Pancho Villas Silver

[Old Bookaroo]

Pancho Villa's Silver

Howdy!

Perhaps this has already been posted, but I found it quite interesting so I'm taking a chance that it is new - at least to some TreasureNet Forum readers:

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/1999/05/05/MN17884.DTL

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

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[cactusjumper]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Bookaroo,

Bob Chandler is probably one of the most knowledgeable historians alive, on the history of Wells Fargo.

I talked at length with him, concerning the alleged shipment of gold ore to the "Sacramento Mint" by Jacob Waltz, of Lost Dutchman fame.

I suspect Pancho Villa may have stolen more than silver during the revolution. Gold

Interesting article......Many thanks.

Take care,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Siegfried Schlagrule]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

According to the diary of one of Villa's many lieutenants when he was raiding he led a pack train. Anything stolen was hauled. When the mules were all loaded and more was stolen silver was off-loaded and replaced with gold. The silver was then hidden nearby. When a mule broke a leg it would also be offloaded. I no longer have access to that diary and don't know where the owner lives now. He and i used it as a road map for our activities in Mexico with limited success around 1970. siegfried schlagrule

 

[Peerless67]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

I often wonder what he had stashed away

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Peerless67:

Thank you for the newspaper articles!

May I ask you - and anyone else who posts articles - please include the newspaper name and date! It makes all the difference in the world to the serious researcher.

Thanx again!

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Good afternoon bookaroo: I have always been curious. At the end of villas career, he was effectively out of money and his few remaining troops were unpaid. If he had tons of loot buried, as is commonly supposed, why did he then raid New Mexico, knowing that it would create a hornets nest in both Mexico and US?? he would be hunted by both sides with no place to go.

Later he was awarded a pension and the meat contract in Chihuahua by the govt. to get him settled down. His widow never had any money and had to ask for a pension also, which she received. She always claimed that he had no buried loot, that he had spent it all on arms and munitions. His last effort was to create his army which was destroyed by Obregon since he had never learned about self covering, interlocking machine gun fire. He never recovered from this. The remnants of his army were half starved when he hit New Mexico.

Just curious and ill informed.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Jose,

Villa had his reasons, not the least of which was revenge. I believe two key names would be Obregon (Eeek! Make that Carranza.) and El Paso. There were, of course, other reaons as well.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Don Jose de La Mancha:

i happen to agree with you.

Pirates, brigands, bandits - why did they spend their lives of crime stealing money and then hiding it rather than spending it? Were the rum palaces of Port Royal vacant because the pirates were off on deserted desert isles, burying their plunder in the sand of a thousand beaches rather than tossing it across the plank for a noggin and a wench?

Along with spending his adult life sleeping in caves rather than in buildings with a roof, why did Jesse James steal so much loot only to plant it?

And ole Pancho Villa - what self respecting horse outlaw would actually use his ill-gotten gold and silver to pay, feed, and arm his army when he could stash it away for future fortunate generations?

I do believe there was something of a cottage industry among Gen. Villa's widows to sell treasure maps and waybills to greedy gringos. But that's another story...

Adios,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[gollum]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Bookie,

Then maybe you can explain why Emil Holmdahl, who was an American Captain (former) on Villa's Staff, spent the next twenty or so years looking for Villa's Hidden Gold. I think that a man like that would have been in a position to know if there was really gold or if it were all stories.

Best-Mike

 

[Peerless67]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Bookie,

Then maybe you can explain why Emil Holmdahl, who was an American Captain (former) on Villa's Staff, spent the next twenty or so years looking for Villa's Hidden Gold. I think that a man like that would have been in a position to know if there was really gold or if it were all stories.

Best-Mike

You pose a good question Mike, and absolutely Holmdahl knew what he was looking for. It is documented quite well that Holmdahl and Odo Stade bought approximately 30 tons of gold into the US for arms deals on Villas behalf.
Holmdahl was one of Villas most trusted and certainly was privy to exactly what Villa had been taking. His search continued from 1923 to at least 1937 hardly the actions of someone who never believed there was a treasure to be had.

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Did Holmdahl search in the Superstitions?

Just curious.

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Peerless67]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Peerless67:

Thank you for the newspaper articles!

May I ask you - and anyone else who posts articles - please include the newspaper name and date! It makes all the difference in the world to the serious researcher.

Thanx again!

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

Bookaroo, I have 100s of articles but they are all in pdf format, so posting them here requires me to print from the screen and then crop and paste the news articles. I am about to load them in another forum as this one wont let me load the whole pdf files. you can visit the site by clicking the website link under my avatar. I should get them up over the next few weeks.
Also I have access to many newspaper articles from just about any date if you should need anything in paticular just pm me

 

[Peerless67]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Did Holmdahl search in the Superstitions?

Just curious.

Joe Ribaudo

Joe Im not sure that he searched in Az, although I believe his second bride was from there. they married in Nevada I think (will need to check for sure) He often traveled to Az during the unrest in Mexico to do arms deals on Villas behalf though.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Well ladies guys: IF YOU DISAGREE WITH "ME", YOU OBVIOUSLY AREN'T GENTLEMEN..

Seriously, if Villa buried a lot of loot as is commonly imagined, and our Soldier of fortune knew of it, why is there only one reference to him supposedly looking for one? It is quite questionable if he actually ever found it, just a vague reference "they had stolen it", and why was he never effectively rich?

