In the Direction of the Sun - The Story of the Lost Mine of Tubac - 1924

Old Bookaroo

Silver Member
Dec 4, 2008
4,371
3,577
for FEBRUARY 15, 1924.



"In the Direction of the Sun"

By KIRBY THOMAS, Mining Engineer.

The story of the lost mine of Tubac



"En la direccion del Sol a las quatro de la tarde en el dia viente uno de Junio." ["In the direction of the Sun at four o'clock in the afternoon on the twenty-first day of June."] These are the explicit directions transcribed into my notes from the ancient church records. After nearly a week's search for the "mine of Tubac", we are again in the straggling Indian village of the same name as the old mine, a Spanish "antigua", the location of which has been entirely lost through the mutations of time during the two or more centuries since its operation.

At Tubac is a "mission", a block-like affair of mud walls, once white, with a characteristic arch of unequal arms for a bell and a crumbled portico facing to the north. On this portico we had stood a few days since and looked "in the direction of the sun at four o'clock on the 21st day of June", as the old record had prescribed, to lay our course for a trip to locate the "lost mine of Tubac".

Tubac J. Ross Browne.png

Tubac - J. Ross Browne - 1869

The story of our adventure is not an exciting one, but now, after our high expectations have ended in doubt, to say the least, it seems worthy of being recorded. While I was in Mexico City several years ago I received a letter from an old time mining friend in Arizona, in which he asked me to make a search of the archives in the Mexican libraries for the purpose of finding some information which might enable him to locate a famous "lost" mine of which traditions were still extant in his locality. The mine was called Tubac after a pueblo, or village, of that name in which there was a church mission not un¬ like half a hundred others in the south¬ west. The name Tubac was reported to mean, in the Indian language, "the place of water". This information was my clue, and I was expected to find from the scanty records of the days of the early Spanish occupancy data which would lead to the rediscovery of this early day "bonanza" mine. In the "Biblioteca [sic] Nacional" I found the archives of the Catholic Church from the very earliest days all in fairly good order and certainly very interesting as human documents.

In a dusty and yellowed volume, bound in pigskin, hardened by age to the stiffness of iron, I found quiantly [sic] scribed the records of the numerous "missions" which the tireless and zealous Catholic "Padres" had founded and sustained in the then far borderland of Spanish domain, now a part of the state of Arizona. These told of the founding of the missions, of Indian massacres and of matters of trivial but timely import, of the conversion of the Indians and of the discovery and operation of the rich silver mines. The church's liberal toll of the products of these mines was enumerated orderly and occasionally some notes of comment on the mines and their great richness were included. There was a description of the mine known as "Plancha de Plata" (Plank of Silver) and the "Salero" (Salt Cellar). The "plank of silver" found in the mine so designated was described as being as big as the "top of the table", which is not very definite to one of engineering habits or measurements. However, it was considered that the "find" was so important that it was sent intact to the king of Spain, either through gratitude or in hope of due regal reward. This contribution to the king was of course in addition to the liberal tithe exacted for the royal exchequer.

It is not told in these church records, but in later secular writings, that the king was so interested in the donation that he ordered the mine confiscated to the crown. Finally reference to the mine of Tubac was found. It was described as "muy requisma" (very rich) and the record set forth its location with reference to the mission as was customary at the time in terms of the sun and the almanac. Further, the scribe told of some sturdy and fruitful pear trees, transplanted from far off Spain, which were growing near the mission. No further data or description was to be found.

Some years later, finding myself in the region referred to in this old record, and having some time to spare, I decided to visit my friend and to inquire of him concerning the mine of Tubac. It seems that he had not followed up the ancient clue, partly because, as is the wont with miners and desert habitats, he did not have the time, but chiefly because the locality indicated by the directions was one not considered promising for mines or mineral deposits of any kind. However, he was still interested in the matter and he was very willing to venture with me in the quest, and he promptly offered to provide horses and ample and suitable equipment for a several days' desert trip.

Tubac, today, is a cluster of a half score or so of "adobe" huts, looking like demounted freight cars straggled on the gray edges of patches and squares of alfalfa and other products, vivid green in contrast with the general color schemes of the desert region, and resulting from the rare perennial springs at this "place of the water". There was also the mission, very old and similar in architectural design to the other and better known missions of the southwest, many of which can trace a direct historical record back a couple of hundred years or more to the days when the padres and the intrepid Spanish miners first came into the country on their respective quests.

