Peglegs Black Gold Nuggets

gollum

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Erwin Ruth himself hired an investigative team to search out all known materials about the PEG LEG Mine look above and you will see it clearly states the PEG LEG and no other mine is mentioned. The Ruths were no where near where they claimed to be, they were miles west of NorthEastern end of Borrego Mountain.

http://www.lost-dutchman.com/dutchman/robtwo/ruth.pdf


Hate to burst your bubble, but they weren't. They started at Warner Hot Springs, came down Grapevine/Sentenac canyon, through The Narrows, out onto the Borrego Flats. They followed the course of San Felipe Creek to Borrego Mountain Area. They camped to the West of BM. Adolph Ruth took off towards BM because that is where his map indicated the mine was. In trying to get to the mountain, as it was beginning to get dark, he fell into a very steep arroyo, where he laid for almost four days until he was rescued.

.....and again, they were not looking for the Peg Leg!

This is from YOUR source:

Another interesting point about this letter is that it appears that it was Glenn Magill who injected the “mythical” connection of the mine that Adolph and Erwin were looking for to the “Lost Peg
Leg” by his remarks:



“Supplementing my report to you on the Peg Leg. ...” (Pg. 1, Par. 1, ln 1)

and


“Although these hills are requisite and perfectly match his [Peg Leg Smith] description,
(they also fit the description you supplied me on the hills you and your father saw)...”(Pg.
1,Par: 6 ln 1-2)

and

“I am almost convinced that this range is the one you described to me, and it fits
perfectly with other information I have on the Peg Leg”(Pg. 1,Par: 7 ln 1-2)

There are several books which perpetuate this connection including (1) Borrego 13 (the story of
Gene Reynolds search for the Lost Peg Leg AND the Adolph Ruth’s mine) by Gene Reynolds
who seems to have gotten his information from Glenn Magill and (2) Superstition Mountain, A
Ride Through Time (page 48) by James Swanson and Tom Kollenborn who references Borrego
13 as their source.

If you are going to do some research, then please finish the job. Glenn Magill drew a map based on Erwin Ruth's description, and Ruth verified that the map was accurate:


RuthMagillMap.jpg

As you can see, the path Adolph and Erwin took is EXACTLY as I stated previously. I have been through the area (literally) hundreds of times. There is not a 100' square patch of that entire area I have not put a foot on. The arrow points directly at the Northwestern end of Borrego Mountain. This is the location of the mine I previously posted the pictures of, and again, it is not the Lost Gonzales Mine.

Mike
 
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sailaway

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This is what the author said about the map
Ruths Marker.PNG
As can be seen by the map, Borrego Spring and today’s Anza-Borrego Desert valley is much further east (by miles!) of the marked location on the map (Borrego Spring is just showing at the right edge of the above map). It is possible that there is an error in the report of the location of the accident or perhaps once on location Adolph made some decisions about the location of the mine not noted on the above map. After all, it appears that they had been in the area for at least 5 days before the accident occurred.
or was it because they were using the Molina map overlay to guide them? the X being the center dividing line? I am wanting to know only if the Molina map has anything to do with Adolph Ruth.
 
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gollum

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This is what the author said about the map

or was it because they were using the Molina map overlay to guide them? the X being the center dividing line? I am wanting to know only if the Molina map has anything to do with Adolph Ruth.

NOBODY KNOWS IF RUTH EVEN MADE THE MARK! THERE IS NO CONTEXT TO IT EVEN IF HE DID! He might have just marked the place where the trail started. He might have found a restaurant in Julian that had REALLY good apple pie (that's what Julian is known for now). He might have marked Julian because it was the last place to get gas before heading into the desert (which it is). NOBODY KNOWS!

What we DO know is that Glenn Magill drew a map based on Erwin Ruth's description of what he and his father did. Ruth verified that this map was correct. The "Three Buttes" that the arrow points to is Borrego Mountain. The Ruths never found the mine and Gene Reynolds never found the mine.

The Ruths were looking for the Lost Gonzales Mine

Magill made the "mythical" connection between the Gonzales Mine and the PegLeg

Because the Gonzales family never operated their mine full time, there is a 100% likelihood that the mine was sealed every time they finished using it. That means that there is a 99.9% likelihood that the mine is still sealed.