Could the later searches be aligned with the general trend to produce treasure maps, or lost mines, then find gullible investors to milk for $$$ ? Why did he spend years in a bookshop etc IF he had reasonable knowledge of a possible Villa treasure??

Why were Villa's family in need of a govt pension? They, more than anyone else, would know if he had any appreciable amount of $$ or valuables secreted some where. Men DO love to talk to their gals in intimate times, why female spies were / are so successful.

Any of you gals out there want to hear my confessions?? Sorry gollum, Cj, peereless, etc.,

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Old Bookaroo]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

gollum:

I can't explain the actions of another. I have enough trouble figuring out why I do some stuff...

I would not say that no pirate ever buried his treasure. Or bandit. Or Pancho Villa, for that matter. Documented evidence shows that they did - and that some of it has been found.

What often seems to get lost is the primary business these folks were in. Did Jesse James spend his entire life stealing money only to bury it? That just doesn't make sense to me. Along with apparently always sleeping in a cave, but that's another story.

Did the Japanese army during WWII spend every waking minute hiding gold? I think not. I suggest a good part of each day went towards their pursuit of the 19th Century political model of colonizing other nations and exploiting their resources. Did the German army during WWII hide loot? Of course some people did. Most of the plunder, however, was shipped home - much of it hidden at the end of the war, of course, and much (but not all) has been found. Same with Napoleon's army, and on back through time.

Regarding your question - you can turn it around. If this gentleman was on the ground, part of Villa's army, knew all that he knew and spent all those years searching - why didn't he find it? What does that say about someone's chances some seventy or eighty years later accomplishing what he could not? Or did he...?

There is a very important difference between being a skeptic and being a cynic. I suspect cynics never become treasure hunters. Skeptics can not only be treasure hunters - they can be treasure finders...

Good luck to all,

~The Old Bookaroo

 

[Peerless67]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Only one reference RDT? I have many more than 1, ive posted a couple before.

"and why was he never effectively rich?" Villa or Holmdahl?

Which one of Villas wifes do you think he would have trusted RDT? why his own relative Corral/Luz ? was involved with raiding his tomb.


PS. I wonder who was running that bookshop. http://www.theshriek.net/odo.01.html

 

[Peerless67]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Bookaroo, Quote "Regarding your question - you can turn it around. If this gentleman was on the ground, part of Villa's army, knew all that he knew and spent all those years searching - why didn't he find it? What does that say about someone's chances some seventy or eighty years later accomplishing what he could not? Or did he...?"

That, I believe, is the $20,000,000 question at 1950 gold prices.

 

[Peerless67]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Joe, Im getting old the article here was posted in the Yuma Daily Sun and Yuma Arizona Sentinal Jan 22nd 1938 page 5.
Heading "licenced to wed"
Both bride and groom listed as LA residents

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Gary,

My question was not a casual one. It all ties into the Stone Maps, Harry LaFrance's cave of gold bars and a fellow by the name of Ted DeGrazia. It's all speculation, based on true factual evidence.

As for Pancho not having any money at the time of his death........I don't doubt that at all. You must remember that Villa started out as a bandit. His friends were bandits, and his army did not exactly have clean hands. It's not far fetched that someone in his army stole pilfered gold from the General.

Ted DeGrazia had a friend and partner, who claimed he rode with Pancho Villa. They searched the Superstition Mountains, they said, for the LDM.

My story on this tale is a long one. It involves family and friends. Only one of those people is still alive. IMHO, the speculation has legs. For all of that, it remains speculation.

My uncle and friends each held a gold bar/ingot in their hands. It was tested, and was the real thing. It was brought to them by Harry LaFrance. I would bet everything I have that this statement is true, even though I did not personally see the gold bar.

Take care,

Joe

 

[cactusjumper]

Re: Pancho Villa's Silver

Something else of interest:
_________________________________________________

Cedar Rapids Republican
Cedar Rapids, Linn Co. Iowa
February 9, 1926

Body of Villa Decapitated; Iowa Man Jailed as Suspect.

El Paso, Tex., Feb. 9 (U.P.) - Accused of opening the grave and decapitating
The corpse of Francisco Villa, noted Mexican rebel chieftain Emil Holmdahl, American soldier of fortune, and Alberto Corral, Mexican, are being held in jail today at Parral, Mexico, according to word received here. Reports said Villa's head was carried about the streets of Parral and then sent to Columbus, N.M. Where Villa's band of rebels killed several Americans during
A raid in 1916. Holmdahl, whose parents live in Ft. Dodge, Ia., was purchasing agent for Villa at one time and later was decorated for bravery
While serving in the American army overseas during the world war. Lieut. Col. A.A. King, retired, who is Holmdahl's partner, in Mexican mining ventures, was making efforts today to secure Homdahl's release and offered telegrams to prove his partner was in Durango the night Villa's grave was said to have been opened. Villa was killed three years ago by former members of his band.

[*note: Emil L. Holmdahl was born in Ft. Dodge, Iowa in 1883. He first enlisted in the 61st Iowa Infantry and served in the Philippine insurrection. Later he joined the adventurer Lee Christmas in Honduras and fought in the Central American "banana wars". In 1926, while Emil Holmdahl Was on a "prospecting and hunting trip" to Mexico, he was arrested for desecrating Villa's tomb. Influential friends in the US arranged for his release and he returned to the United States. Emil Holmdahl died on April 4,1963 in Van Nuys, California.]
____________________________________________

Joe Ribaudo