Tubac Presidio - 1908.JPG

Tubac - The Presidio - 1908

I soon felt very sure that this was the mission referred to in the old records and that from its portico the mine of Tubac had been visible as described. Taking the course from the portico by compass and nautical almanac, we laid out our plans for the search. A long rocky slope stretched ahead, a day's travel or more to the crest, and beyond that another blue and mysterious ridge flanking the main range which lay to the west out of our line of vision. No mine was known in this allotted and prescribed segment and our general interpretations of the geological formations and conditions were not very encouraging.

It was planned to start at dawn and to camp on the near crest the first night. This would permit of some general investigations of the country through which we were to ride and of the customary and comfortable "siesta" during the hot hours of the day. It was decided to take with us the local "jefe", a "squawman" of Scandinavian descent, and a Mexican by the name of Pedro, "muy viejo y muy sabioso" (very old and very knowing), according to local report.

Two days were spent in hard, hot traversing of the first slope without result and at the end we were camped on the crest, still in sight of our beacon, the mission. Pedro, who had become stolidly interested in our purposes, told us that there was no mine in the area we were investigating, but he did not venture any elucidation of the record nor discussion of the local traditions of the "lost" mine with which we found he was familiar.

Tubac Map 1810.png


An Account of Expeditions to the Sources of the Mississippi, and Through the Western Parts of Louisiana, to the Sources of the Arkansaw, Kans, La Platte, and Pierre Jaun, Rivers; ... During the Years 1805, 1806, and 1807. And a Tour Through the Interior Parts of New Spain, When Conducted Through These Provinces, by order of The Captain-General, in the year 1807. By Major Z.M. Pike. [1810]

We decided to advance to the farther ridge and to explore there, keeping within the limits of the angle of vision and the area of visibility from our basing point the north portico of the Tubac mission. We traversed all the ragged and cactus-punctuated slope and examined every exposed rock and projecting cliff, for this was our last hope to find the lost mine of Tubac, and we still had full faith in the veracity and accuracy of the nameless recorder on whose information we were acting. It did not seem within reason to doubt the competency of the record, nor did it seem likely that our experienced search had overlooked any possible trace of an ancient mine working, especially one singled out of many for the favorable comment of a contemporary.

We had about decided to give up the search and to return to the village, when the silent Pedro, a good listener, though he understood our English conversation imperfectly, asked permission to speak with the "Senor Capitan", meaning me. He said that he and his ancestors had known by oral tradition of the famous mine of Tubac and that they, too, had searched for it in vain, as we had. He had believed that it was close to the mission, but he did not have the more explicit location and direction than my search of the archives had contributed to the subject and the association of the "pear trees" with the mission and the mine was a new idea. He then told me of some very old stumps of trees in a valley several miles to the westward which he believed to be the remains of "trees of fruit" and that there were indications that the place had once been the site of a pueblo, probably very long ago, when there was more water than now in the locality.

With new hope we journeyed westward far out of vision of the mission and late at night camped near the place which Pedro had described. It was as he had said. There were stumps of trees, not indigenous to the region, which we determined to be of the pear tree variety from an examination of the wood and the bark. That there had been a settlement there was evident from the scattered but almost obliterated rows of loose stones and from the small mounds of earth, perhaps the last crumbled evidence of adobe houses. There probably had been a mission, too, but this could not be determined.

What was more important was the fact that a few miles away was a mine visible from the site of the vanished village and quite exactly in the direction as described in the church archives. The mine is today known as "Cerro Colorado" and has been worked by the Americans since the late fifties. There is no modern history to tell whether this mine had been worked before by the Spaniards, but presumably so, for the "red hill", the English equivalent of the present day name of the mine, must have been known to the early mining adventurers who were skilled in prospecting for mineral deposits and who went into the most remote places of this then remote region in their quest for the rich and easily treated silver ores which were often found in such outcrops.

Arrastra.png

"El Arastra" - J. Ross Browne (1869) - Not at Tubac

This is all of the story. I do not know whether we found the lost mine of Tubac or not. Pedro thinks we did. At any rate, the thrill and fascination of the local tradition has gone for all of our party. Perhaps other adventurers may take up the search anew and prove the error of our deductions, which are that the Tubac of the old records was located at the place of the pear trees and later, either because of the cessation of mining or because of climatic changes which affected the necessary water supply, the village and the mission were transferred to a new site now recorded on the maps by a small black dot. For myself, I am strongly inclined to agree with Pedro.

~ The Arizona Mining Journal (Vol. 7, No. 18)

------- o0o -------
Good luck to all,
The Old Bookaroo
 

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flyangelz

Jr. Member
Jan 16, 2023
51
25
for FEBRUARY 15, 1924.



"In the Direction of the Sun"

By KIRBY THOMAS, Mining Engineer.