Mike
 

sailaway

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1931 July 15, Wednesday Evening, Phoenix Gazette - Page 7
FATE SMILES AT AGED MAN AND THEN TRAPS HIM
Comes Into Possession Of Maps By Strange Circumstance
According to his son, Dr. Erwin C. Ruth, Mr. Ruth made his first plans in 1913 to seek the gold mines of the days of the Spanish conquest. It was in that year that chance apparently favored Mr. Ruth as his son came into possession of three Spanish maps.
STORY OF MAPS
Two of these ancient maps related to a mine in San Diego county, California, and the other showed the location of a mine said to have been operated by the Peralta family in the Superstition range of Arizona which later was supposed to have been discovered and worked again by Jacob Waltz, a German, from whom the countless tales of the “Lost Dutchman mine” had their origin. The son obtained these maps as a result of a weird and adventurous chain of circumstances. In 1913 Dr. Ruth was employed by a Texas firm engaged in promotion and of development of Mexican farming lands near the border. In this work Dr. Ruth became acquainted with the Gonzales family, a branch of the older Peralta lineage.
The day before his execution Gonzales talked with Dr. Ruth and told him where to find three maps at his hacienda. Senora Gonzales disclosed the hiding place of these maps providing Dr. Ruth conducted the Gonzales family to safety across the border into Texas.
Dr. Ruth found the maps and complied with the last request of Senor Gonzales. Although he believed the elaborately prepared drawings and Spanish instructions were authentic, Dr. Ruth had no desire to use them and sent the documents to his father in Washington. With the receipt of these maps in the spring of 1913 Mr. Ruth began to make his plans to use them. The first opportunity presented itself in 1923. After finally overcoming the discouraging arguments of his wife and son, Mr. Ruth set out with his son for California to find the mine of San Diego county
This first adventure ended in near disaster.
After hiring an automobile in which to drive into the mountains the father and son were forced to turn back from their destination because of a severe storm. They had planned to reach a ranch at the end of a mountain road but the storm caused them to start for a shelter in a village a few miles back. On the return they ran out of gasoline and Dr. Ruth set out to hike to the village while his father planned to explore a nearby canyon. When Dr. Ruth returned in a few hours with gasoline the day was rapidly ending and his father was missing. After a fruitless search he returned to the village and the next morning returned with searchers.
INJURY HALTS QUEST
Mr. Ruth was found, helpless from a fractured leg. While returning in the dark to the road and the car, he had stepped over the steep bank of a dry wash and suffered a broken leg
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.../Newspaper, Phoenix Gazette - Summer 1931.pdf
Why are we referring to the California Mine as the Lost Gonzalas Mine? It was the Peraltas mine, just that Senor Gonzolas was a linage of the Peraltas?
According to Erwin Ruth they never went anywhere except where they ran out of gas going back to town. Did Erwin lie about the Path he and his father took to the Newspaper? or were they miles west of the mountain Gollum says they hiked to? Is the X exactly where Adolph broke his hip, or was that the destination they had in mind? The X covers TEN square miles. No one has addressed my question about Santa yisabela being on both the Ruth topo map and the Molina Map?
Erwin Ruth’s 1931 manuscript "The story of the Mexican’s gold mines"
Ruth Manuscript.PNG
There is confusion concerning the California Mine then so much more so the “uncomprehendable old map” that was among the documents given to Erwin.
When Senora Gonzales was asked about the map, she said:
“That is the map of my husband’s cousins, the Peralta family. ... I believe the map is a copy of the original and was given to Senor Gonzales for safe keeping, or perhaps to
fortify against the loss of the original.”

So on my fathers next visit to Senora Gonzales, the time when she indentified the old brass button found at the location of their gold mine, as that of her grandfather’s, ...
Doesn’t this statement basically say that Erwin and his father either found the California mine or at least the camp associated with it?

http://www.lost-dutchman.com/dutchman/robtwo/erwinRuthExpansion.pdf
I did have a rather lengthy conversation with the expert on the subject of the Ruth's from the Superstition Mountain Historical Society on this.

