Old Rifle? Brass Help Revisited w/ Measurements

[cambria09]

Hello All. I posted the thread below a couple of days ago:

http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/what/402299-old-rifle-brass-help.html

The consenus was that this round came from a 45-70 or maybe a 50-70 but more precise measurements were needed to be sure. So here they are.



On closer inspection I do agree with BosnMate regarding it being made of copper. The base measurement pretty much matches BosnMate's number of .608 but the OD of the case is way off for a 45-70.

So is this thing a 50-70 or something else? Wickepdia says that a 50-70's case OD should be .535 and I measure .520...I guess corrosion could acount for the missing .015 especially since it is made of copper.

Let me know what you think and thanks for the input. HH C9

 

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[NHBandit]

It's not of any great value. Taking a wire wheel to the bottom of the base should reveal some markings.

 

[pistol-pete]

Just measured one of my 45-70's. There are several other calibers that use the same head measurements. What is the length? That should help.

 

[cambria09]

Hi pistol-pete. Thanks for the reply. Sadly the original length is no more, 1.360-IN is all that I have left. C9

 

[BosnMate]

I have a loaded .45-70 with a base just like the found one, without any head stamp. If found case does have a head stamp it will probably be very light, my guess an F and two numbers, one for month the other for year. Those head stamps are in so lightly, that a wire wheel would remove them along with the corrosion. He can't measure the length because it's eaten away. However, the length of a .50-70 is quite a bit shorter than the 45, which is 2.105, while the .50-70 is 1.75, so if the remains of your case are longer than 1.75 you know it's not a .50-70. That leaves foreign brass, which there are some that come really close to the .45-70, and I'm not really familiar with that. I shoot .45-70 and did shoot .50-70 in the past, so that's where my interest lies. I know there is at least one from Mexico, which I have seen, and it's base was just like your find, and another from Europe somewhere, that I haven't seen, and those are measured in mm's, and are really close the the .45-70 in size. The .50-70 was in government use from 1866 until 1873 when it was replaced by the .45-70 and lasted clear past 1900 in some national guard units. After 1873 the .50-70 was used by civilians for a long time, Buffalo Bill being one. My swag is if it doesn't measure out to either of those two cartridges, it's probably Mexican.

 

[cambria09]

I have a loaded .45-70 with a base just like the found one, without any head stamp. If found case does have a head stamp it will probably be very light, my guess an F and two numbers, one for month the other for year. Those head stamps are in so lightly, that a wire wheel would remove them along with the corrosion. He can't measure the length because it's eaten away. However, the length of a .50-70 is quite a bit shorter than the 45, which is 2.105, while the .50-70 is 1.75, so if the remains of your case are longer than 1.75 you know it's not a .50-70. That leaves foreign brass, which there are some that come really close to the .45-70, and I'm not really familiar with that. I shoot .45-70 and did shoot .50-70 in the past, so that's where my interest lies. I know there is at least one from Mexico, which I have seen, and it's base was just like your find, and another from Europe somewhere, that I haven't seen, and those are measured in mm's, and are really close the the .45-70 in size. The .50-70 was in government use from 1866 until 1873 when it was replaced by the .45-70 and lasted clear past 1900 in some national guard units. After 1873 the .50-70 was used by civilians for a long time, Buffalo Bill being one. My swag is if it doesn't measure out to either of those two cartridges, it's probably Mexican.

Hello BosnMate. Thanks for the great reply. All that is left of the case is ~1.36-IN. From all the info, the location of the site, and other items I have found there I am thinking this was a 50-70 fired around 1890 to the 1900's.

I know it is of no value my interest is purely academic as I have found old ammo can be a good indicator of when a site was occupied.

Thanks again and my the finds be with you. C9

BTW I agree that using a wire wheel will not work in/on this case.