The story of the lost mine of Tubac



"En la direccion del Sol a las quatro de la tarde en el dia viente uno de Junio." ["In the direction of the Sun at four o'clock in the afternoon on the twenty-first day of June."] These are the explicit directions transcribed into my notes from the ancient church records. After nearly a week's search for the "mine of Tubac", we are again in the straggling Indian village of the same name as the old mine, a Spanish "antigua", the location of which has been entirely lost through the mutations of time during the two or more centuries since its operation.

At Tubac is a "mission", a block-like affair of mud walls, once white, with a characteristic arch of unequal arms for a bell and a crumbled portico facing to the north. On this portico we had stood a few days since and looked "in the direction of the sun at four o'clock on the 21st day of June", as the old record had prescribed, to lay our course for a trip to locate the "lost mine of Tubac".

View attachment 2101852
Tubac - J. Ross Browne - 1869

The story of our adventure is not an exciting one, but now, after our high expectations have ended in doubt, to say the least, it seems worthy of being recorded. While I was in Mexico City several years ago I received a letter from an old time mining friend in Arizona, in which he asked me to make a search of the archives in the Mexican libraries for the purpose of finding some information which might enable him to locate a famous "lost" mine of which traditions were still extant in his locality. The mine was called Tubac after a pueblo, or village, of that name in which there was a church mission not un¬ like half a hundred others in the south¬ west. The name Tubac was reported to mean, in the Indian language, "the place of water". This information was my clue, and I was expected to find from the scanty records of the days of the early Spanish occupancy data which would lead to the rediscovery of this early day "bonanza" mine. In the "Biblioteca [sic] Nacional" I found the archives of the Catholic Church from the very earliest days all in fairly good order and certainly very interesting as human documents.

In a dusty and yellowed volume, bound in pigskin, hardened by age to the stiffness of iron, I found quiantly [sic] scribed the records of the numerous "missions" which the tireless and zealous Catholic "Padres" had founded and sustained in the then far borderland of Spanish domain, now a part of the state of Arizona. These told of the founding of the missions, of Indian massacres and of matters of trivial but timely import, of the conversion of the Indians and of the discovery and operation of the rich silver mines. The church's liberal toll of the products of these mines was enumerated orderly and occasionally some notes of comment on the mines and their great richness were included. There was a description of the mine known as "Plancha de Plata" (Plank of Silver) and the "Salero" (Salt Cellar). The "plank of silver" found in the mine so designated was described as being as big as the "top of the table", which is not very definite to one of engineering habits or measurements. However, it was considered that the "find" was so important that it was sent intact to the king of Spain, either through gratitude or in hope of due regal reward. This contribution to the king was of course in addition to the liberal tithe exacted for the royal exchequer.

It is not told in these church records, but in later secular writings, that the king was so interested in the donation that he ordered the mine confiscated to the crown. Finally reference to the mine of Tubac was found. It was described as "muy requisma" (very rich) and the record set forth its location with reference to the mission as was customary at the time in terms of the sun and the almanac. Further, the scribe told of some sturdy and fruitful pear trees, transplanted from far off Spain, which were growing near the mission. No further data or description was to be found.

Some years later, finding myself in the region referred to in this old record, and having some time to spare, I decided to visit my friend and to inquire of him concerning the mine of Tubac. It seems that he had not followed up the ancient clue, partly because, as is the wont with miners and desert habitats, he did not have the time, but chiefly because the locality indicated by the directions was one not considered promising for mines or mineral deposits of any kind. However, he was still interested in the matter and he was very willing to venture with me in the quest, and he promptly offered to provide horses and ample and suitable equipment for a several days' desert trip.

Tubac, today, is a cluster of a half score or so of "adobe" huts, looking like demounted freight cars straggled on the gray edges of patches and squares of alfalfa and other products, vivid green in contrast with the general color schemes of the desert region, and resulting from the rare perennial springs at this "place of the water". There was also the mission, very old and similar in architectural design to the other and better known missions of the southwest, many of which can trace a direct historical record back a couple of hundred years or more to the days when the padres and the intrepid Spanish miners first came into the country on their respective quests.

View attachment 2101853
Tubac - The Presidio - 1908

I soon felt very sure that this was the mission referred to in the old records and that from its portico the mine of Tubac had been visible as described. Taking the course from the portico by compass and nautical almanac, we laid out our plans for the search. A long rocky slope stretched ahead, a day's travel or more to the crest, and beyond that another blue and mysterious ridge flanking the main range which lay to the west out of our line of vision. No mine was known in this allotted and prescribed segment and our general interpretations of the geological formations and conditions were not very encouraging.

