Opinion on this awesome 1700’s bottle?!

[Courtzzy]

This bottle is so so so cool to me, but I would love some of yalls thoughts on the age of the bottle! Been told it’s 1700’s? Possibly early 1800’s? Believe it does have a pontil on the bottom. All original label and cork covering. Never been opened! Still has all of its original contents. It’s a French bottle (obviously) haha and says “ Four Thieves Vinegar”. It was believed to ward off the plague!! It was supposedly made by Briard who was a famous perfumer during the last quarter of the 1700’s- 1828 when he went bankrupt due to moving location of his shop! Too good to be true or an awesome find!? Let me know what y’all think! I trust your opinions!! Thank you!!! I think it’s a sweet little bottle! Love the spooky look of it!

 

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[villagenut]

Very nice bottle there.....definitely a non dug example, I love the label. Yes, an oldie for sure

 

[Courtzzy]

Do you think it could be from the later half of the 1700’s? Or more likely 1800’s? I’ve never seen a pontil like that on a bottle before! I found one bottle with a pontil before but it’s an open pontil from the 1840’s-50’s. Is that what they refer to as a sanded pontil? Sorry only been bottle digging/collecting for about a year! Still trying to learn all the info! Anyways, It’s actually a bottle I’m thinking about purchasing! But I almost felt like it was too good to be true. Haha I wanted some opinions on it! I mean the label looks impeccable!! But thank you so much for the quick reply!

 

[smokeythecat]

That's an awesome specimen. I don't think 1700's because of the technology they had. I'm thinking ca 1860 due to the way the bottom is made.

 

[Courtzzy]

Says in the description that it has a pontil base. Does that look like a pontil scar to you? I couldn’t tell!

 

[villagenut]

Looks like a pontil scar to me which would date it to the first half of the 1800s but I maybe would be suspect of the label being so well stuck to the bottle after all those years. Labels can be added to bottles for more collectability and pricing purposes. Whether that is the case here, I defer to others....perhaps Harry, Sandchip or other more knoledgable folks.

 

[sandchip]

Looks like a solid rod pontil to me, which was used more widely in Europe than the US. Any reliable information on the type location/conditions it was found, like dry cellar or attic, age of building, etc.?

 

[Courtzzy]

This is what he told me word for word! Just copied it!
“I recently purchased a wonderful American Federal period (1780-1810) inlaid doctor's traveling box that was found in an old house in Beverly Farms, Massachusetts, which is north of Boston on the seacoast. The box would have been very expensive in its time, and also today due to the quality and rarity. Inside the box are a set of 10 matching octagonal blown glass medicine bottle, one having a Boston label. So those are all American and from the same time period as the box, and all are empty. This bottle is French so I decided to sell it separately. I researched both the name "Briard" and the "Four Thieves Vinegar", and I found small references to both. Briard worked in Paris from the late 1700s to the early 1800s, and the vinegar was a cure for the plague. There is nothing about this bottle that seems like it is not authentic. The contents have dried and adhered to the sides of the bottle, and the stopper is stiff and hard and dried up from age. You would break the bottle trying to open it at this point, so its like it is petrified on there”.
Seems pretty legit to me! But you never know! Haha.

 

[Harry Pristis]

Nice find. I have some difficulty buying into the 1700s idea. I think it's more likely to be a first-half of the 19th Century bottle. It's an odd label with no bragging about the effectiveness of the contents. It does appear to have a sheared lip with an applied(?) ring which is age-appropriate. The pontil scar is not a sand pontil. It appears to be from a glass-tipped iron rod pontil which is also age-appropriate to the early 1800s. I have more than a few French bottles, but none like this one. Lots of French foodstuffs were imported to the US in the 1800s.

 

[gemee]

Harry, you have googled every word on that bottle, haven't you? What exactly does it say?

 

[Courtzzy]

I researched It a lot when I found the bottle. It translates to “Four Thieves Vinegar”! At the top where the Pope/priest guy is it translates to “To the Bishop”! And at the bottom is Briard who was a perfumer from Paris!

 

[sandchip]

Was the seller able to provide a picture of the bottle in the box with the other contents as found, before cleaning, and before any of the items had been removed?

 

[Courtzzy]

Just asked now! We’ll see! He said the box with the other American bottles is already promised out to someone, but I asked for a photo of it. I’m just genuinely so intrigued by it and would love to see it!! He said it was like in amazing condition! Hopefully he’ll send photos!

 

[Mackaydon]

Some interesting history (or legend) about the four thieves:'
[FONT=&quot]True story or urban legend. [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]""Thieves oil" originated from around the 15th century, when the bubonic plague was killing thousands throughout Europe and Asia. Four thieves were notorious for robbing the infectious dead bodies of all their possessions. The thieves however, miraculously, never contracted the highly infectious plague. This led to an inquiry in court after they were caught and charged. The magistrate offered them a deal, their secret for a reduced sentence. Taking the deal, they told stories of their knowledge of essential oils and their powerful medicinal properties when combined in certain ways. This specific oil that they had created, concocted from aromatic herbs and oils, was HIGHLY EFFECTIVE in killing all of the airborne bacteria. In fact, in 1997, Weber State University did a study that found this oil to have a 99.96% success rate at killing airborne bacteria. We don’t know whether or not this story is true, but we do know the essential oils are antiseptic, antiviral, antibacterial, and anti-infectious. They will stimulate the immune system, circulation and respiratory system, and help protect against the flu, colds, bronchitis, pneumonia, sore throats, cuts, and more."
I wonder how well it would do against CoVID19?
Source of article; https://www.facebook.com/theworldse...om-around-the-15th-century-w/322629174604094/
Don....

[/FONT]

 

[sandchip]

Some interesting history (or legend) about the four thieves:'
True story or urban legend.
""Thieves oil" originated from around the 15th century, when the bubonic plague was killing thousands throughout Europe and Asia. Four thieves were notorious for robbing the infectious dead bodies of all their possessions. The thieves however, miraculously, never contracted the highly infectious plague. This led to an inquiry in court after they were caught and charged. The magistrate offered them a deal, their secret for a reduced sentence. Taking the deal, they told stories of their knowledge of essential oils and their powerful medicinal properties when combined in certain ways. This specific oil that they had created, concocted from aromatic herbs and oils, was HIGHLY EFFECTIVE in killing all of the airborne bacteria. In fact, in 1997, Weber State University did a study that found this oil to have a 99.96% success rate at killing airborne bacteria. We don’t know whether or not this story is true, but we do know the essential oils are antiseptic, antiviral, antibacterial, and anti-infectious. They will stimulate the immune system, circulation and respiratory system, and help protect against the flu, colds, bronchitis, pneumonia, sore throats, cuts, and more."
I wonder how well it would do against CoVID19?
Source of article; https://www.facebook.com/theworldse...om-around-the-15th-century-w/322629174604094/
Don....

Cures colds, moles and sore a$$holes!

 

[epackage]

Jean-Baptiste Alexandre Briard was indeed in the perfume business in Paris in the late 1700's and died in April or May of 1810, while I don't know if someone continued operating his business it is very possible this bottle dates to that period, which is mind boggling given the condition...

I think it was a very good buy at the price you paid for it.