Adolph Ruth’s Government Employment
Background:
The information came from the National Personnel Records Center (Office of Personnel Management) in St. Louis, Missouri.
Chronology:
1903 Jun 25 Received offer of Employment with the Bureau of Animal Industry for Dr. H. D. Paxson (Swift and Company) Fort Worth, Texas.
1905 Jul 10 An order was sent to Dr. U. G. Houck of Fort Worth, Texas, transferring Adolph to the force of Albert Dean of Kansas City.
1906 Apr 7 A letter to Albert Dean regarding the consideration of the promotion of Adolph Ruth from Assistant Inspector at $1200 to that of Inspector at $1400 per year
providing he continue in field work and he is considered an efficient and industrious inspector.
1906 Apr 11 Adolph sent a letter from Vinita, Indian Territory (Oklahoma) to Washington stating that he wished to continue serving in field work in the quarantine division
in charge of Albert Dean.
1906 Sep 20 A letter was sent to Albert Dean that included an order to transfer Adolph to the force of Dr. L. R. Baker for an assignment in Meat Inspection. He was to report for duty October 1, 1906 in Kansas City, Missouri.
1916 Sep 22 Adolph requested a transfer to the Washington D. C., Baltimore, Maryland area. He stated he had two children living there. He and Clara wanted to be closer to the two children. He stated his daughter was not well.
1917 Feb 1 Adolph’s transfer was approved and he was to report to Dr. Henry Marshall, in Richmond, Virginia on February 16, 1917.
1917 Jun 8 Adolph reported for duty at College Park Maryland on June 4, 1917
1917 Jul 28 Adolph arrived and was assigned to duty as a Meat Inspector in Richmond on July 20.
1919 Feb 5 Adolph was experiencing a diseased condition of his fingers which he thought might be caused by the nature of his work. Dr. W. R. Jones, a government employee examined Adolph and concurred that the problem was a result of his work and the only way of treating the problem was to stop the type of work that was causing the condition.
1919 Apr 17 Dr. Marshall, Adolph’s boss is apparently trying to find a spot for Adolph in some other group but there is nothing available. If something did become available Adolph would be available for transfer.
1919 Dec 4 (Thursday) Adolph telephoned in sick stating he was dizzy and felt rotten.
1919 Dec 5 Adolph’s boss, Henry Marshall called (Friday) and received no answer at Adolph’s residence.
1919 Dec 6 Adolph’s boss, Henry Marshall called (Saturday) and received no answer at Adolph’s residence.
1919 Dec 6 A letter was mailed to Henry Marshall postmarked Washington D. C.
1919 Dec 7 Adolph’s boss, Henry Marshall called (Sunday) and received no answer at Adolph’s residence.
1919 Dec 8 Henry Marshall received the letter from Adolph from Washington D. C. In it, Adolph states that for some time he has been unable to sleep due to Rheumatism in his lower limbs. He includes a doctor’s certificate from A. I. Weinstein in which the doctor states that Mr. Ruth is under my care now and consider it necessary for him to give up his work for 2 weeks.
1919 Dec 11 Henry Marshall and T. J. Kean visited Dr. Weinstein who’s practice was in Richmond. He stated Adolph had first come to him November 30 and again on December 4, complaining of pains in his limbs and he recommended two weeks rest. Marshall thought it strange that Adolph, who was incapacitated, was able to travel to Washington D. C.
1919 Dec 22 An Article in the San Diego Union relates the story of Adolph Ruth breaking his hip in the Anza Borrego region.
Geologist Falls In Mountains, Breaks Hip;
Lies In Agony 4 Days Son Makes Futile Search For Father,
Then Obtains Help Of Ranchers, Who Form Parties and Find Man.

The accident happened Wednesday morning (December 17); he was found Saturday night (December 20).

1924 Nov 6 A letter was sent to Adolph Ruth that his pension had been granted. His official termination date from the Bureau was July 20, 1923. His annual annuity was to be $504 per annum and it was to commence effective July 21, 1924.
Adolph was living with his daughter Stella and their address was 1433 “T” Street,
Washington D. C.


1. Adolph obviously changed his age and place of birth when he applied for the position in the Bureau of Animal Industry. All through his employment record and in the newspaper articles surrounding his disappearance in the Superstitions his age is a full 10 years younger. Instead of being 66 years old when he disappeared, as the newspaper accounts relate, he was only one month short of his 77th birthday. Since one of the items that is called into question is his physically abilities this may have some bearing.