It was planned to start at dawn and to camp on the near crest the first night. This would permit of some general investigations of the country through which we were to ride and of the customary and comfortable "siesta" during the hot hours of the day. It was decided to take with us the local "jefe", a "squawman" of Scandinavian descent, and a Mexican by the name of Pedro, "muy viejo y muy sabioso" (very old and very knowing), according to local report.

Two days were spent in hard, hot traversing of the first slope without result and at the end we were camped on the crest, still in sight of our beacon, the mission. Pedro, who had become stolidly interested in our purposes, told us that there was no mine in the area we were investigating, but he did not venture any elucidation of the record nor discussion of the local traditions of the "lost" mine with which we found he was familiar.

We decided to advance to the farther ridge and to explore there, keeping within the limits of the angle of vision and the area of visibility from our basing point the north portico of the Tubac mission. We traversed all the ragged and cactus-punctuated slope and examined every exposed rock and projecting cliff, for this was our last hope to find the lost mine of Tubac, and we still had full faith in the veracity and accuracy of the nameless recorder on whose information we were acting. It did not seem within reason to doubt the competency of the record, nor did it seem likely that our experienced search had overlooked any possible trace of an ancient mine working, especially one singled out of many for the favorable comment of a contemporary.

We had about decided to give up the search and to return to the village, when the silent Pedro, a good listener, though he understood our English conversation imperfectly, asked permission to speak with the "Senor Capitan", meaning me. He said that he and his ancestors had known by oral tradition of the famous mine of Tubac and that they, too, had searched for it in vain, as we had. He had believed that it was close to the mission, but he did not have the more explicit location and direction than my search of the archives had contributed to the subject and the association of the "pear trees" with the mission and the mine was a new idea. He then told me of some very old stumps of trees in a valley several miles to the westward which he believed to be the remains of "trees of fruit" and that there were indications that the place had once been the site of a pueblo, probably very long ago, when there was more water than now in the locality.

With new hope we journeyed westward far out of vision of the mission and late at night camped near the place which Pedro had described. It was as he had said. There were stumps of trees, not indigenous to the region, which we determined to be of the pear tree variety from an examination of the wood and the bark. That there had been a settlement there was evident from the scattered but almost obliterated rows of loose stones and from the small mounds of earth, perhaps the last crumbled evidence of adobe houses. There probably had been a mission, too, but this could not be determined.

What was more important was the fact that a few miles away was a mine visible from the site of the vanished village and quite exactly in the direction as described in the church archives. The mine is today known as "Cerro Colorado" and has been worked by the Americans since the late fifties. There is no modern history to tell whether this mine had been worked before by the Spaniards, but presumably so, for the "red hill", the English equivalent of the present day name of the mine, must have been known to the early mining adventurers who were skilled in prospecting for mineral deposits and who went into the most remote places of this then remote region in their quest for the rich and easily treated silver ores which were often found in such outcrops.

View attachment 2101854
"El Arastra" - J. Ross Browne (1869) - Not at Tubac

This is all of the story. I do not know whether we found the lost mine of Tubac or not. Pedro thinks we did. At any rate, the thrill and fascination of the local tradition has gone for all of our party. Perhaps other adventurers may take up the search anew and prove the error of our deductions, which are that the Tubac of the old records was located at the place of the pear trees and later, either because of the cessation of mining or because of climatic changes which affected the necessary water supply, the village and the mission were transferred to a new site now recorded on the maps by a small black dot. For myself, I am strongly inclined to agree with Pedro.

~ The Arizona Mining Journal (Vol. 7, No. 18)

------- o0o -------
Good luck to all,
The Old Bookaroo
Thankyou for that story. A good read.
 

markmar

Silver Member
Oct 17, 2012
4,122
6,269
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
If the description of the mine was written by Jesuit priests, then exist a very big possibility the letter to be encrypted. IMO, we have to rely only in the direction and not in something else who could lure us far away.
It's good to know the gold (or a part of it ) of Tumacacori treasure came from that mine.
 

Randy Bradford

Hero Member
Jun 27, 2004
526
923
for FEBRUARY 15, 1924.



"In the Direction of the Sun"

By KIRBY THOMAS, Mining Engineer.

The story of the lost mine of Tubac



"En la direccion del Sol a las quatro de la tarde en el dia viente uno de Junio." ["In the direction of the Sun at four o'clock in the afternoon on the twenty-first day of June."] These are the explicit directions transcribed into my notes from the ancient church records. After nearly a week's search for the "mine of Tubac", we are again in the straggling Indian village of the same name as the old mine, a Spanish "antigua", the location of which has been entirely lost through the mutations of time during the two or more centuries since its operation.

