🔎 UNIDENTIFIED Ottoman Coins on a sword,plz help with I'd, authentic? Year? Mint?

[Joecoins]

Hi to all,
been awhile since I posted any of my finds... These coins I'm having difficulty identifying and could realy use some help.
Much appreciated if possible and thanks.

Ceremonial / status peice ,
a rendition of zulfikar

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Treasure of Victoria Peak - Grab it through Amazon!

[Mackaydon]

The Arabic date appears to be 1227. If so, it equates to 'our' date of 1812.
The image on the other side is called a tughra; the unique signature of the Ottoman Sultan. The appearance of Ottoman tughras goes back to the 14th century. The story goes that one Sultan was asked to write his signature. Not knowing how to write, he dipped three fingers into the ink well and made this mark. Since then each sultan has had a similar, but different tughra signature.
Don........

 

[Mackaydon]

That said, I have difficulty saying one coin is authetic. The 'lattice' appearance in image 4518 on the tughra's verticle three parallel marks and the 'lazy' loop within the outer loop look contrived.
I anxiously wait to read other opinions. Can the OP also show the date side of the second coin.?
Don in SoCal.

 

[GlowingArtist]

Suspected tourist brass faux piece circa 1965-90?

 

[Joecoins]

Hi Don,
Thanks for the quick reply
There is 3 coins total
The handle coin 4518, the central coin that shows some info, and a coin on the tip that also shows a tughra
Thanks for sharing that story of the tughra never actually heard that before, cool to learn something new. Unfortunately the coins are soldered. I can't show the other sides.

 

[Joecoins]

Also forgot to enquire and would help in my research... What denomination?

 

[Mackaydon]

What are the diameters in mm?
Don in SoCal

 

[Joecoins]

What are the diameters in mm?
Don in SoCal

All three the diameter is essentially 21.5mm
The thickness is hard to measure but maybe between 1.5-2 mm
Thanks
My regards Joe

 

[Mackaydon]

This will be 'TMI'......
I didn't look up the diameter to determine the denomination; that can be done online.
In the event the coin was authentic, weight would determine the demonination.
SILVER COINAGE OF MAHMÜD II
Second Series- ReignYears 2-13
Denomination Weight in grains
Beshlik (5 Ghurush) 389.0
Yüzlük 205.2
Ghurush 146.2
Yirmilik 69.0
Onluq 43.5
Beshlik (5 Para) 23.1
Para 3.7
Aqcheh 1.5
The standard denomination of the day was the Ghurush.
It's weight (146.2 grains) is equal to 9.47 grams (versus 11.5g for a JKF '64 half $)
Don in SoCal.

 

[Red-Coat]

Cool looking thing, but I think not earlier than the 1920s.

The ‘coins’ are definitely replicas. They appear to be (not very good) imitations of gold 100 kurus coins, which were commonly produced in brass as nostalgic pieces for decorative purposes after the departure of the last Ottoman sultan in 1922. The original gold coins would be 22-23mm diameter.

Since we can’t see both sides of each ‘coin’, that makes it a little more difficult but the two showing the obverses appear to have the Tughra for Mehmed V (1909-1918). For the one showing the reverse, it has the usual inscription reading “May he be Victorious / Struck in Constantinople” followed by the Islamic (Hijri) year in Arabic numerals. Taking a closer look at that date, I think it has been imprecisely copied and is not ‘1227’ but intended as ‘1327’ (1909 in western terms). The Arabic numerals for ‘2’ and ‘3’ are easily confused when badly written.

If it were 1227 then it would be Mahmud II, but the design would be wrong for a coin of his reign. If it were 1327 then it would be Abdul Hamid II (1876-1909) and the design is correct for a 100 kurus of his reign. The same reverse design was used for Mehmed V from 1909 onwards.

Here’s a comparison, showing the obverse for a Mehmed V 100 kurus coin and the reverse for an Abdul Hamid II coin which is dated 1327. Note the similarity between ٣ (three) and ٢ (two).

 

[Joecoins]

Thanks both for some good info.
I did suspect gold coins or counterfeit coins. I have a few silver Ottoman coins and they just don't compare.

The sword I acquired recently on eBay from a seller in zarqua Jordan. He described it as a boot knife... Brass plated... Possibly an AI description.

On first glance I thought it Berber quality with Asian flair and at a good price, seemingly a type of qama or kindjal. I scooped it up immediatly. Next day in research I figured out it was a likely rendition of zulfikar.
In the learned words of an expert whose opinion I value
""commemorative versions were never intended for battle or anything but ceremonial use, and weapons for high station individuals."
also that it is very like Yemeni swords Wich are often silver. And it has Persian / Caucasian style.
the sword seath and handle are wood with a layer of sheet metal. I like to suspect gold gilt over silver.

 

[Joecoins]

Just took a look for a pair of jewelers calipers, I should have a couple but couldn't find them.. I hope to measure the coins again to be shure.. perhaps they could be 22 mm...
I probably will get the whole thing looked at by a jeweler at some point . And I will provide some updates then

 

[Red-Coat]

Just took a look for a pair of jewelers calipers, I should have a couple but couldn't find them.. I hope to measure the coins again to be shure.. perhaps they could be 22 mm...
I probably will get the whole thing looked at by a jeweler at some point . And I will provide some updates then

Decorative imitations won't necessarily have exactly the same diameter as the coins from which they are loosely copied. Yours have the beaded rim which is present on 100 kurus coins replaced by a solid rim.

 

[Mackaydon]

Ottoman coins of this period did not show their nominal value (denomination); instead, the value of each coin was differentiated by its weight, diameter and metallic composition.
Don in SoCal.

 

[Joecoins]

Special thanks to Mackaydon and Redcoat for helping me get info on the coins. Its cool to know what it says and the potential dates. I'm Fairly certain it is an old copy . I couldn't find any recent copies without the reeded rim. I have heard of jewelers copies, so I will prolly get the coins looked at. But I am quite certain they are as suggested copies..
I tried to edit the post and mark it as solved. Couldn't yet find a way.
But I do feel my questions on the peice have definitely been answered and solved

 

[oldmxrat]

To mark a thread as solved, hit edit on the original first post, go to the title, just to left of title is a drop-down menu, select "Solved" then hit save.

 

[Joecoins]

To mark a thread as solved, hit edit on the original first post, go to the title, just to left of title is a drop-down menu, select "Solved" then hit save.

I have tried now on both my android and my home computer, I can not edit my first post or earlier posts, I can only edit my most recent ones. there is not button "..." like on others.
perhaps because I have already edited it once? can someone look into this?