2. When Adolph took his physical to determine whether he qualified for an early retirement we get some sense of his health problems. One new item was the double rupture that he wore a belt to support. I cringe when I think of him riding that burro over the mountain to Willow Spring. I’m not sure how he was physically by 1931 but when he retired he was down to 115 pounds from his earlier 135 pounds and his height was listed as 5 feet 4 inches in stocking feet, down from 5 feet 6 inches which may have been with shoes on.
It also appears that he may have been near sighted and needed glasses for seeing in the distance. He did have 20/40 vision in one eye but the other was much worse.

The chronology also provides us an improved timeline and background of Adolph’s trip to California in 1919 to search for the Lost Pegleg Smith Gold Mine.
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.../ruth/Adolph Ruth's Government Employment.pdf

Did Adolph Ruth Lie? according to government records yes.
 
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gollum

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Why are we referring to the California Mine as the Lost Gonzalas Mine? It was the Peraltas mine, just that Gonzolas was a linage of the Peraltas?
According to Erwin Ruth they never went anywhere except where they ran out of gas going back to town. Did Erwin lie about the Path he and his father took to the Newspaper? or were they miles west of the mountain Gollum says they hiked to? Is the X exactly where Adolph broke his hip, or was that the destination they had in mind? The X covers TEN square miles. No one has addressed my question about Santa yisabela being on both the ruth topo map and the Molina Map?

You really need to do a bit more research before posting things like this. The two families (Peralta and Gonzales) were very close for many years. After the massacre of the Peralta family in the Superstition Mountains, they blamed the Gonzales' for leaving too soon and not helping them fight off the Apache. The Gonzales Family had mines in the Supers too. The Gonzales Family also had a mine in the Anza-Borrego Desert in SoCal. THAT is what the Ruths were looking for in 1919.

Before challenging me on this, you better have all your ducks in a row. This is my neck of the woods, and I have been researching this for many years. While I have been treasure hunting in NM a few times, and treasure hunting in Arizona many times, like I said, there's not a 1000 square foot patch of the Anza-Borrego Desert I haven't put a foot in. I know the stories, and I know the history.

Mike
 

sailaway

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I am only quoting Erwin Ruth himself from his own Manuscript. did you not see what MRS. Gonzalas said to the RUTHS?
She said:
“That is the map of my husband’s cousins, the Peralta family. ... I believe the map is a copy of the original and was given to Senor Gonzales for safe keeping, or perhaps to
fortify against the loss of the original.”
Are you saying that you know the Genealogy of the Peralta's and Gonzalas's better than the Family did?
Are you implying that the Peralta map was stolen by the Gonzalas Family after the Peraltas were killed?
What was Senor Gonzalas's family connection to the Peraltas?
Why would his wife lie about who Mr. Gonzalas was related to?
What historical archives are the documents in that prove the California Mine was owned and operated by the Gonzalas Family?
There is a legal question of if the Gonzalas's even had the right of transfer of such property as there is no record of them having a land grant in the California Mine area.
If the Gonzalas's were mining the area was it a legal mine or were they stealing from the King of Spain?
Mexican nobility
title of nobility in Mexico
Some families received titles of nobility from the congress of the First Empire. After the fall of the First Empire, the imperial family resided in Italy, and later, in the U.S. The Empress is buried in Philadelphia. Afterwards, during the Second Mexican Empire, under Maximilian I of Mexico of the House of Habsburg, the nobility was resurgent. While knightly orders were re-established, no new titles of nobility were granted.
Marqués del Valle de Oaxaca 1529; Hernán Cortés and descendants was the first.
Marqués de Santa Fe de Guardiola 1691; López de Peralta, Cervantes
Modern Period
Most men studied at the Jesuit-run British public school, Stonyhurst College. By marriage to French families, a number of Mexicans became ennobled, including the Polignacs and Villeneuves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_nobility
Spanish Conquest 1492-1580
By the end of 1504 a royal order allowed Spaniards to compel natives to work but for wages, not as slaves.
In 1530 a royal cedula forbade the taking of slaves, even in war. Next the children of slaves were liberated, and eventually only Africans were held as slaves in America.
http://www.san.beck.org/11-2-SpanishConquest.html