At Tubac is a "mission", a block-like affair of mud walls, once white, with a characteristic arch of unequal arms for a bell and a crumbled portico facing to the north. On this portico we had stood a few days since and looked "in the direction of the sun at four o'clock on the 21st day of June", as the old record had prescribed, to lay our course for a trip to locate the "lost mine of Tubac".

View attachment 2101852
Tubac - J. Ross Browne - 1869

The story of our adventure is not an exciting one, but now, after our high expectations have ended in doubt, to say the least, it seems worthy of being recorded. While I was in Mexico City several years ago I received a letter from an old time mining friend in Arizona, in which he asked me to make a search of the archives in the Mexican libraries for the purpose of finding some information which might enable him to locate a famous "lost" mine of which traditions were still extant in his locality. The mine was called Tubac after a pueblo, or village, of that name in which there was a church mission not un¬ like half a hundred others in the south¬ west. The name Tubac was reported to mean, in the Indian language, "the place of water". This information was my clue, and I was expected to find from the scanty records of the days of the early Spanish occupancy data which would lead to the rediscovery of this early day "bonanza" mine. In the "Biblioteca [sic] Nacional" I found the archives of the Catholic Church from the very earliest days all in fairly good order and certainly very interesting as human documents.

In a dusty and yellowed volume, bound in pigskin, hardened by age to the stiffness of iron, I found quiantly [sic] scribed the records of the numerous "missions" which the tireless and zealous Catholic "Padres" had founded and sustained in the then far borderland of Spanish domain, now a part of the state of Arizona. These told of the founding of the missions, of Indian massacres and of matters of trivial but timely import, of the conversion of the Indians and of the discovery and operation of the rich silver mines. The church's liberal toll of the products of these mines was enumerated orderly and occasionally some notes of comment on the mines and their great richness were included. There was a description of the mine known as "Plancha de Plata" (Plank of Silver) and the "Salero" (Salt Cellar). The "plank of silver" found in the mine so designated was described as being as big as the "top of the table", which is not very definite to one of engineering habits or measurements. However, it was considered that the "find" was so important that it was sent intact to the king of Spain, either through gratitude or in hope of due regal reward. This contribution to the king was of course in addition to the liberal tithe exacted for the royal exchequer.

It is not told in these church records, but in later secular writings, that the king was so interested in the donation that he ordered the mine confiscated to the crown. Finally reference to the mine of Tubac was found. It was described as "muy requisma" (very rich) and the record set forth its location with reference to the mission as was customary at the time in terms of the sun and the almanac. Further, the scribe told of some sturdy and fruitful pear trees, transplanted from far off Spain, which were growing near the mission. No further data or description was to be found.

Some years later, finding myself in the region referred to in this old record, and having some time to spare, I decided to visit my friend and to inquire of him concerning the mine of Tubac. It seems that he had not followed up the ancient clue, partly because, as is the wont with miners and desert habitats, he did not have the time, but chiefly because the locality indicated by the directions was one not considered promising for mines or mineral deposits of any kind. However, he was still interested in the matter and he was very willing to venture with me in the quest, and he promptly offered to provide horses and ample and suitable equipment for a several days' desert trip.

Tubac, today, is a cluster of a half score or so of "adobe" huts, looking like demounted freight cars straggled on the gray edges of patches and squares of alfalfa and other products, vivid green in contrast with the general color schemes of the desert region, and resulting from the rare perennial springs at this "place of the water". There was also the mission, very old and similar in architectural design to the other and better known missions of the southwest, many of which can trace a direct historical record back a couple of hundred years or more to the days when the padres and the intrepid Spanish miners first came into the country on their respective quests.

View attachment 2101853
Tubac - The Presidio - 1908

I soon felt very sure that this was the mission referred to in the old records and that from its portico the mine of Tubac had been visible as described. Taking the course from the portico by compass and nautical almanac, we laid out our plans for the search. A long rocky slope stretched ahead, a day's travel or more to the crest, and beyond that another blue and mysterious ridge flanking the main range which lay to the west out of our line of vision. No mine was known in this allotted and prescribed segment and our general interpretations of the geological formations and conditions were not very encouraging.

It was planned to start at dawn and to camp on the near crest the first night. This would permit of some general investigations of the country through which we were to ride and of the customary and comfortable "siesta" during the hot hours of the day. It was decided to take with us the local "jefe", a "squawman" of Scandinavian descent, and a Mexican by the name of Pedro, "muy viejo y muy sabioso" (very old and very knowing), according to local report.

Two days were spent in hard, hot traversing of the first slope without result and at the end we were camped on the crest, still in sight of our beacon, the mission. Pedro, who had become stolidly interested in our purposes, told us that there was no mine in the area we were investigating, but he did not venture any elucidation of the record nor discussion of the local traditions of the "lost" mine with which we found he was familiar.

