come across some information concerning this. If they are willing to share it.
comfortably numb

 

[Salvor6]

There is no freedom in America anymore. Now they can prosecute you for what you are thinking.

 

[ivan salis]

hells bells -- i was basically told my amelia island "project" is doilbe -- but only IF i get a hook up with a non profiet group (read university *) and get them to apply for the permits -- I was even told where to get "funding" via certain EPA grants to fund said project * --the hook ? is that if done that way --i can claim "credit" for the find and maybe write a book about it to sell or sell off the" rights" to a movie maker to film the recovery process --but of the actual "treasure" ----I get nothing --"the university, state of florida archie dept and the feds get all things recovered. "

if I attempt to get permits any other way -sorry "aquatic perserve zone" -permit denied, have a nice day.

the books title would have to be --HOW I FOUND A TREASURE WRECK AND GOT SCREWED OUT OF IT BY THE "GRUBBERMINT" FOLKS

 

[Chagy]

In 2005 Burt Webber and Darrell Gusner applied for a historical shipwreck exploration permit. The permit was denied but it shows the coordinates where they wanted to explore in Cape Romano Naples…

Point A: Lat 25 deg. 50.65 min. N; Lon 81 deg. 40.68 min. W
Point B: Lat 25 deg. 52.00 min. N; Lon 81 deg. 40.15 min. W
Point C: Lat 25 deg. 51.82 min. N; Lon 81 deg. 39.59 min. W
Point D: Lat 25 deg. 50.46 min. N; Lon 81 deg. 40.25 min. W

 

[mad4wrecks]

That area may (or may not have ) been side scanned just a few years ago. Dead men tell no tales and the guy is dead for sure.

 

[JoeSWFla]

Yes that area has been surveyed,and was thought to be
too much trouble and not lucrative enough.Tremendous
amount of sanding in that area.Poor water conditions(vis),
but a great place to shark fish(I can attest to that personally).
HH Joe

 

[Salvor6]

I was contacted by the fisherman who has the GPS numbers on this wreck. His buddy found it in 1984 and has been trying to get a permit since then. He died before he could get a permit. I think its not worth anything- small ballast pile (30' by 40') and smack in the backyard of Calusa country in 16' deep water.
You're right Joe, 3' vis, Black Tip sharks, Bull sharks and Hammerheads not to mention the gators. I called Dr. Roger Smith in Talahassee last week about this wreck and he said "If you're not a non-profit institute, forget about it."