Count Fernan Gonzalez, born ca. 912 in of Castile; died June 970. He was the son of Count Gonzalo Fernendez De Lara and Munia De Castile. He married Urraca Garces.
Notes for Count Fernan Gonzalez:
Fernan Gonzalez, Count of Castile, 932; Burgos and Lara; Asturian vassal; b. c912; d. June 970; bur St. Peter of Orlanza; m. (1) 962, Sancha Sanchez of Navarre; b. c915; d. Dec 959; dau of Sancho Garces, King of Navarre, King of Navarre (Pamplona), and Toda Aznarez of Larron; he m. (2) 960/962, Urraca Garces, dau of Garcia Sanchez I, King of Pamplona (niece of his first wife).

More About Count Fernan Gonzalez:
Burial: 970, St. Peter of Orlanza

King Ramiro II: king of Leon and Asturias in Christian Spain from 931 to 951. The second son of King Ordoño II, he became king on the abdication of his elder brother, Alfonso IV. Ramiro was an exceptional general who scored several major victories (e.g., the Battle of Simancas, 939) over the caliphate of Córdoba in Muslim Spain. In 944 he negotiated a five-year truce with the caliph 'Abdar-Rahman III. He failed, however, to suppress the Castilian separatist movement led by Fernán González, the first count of unified Castile, a region that eventually came to dominate Spain militarily, politically, and linguistically.
http://www.genealogy.com/users/k/a/h/John-B-Kaherl/BOOK-0001/0004-0374.html

In 1282 the rebellion of Sancho el Bravo against his father Alfonso was the commencement of decadence. To purchase the allegiance of the nobles he granted them all that they asked, and to avert the discontent consequent on taxation he supplied his treasury by alienating the crown lands. Notwithstanding the abilities of the regent, María de Molina, the successive minorities of her son and grandson, Fernando IV and Alfonso XI, stimulated the downward progress, although thevigor of the latter in his maturity restored in some degree the lustre of the crown and his stern justice re-established order, so that, as we are told, property could be left unguarded in the streets at night. His son, Don Pedro, earned the epithet of the Cruel by his ruthless endeavor to reduce to obedience his turbulent nobles, whose disaffection invited the usurpation of his ******* brother, Henry of Trastamara.
The secular power asserted its right to intervene in matters within the Church itself. Elsewhere the ineradicable vice of priestly concubinage was left to be dealt with by bishops and archdeacons. The guilty priests themselves, even in Castile, were exempt from civil authority, but Ferdinand and Isabella had no hesitation in invading their domiciles and, by repeated edicts in 1480, 1491, 1502, and 1503, endeavored to cure the evil by fining, scourging, and banishing their partners in sin. It is true, as we have seen above, that these laws were eluded, but there was at least a vigorous attempt to enforce them for, in 1490, the clergy of Guipuzcoa complained that the officers of justice visited their houses to see whether they kept concubines (which of course they denied) and carried off their women to prison, where they were forced to confess themselves concubines, to the great dishonor of the Church, whereupon the sovereigns repressed the excessive zeal of their officials and ordered them in future to interfere only when the concubinage was notorious.
http://libro.uca.edu/lea1/1lea1.pdf

The Descendents of Lord Pedro Gonzalez de Mendoza And Lady Aldonza Lopez de Ayala
A compete list in link to 1721
http://www.somosprimos.com/inclan/pedrogonzal.htm
Mike I have no idea why you think this is a personal challenge by me, I only want the whole truth of the Molina Map, and What actually happened as there is documented discrepancies of the Ruth adventures.
 
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gollum

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Not that its a personal challenge, but you keep arguing against everything I tell you. Granted, you don't know me personally, but you may want to search my old posts. Not much I can't tell you about SoCal Desert Stories, The Stone Maps, or Jesuits' Treasure.

You also need to read a little closer:

"That is the map of my husband's cousins, the Peralta Family. THEY TOO OWNED AND OPERATED A GOLD MINE, PERHAPS THAT WAS RICHER THAN OURS IN CALIFORNIA."