View attachment 2102975

An Account of Expeditions to the Sources of the Mississippi, and Through the Western Parts of Louisiana, to the Sources of the Arkansaw, Kans, La Platte, and Pierre Jaun, Rivers; ... During the Years 1805, 1806, and 1807. And a Tour Through the Interior Parts of New Spain, When Conducted Through These Provinces, by order of The Captain-General, in the year 1807. By Major Z.M. Pike. [1810]

We decided to advance to the farther ridge and to explore there, keeping within the limits of the angle of vision and the area of visibility from our basing point the north portico of the Tubac mission. We traversed all the ragged and cactus-punctuated slope and examined every exposed rock and projecting cliff, for this was our last hope to find the lost mine of Tubac, and we still had full faith in the veracity and accuracy of the nameless recorder on whose information we were acting. It did not seem within reason to doubt the competency of the record, nor did it seem likely that our experienced search had overlooked any possible trace of an ancient mine working, especially one singled out of many for the favorable comment of a contemporary.

We had about decided to give up the search and to return to the village, when the silent Pedro, a good listener, though he understood our English conversation imperfectly, asked permission to speak with the "Senor Capitan", meaning me. He said that he and his ancestors had known by oral tradition of the famous mine of Tubac and that they, too, had searched for it in vain, as we had. He had believed that it was close to the mission, but he did not have the more explicit location and direction than my search of the archives had contributed to the subject and the association of the "pear trees" with the mission and the mine was a new idea. He then told me of some very old stumps of trees in a valley several miles to the westward which he believed to be the remains of "trees of fruit" and that there were indications that the place had once been the site of a pueblo, probably very long ago, when there was more water than now in the locality.

With new hope we journeyed westward far out of vision of the mission and late at night camped near the place which Pedro had described. It was as he had said. There were stumps of trees, not indigenous to the region, which we determined to be of the pear tree variety from an examination of the wood and the bark. That there had been a settlement there was evident from the scattered but almost obliterated rows of loose stones and from the small mounds of earth, perhaps the last crumbled evidence of adobe houses. There probably had been a mission, too, but this could not be determined.

What was more important was the fact that a few miles away was a mine visible from the site of the vanished village and quite exactly in the direction as described in the church archives. The mine is today known as "Cerro Colorado" and has been worked by the Americans since the late fifties. There is no modern history to tell whether this mine had been worked before by the Spaniards, but presumably so, for the "red hill", the English equivalent of the present day name of the mine, must have been known to the early mining adventurers who were skilled in prospecting for mineral deposits and who went into the most remote places of this then remote region in their quest for the rich and easily treated silver ores which were often found in such outcrops.

View attachment 2101854
"El Arastra" - J. Ross Browne (1869) - Not at Tubac

This is all of the story. I do not know whether we found the lost mine of Tubac or not. Pedro thinks we did. At any rate, the thrill and fascination of the local tradition has gone for all of our party. Perhaps other adventurers may take up the search anew and prove the error of our deductions, which are that the Tubac of the old records was located at the place of the pear trees and later, either because of the cessation of mining or because of climatic changes which affected the necessary water supply, the village and the mission were transferred to a new site now recorded on the maps by a small black dot. For myself, I am strongly inclined to agree with Pedro.

~ The Arizona Mining Journal (Vol. 7, No. 18)

------- o0o -------
Good luck to all,
The Old Bookaroo
Great find sir...nice to see you back!
 

Crow

Silver Member
Jan 28, 2005
3,338
9,336
In a tax haven some where
Detector(s) used
ONES THAT GO BEEP! :-)
Primary Interest:
Other
I suspect Pedro. was correct? most of story over time was taken out of context at least after 1900. I have different 1891 version that the mine was never really lost? If became uneconomical in when the higher grades of ore was depleted. Red hill Cerro Colorado was worked through the 1850s and 1nd late 1860's.

The 1891 story tells of The cache of silver recovered from under the altar of ruined mission of Tubac.

I suspect it was high graded ore stolen from the Clark mine. the source of treasure story was judge Barnes. He was negotiation on behalf of two MEXICAN brothers that ranch landholders in Arivaca in which the United states government wanted to take their land so the border could be straight line..

The treasure hunter partners of judge Barnes was a Mr Compton Mr. Cuissenbury who lived in Arivaca,

The deal was the Judge and his partners got the mines, the Alleged priest took the silver hidden in the old abandoned mission. And gave judge Barnes the alleged map. They tried and failed with the map because the measurements given lead nowhere.

The silver gold and silver was hidden in the present mission which is not Jesuit but an abandoned Franciscan mission. The treasure of Tumacomori had nothing to do with Jesuits or Franciscans. The silver and gold was high graded from the john Clark and surrounding mines.

The story got muddled in retelling.. And with belief in Jesuit treasure the Jesuit treasure legend took hold. Even when they was long gone from the region which this high grading happened in the 1860s. So because the treasure was hidden under altar of the the ruined church mission. it was assumed to be an earlier treasure and that the treasure was connected to the Jesuits.

The picture below of Cerro Colorado red hill in the background several mines was around the hill area. the town does not exist today. as explained in Bookroos article,

581d26b49db66.image.jpg


Check out the link below

ttps://www.treasurenet.com/threads/the-john-clark-silver-mine.658013/

You can bet you ass if the village existed with a little chapel of the Mexican miners working in the mine the alleged map makes more sense?
Cuissenbury treasure hunter

Mr Cuissenbury spent the rest of his live believing the directions on the alleged map was from the chapel door at Tumacomori mission?

He came to that assumption because of silver and gold recovered from the under the altar by this alleged priest. Mr. Cuissenbury years later in life was flogging off maps in Nogales as he was living poverty.

Morning Press Newspaper, Volume XXIX, number 197,27 September 1891.

Morning Press, Volume XXIX, Number 197, 27 September 1891 p1.jpg


Morning Press, Volume XXIX, Number 197, 27 September 1891 p2.jpg



Crow
 

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Crow

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Its interesting is it not by 1864 the area was all just about deserted.

Yet there was few whites working the mines. See below end of the article.

Daily Alta California, Volume 16, Number 5214, 12 June 1864


Daily Alta California, Volume 16, Number 5214, 12 June 1864.jpg



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Crow

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Its interesting not by 1864 the area was all just about deserted.

Yet there was few whites working the mines. See below end of the article.

Daily Alta California, Volume 16, Number 5214, 12 June 1864


View attachment 2116734


Crow
What you might find interesting. The following newspaper reported below. 3 Germans and a Frenchman living in the abandoned Mission.

They had moved in three years after the mission had been abandoned in 1848.

Sacramento Daily Union, Volume 10, Number 1417, 10 October 1855


Crow

Sacramento Daily Union, Volume 10, Number 1417, 10 October 1855.jpg
 

Crow

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Here in detailed description on the mining processes at the mine.

Daily Alta California, Volume 11, Number 253, 12 September 1859 p1.jpg


Daily Alta California, Volume 11, Number 253, 12 September 1859 p2.jpg


Daily Alta California, Volume 11, Number 253, 12 September 1859 p3.jpg


Daily Alta California, Volume 11, Number 253, 12 September 1859 p4.jpg


Daily Alta California, Volume 11, Number 253, 12 September 1859 p5.jpg


It was this mining operation that suffered from high grading and indifferent work practices by Mexicans working there.

Samuel Colt assumed presidency of the Cerro Colorado Mine in 1859. Production at the Heintzelman Mine was recorded as $100,000 that year.


However, this did not include the stolen ore shipped to Mexico, which some estimate at $900,000.

Known later for his Hartford arms manufacturer of the Colt revolver, he claimed “the mine was but a hole to bury money in.”

Here is more information on the mine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerro_Colorado,_Arizona




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sdcfia

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Good work Crow. People love the "fabulous lost mine" stories, no matter what the truth is, which is now difficult to establish, and for the most part, irrelevant anyway. Totally understandable, and we're all vulnerable. I still get a twinge when I run across an old backfilled adit.

Nearly all "lost mines" were either abandoned when the surface pay streak quit, or were relocated later by people with the money to develop them.
 

Crow

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Interesting to note

The outlaws immediately headed into Arizona for the mine. Once there they won the support of the Mexican employees and destroyed the mine in hopes of finding the silver. After failing to find it they tortured and murdered John Poston and two German miners
.

Was they the same Germans living at Tumacomori mission?

Where treasure was recovered 20 0dd years later as per judge Barnes story.

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Crow

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Good work Crow. People love the "fabulous lost mine" stories, no matter what the truth is, which is now difficult to establish, and for the most part, irrelevant anyway. Totally understandable, and we're all vulnerable. I still get a twinge when I run across an old backfilled adit.

Nearly all "lost mines" were either abandoned when the surface pay streak quit, or were relocated later by people with the money to develop them.

Yes some times the legends become stronger than the real story.

For me i think there is still few surprises out there in the Arivaca region. there is some interesting geological formations in Chimney Canyon that might be a weathering epidermal vent.

But far as I understand it is on private ranch land?