The map they are referring to is the map of the Lost Dutchman Mine in Arizona. The multiple maps that Senora Gonzales gave to Erwin Ruth are of THEIR (read: The Gonzales Family's) gold mine in California.

Like I said, before challenging what I tell you, make sure your ducks are all in a row.

ONE MORE TIME: Erwin Ruth described in detail where he and his father went in 1919 to Glenn Magill. From that information and modern maps, Magill drew his own map. Erwin Ruth verified that Magills map was accurate to what he had described to him. I have posted that map above.

I don't know if you are Doug Stewart (from your referenced website), or whomever, but I will tell you from great experience that in the case of lost mine stories, people latch onto the tiniest of things, and make up a whole new story based on a good imagination. Erwin Ruth was not a treasure hunter. He wanted nothing to do with treasure hunting. The only reason he went to the Anza-Borrego Desert in 1919 was to keep an eye on his father:

ruthcard2.jpg ruthcard1.jpg

You keep referencing The Molina Map, but you don't seem to know anything about it. The Molina Map only references a small area just West of the Tumacacori Mission in Arizona. The copy of the Molina Map that came from Mitchell in about 1933 is a flawed copy. Somewhere in another thread I referenced an article that explained everything which I won't go into here. I have been in the area many times. I have a good friend that has lived there chasing the Tumacacori Treasure for many years.

Mike
 

sailaway

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May I ask where this is quoted from?
"That is the map of my husband's cousins, the Peralta Family. THEY TOO OWNED AND OPERATED A GOLD MINE, PERHAPS THAT WAS RICHER THAN OURS IN CALIFORNIA."
I posted where mine came from but what you are quoting is different.
Chasing and Finding are two different things.
and no that is not my web site.
Why do you insist on belittling my knowledge? is that not against T-Net rules?
Have you ever seen my copy of the Molina Map? I do not think so.
I have never published it and yet none of the ones I find here are like what I have. similar, yes, I have yet to see any that show tree lines.
My purpose is to sort out the truth the best that can be done.
I value your knowledge and was why I wanted your opinion. I can think of no one else here that would know as much as you do about the subject matter,
yet I have had very few of my questions answered.
I Googled your exact phrase and it comes up with a Bit Torrent Complaint of copyrighted material being removed from the internet?
 
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gollum

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May I ask where this is quoted from?

I posted where mine came from but what you are quoting is different.
Chasing and Finding are two different things.
and no that is not my web site.
Why do you insist on belittling my knowledge? is that not against T-Net rules?
Have you ever seen my copy of the Molina Map? I do not think so.
I have never published it and yet none of the ones I find here are like what I have. similar, yes, I have yet to see any that show tree lines.
My purpose is to sort out the truth the best that can be done.
I value your knowledge and was why I wanted your opinion. I can think of no one else here that would know as much as you do about the subject matter,
yet I have had very few of my questions answered.
I Googled your exact phrase and it comes up with a Bit Torrent Complaint of copyrighted material being removed from the internet?

Same website, different page. You used as a source "Erwin Ruth's Manuscript". It is an excerpt from that manuscript. Go to page 9 of this web page:

http://www.lost-dutchman.com/dutchman/robtwo/erwinRuthExpansion.pdf

Third paragraph of page nine. Notice it is an expansion of his original story.

Sorry, when I looked for your quote online, I came to the same website, and the story was almost identical. I had to look a couple of times just to make sure they were different.

Mike
 

gollum

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This guy Doug Stewart (his website) also poses several questions:

Why did the Ruth's quite the search after Adolph healed?

Easy. Erwin was not a treasure hunter. He had no interest in hunting for lost mines. Adolph never fully healed. He had several pins and screws in his leg (that was how they identified his skeleton in the Supers). Adolf stayed out of the mountains and deserts from 1919 until 1931. In that time, he likely figured that the one Peralta Map he had was the Lost Dutchman Mine, and was worth a lot more than the Gonzales Mine. Adolph Ruth was 66 years old in 1931. He realized he probably didn't have a lot of mountaineering left in his life, so he wanted to go for the biggest treasure he could. The LDM.

Mike
 

sailaway

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We can all understand that with age that our bodies are limited to what we can do. I wish I was still in my twenties so I could run those mountain trails, but now I walk and take it all in. I have said many times here that I am no expert and only wanting the most information I can glean from those of you that have the knowledge to pass on to the rest of us. I hope one day real soon we will know the secrets to all of these questions. I was putting myself back in time to 1919 when Adolph Ruth was looking around in California. Remember there would have been no knowledge of where those maps were to lead and saw that there is location that was known by a name that would be on both maps. TY Mike
 

Desertphile

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The story goes that Thomas L. Smith, better known as Pegleg Smith, (born 1801 died 1866) a real person ....

You left out "slave trader" from your list. Smith and his murderous thugs captured people and sold them as slaves.
 
OP
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You left out "slave trader" from your list. Smith and his murderous thugs captured people and sold them as slaves.

I don't recall reading any accusation of Smith being a slave trader, can you post a reference? Thanks in advance,
Oroblanco
 

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Gentlemen, I am newly registered to this site, however I have read and reread (etc, etc, etc) both the Peg Leg threads and the Lost Ship threads several times. I was actually somewhat intimidated by the amount of research and the information that you have all gathered. I wanted to have something to offer before I registered on the site and entered the conversation, but you gentlemen have done so much research that it is difficult for the novice like me to add any more. What I have done is to create a spread sheet with the most common and/or credible stories of Black Gold nuggets in the Southern California/Arizona area, drawn mostly from the Peg Leg thread. If anyone is interested, please let me know and I will forward it to you. Please feel free to correct it and add any comments. I didn’t want to post it for public consumption until everyone has had a chance to correct it as necessary, since there is a lot of overlapping and conflicting information, and I am sure I am confused or incorrect somewhere. There are a couple of other things I wanted to mention. One is, in the “Lost Mines of the Desert” thread, post 52, PLL says “they (the nuggets) were about the size of a quarter”. The picture on the of the nugget sitting on the magazine article show a nugget next to a 50 cent piece. Although this is probably the largest nugget, and it is hard to tell with the shadows exactly how big it is, it, at least, seems larger than a quarter. Also, although this should be included in the “Lost Ship” thread somewhere, I noted it in the Peg Leg thread, in “The Peg Leg Smith Chronicles” so I am going to include it here as well. In the “Lost Ship” thread, there was a lot of discussion about whether or not the Salton Sink had flooded in historical times. The general consensus seems to have been that it has. In an article from the Los Angeles Herald, 1 October 1892 (Volume 38, Number 173), the last sentence says “Mr. Converse having passed through the locality in a boat during the overflow into Salton sea.” Since there doesn’t seem to be any unusual stress or commentary on this statement, it indicates to me that the overflow was not a very unusual occurrence, and would reinforce the feeling that overflows did occur, and may not have been all that uncommon.. Thanks to Old Bookaroo for that post. One other thing I would like to add, to give myself (and any other newcomers to this thread) some hope. Although the Black Gold seems to have been found several times and at several places, more often than not, it hasn’t been found by anyone who was actually looking for it. So, with that in mind, knowing too much may not be a good thing!
 

timemachine

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Apr 8, 2015
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Hi Shortfinger: I'd be interested in taking a gander at your worksheet :P

"What I have done is to create a spread sheet with the most common and/or credible stories of Black Gold nuggets in the Southern California/Arizona area, drawn mostly from the Peg Leg thread."
 
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Oroblanco

Oroblanco

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Shortfinger, welcome to T-net! Thanks for sharing your research. I would caution however about the tale of the "man who found pegleg's black gold nuggets" as the editors of Desert magazine were accused of having cooked up the whole thing. We can not exactly examine the nuggets to be sure, nor has anyone ever come forward as the author of those controversial letters. So keep the salt handy when referring to that source.

Please do continue, I would like to see your worksheet too, thanks in advance:
Oroblanco
 

Shortfinger

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Apr 7, 2015
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Oro, I’ll be glad to send it to you, as soon as I figure how to do an attachment to a PM. I have included the “Man who found Peg Leg’s Gold”, but with a caveat that it may have been a fraud. Once I get a few reviews of the spread sheet, I’ll be glad to attach it to this thread as well, but I wanted a few others to review it before I do so. Again, I may not be able to attach a spread sheet to a thread…. :coffee2::BangHead::dontknow:

JB
 

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