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sdcfia

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Yes some times the legends become stronger than the real story.


Crow
As Edward Bernays so firmly established, people can easily be manipulated to believe anything.
 

Crow

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As Edward Bernays so firmly established, people can easily be manipulated to believe anything.

There is an interest clip on you tube come where . Showing come good people memory are of events. They did an experiment of juggler juggling and group of people around him watching. A man came out of nowhere and stole the women's handbag. in instant. They then asked people to give description of the offender. Many described the juggler as the offender.

People process thing differently peoples memories record things and other people do not. It comes down to their hippocampus to desire what to remember and what not to remember. But just shows even an eyewitness can be unreliable.

There is whole science of manipulation at play everyday on TV . adverts say this product you cannot do with out. Or too fat or you sick you need this or that. Newspapers was no different. It more sexy to have a lost mine and just worn out abandoned one.

As you know there is hell of amount of empty holes and broken dreams when it comes to mining.

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Crow

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Side thing of what interests me with Arivica area is the geological faulting and Epithermal vents. That create such rich rare veins found in the region of native silver in the past. Most long ago was worked out by the Spanish no doubt. I could not determine any residual previous mine tailings at the site. I could not find any active mine lease recorded previous or present.

However there are vehicle tracks near by associated with cattle ranch the site is on. It should be noted it is a known trail for Drug smugglers and people smugglers. And 2018 a border patrol offer was shot nearby in a gun battle.

I spied an interesting out crop below.

chim canyon arizonia.jpg


To the left of that illusion of a church door. There is darkened ledge and on the blown up photo you can see my crude red outline of what appears the be exposed geological faulting. The darkened coloration might suggest exposed weathered eroding minerals . below.

chim canyon arizonia. detail 2.jpg



And another fact to consider that its virtually in line with the mining activities of Ruby and the king Midas mine . And further southeast into Mexico. Along all the fault lines or near them on the map key mineral deposits are nearby.

M3_Quakes_02042020.jpg fault zone.jpg

chim canyon.JPG


These fractures and vents form mineral deposits like gold copper or silver.

Epithermal Gold refers to a type of gold deposit formed from hydrothermal fluids at shallow levels in the earth’s crust.
“Epithermal” is an old term used to classify hydrothermal deposits based on temperature and depth of deposition.

Epithermal is used in field exploration studies to describe Au - Ag - Cu deposits formed in magmatic arc environments. By surface sampling and drilling truth holes to establish the size of any potential ore body.

Epithermal Systems refer to the network of veins and hydrothermal fluids that permeate the crust of the earth between the magma chamber and the surface of the earth, and the metal deposits: this is a type of plumbing system that also includes fractures, faults and other cracks or voids in the crust.

They generally give high concentration of minerals in veins . For modern mining companies they are more interested mineral impregnated rock in large volumes that can be mined with cost effective extractions processes.

Epithermal Alteration: magma chambers remain in the crust for long periods of time (millions of years) and so do the hydrothermal fluids given off by these magmas. The fluids are hot and salty and can be extremely corrosive thereby causing changes in the chemistry of the rocks that they pass through - this change is called alteration. The result is that a whole new suite of alteration minerals are formed.

In short area impregnated with large amounts of mixed ore such as copper, Lead, silver, gold tungsten. just to name a few. Thus the above out crop may warrant further study by sampling.





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markmar

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I followed the clues from the Presidio of Tubac ( ruins ) and lead me to a spot which has all the perspective to be the real deal. The place it's in Tubac Creek, almost at its head and about four miles away from the old Presidio.
Looking in GE, the place looks like has some old traces of facilities and camps.
I post two Ge images , one of the spot with the mine/s to be in the center ( IMO ), and another one of the spot's location ( the red oval ) in regards to the Tubac village. Someone who is interested could go there to give a look.
 

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mdog

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"In the direction of the Sun at four o'clock in the afternoon on the twenty-first day of June."
This could be a clue to a cache, not at the mine. It would be interesting to know what other clues the author found in his research. I wonder why he went to the north portico.
June 21st is the summer solstice and at 4 in the afternoon, it looks like the Sun would be to the west.
However, I have seen a hole cut in a rock formation sighting to the northeast. Toe and finger holds were cut on the west side of the formation so you could climb up to the hole and watch the Sun rise over a low bluff on the summer solstice. The end you looked through was to the southwest so I guess it could be considered the 4 o clock position. An imaginary line going from the Sun through the hole and continuing on to the southwest, would run directly to a heart shaped boulder about 450 feet away.
It could be that there was such a hole or gun sight on the north portico of the mission that would direct you to a cache.
Here's a fun site if your interested in Solar events.
 

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