Permissions

Malestrom · Feb 2, 2015

Whom do I contact for permission to pan streams, rivers, and setup a sluice for gemstones?
I know to detect and dig i go to the property owner but there are areas of rivers that are neither private or state governed (assumption) Should i contact the fish and game commission?
Perhaps a generous soul here has a place within 1 hour of Philadelphia they would share to a person who has yet to break ground for anything but pouring a foundation for a home.
Anything, gemstones, gold, silver, coins (like an old school location) etc....
I dont even have tools yet! :happysmiley:

Thanks everyone!!
Michael

Malestrom · Feb 4, 2015

81 views and not 1 reply?
Forums are for learning are they not?
i'd apreciate any help, if i get none and do a bozo no no then i mke the hobby look bad
and noone can say I didnt ask...........
I am a fisherman and if a public stream cuts through a piece of private property i am by law allowed to wade the stream but not the land
I ask permission anyway, if the person is uncomfortable with people in thier backyard regardless of legality I find another spot to fish.
Courtesy is the cornerstone to gaining access uninhibited and in writing always!!

doverturtle · Feb 4, 2015

Malestrom said:
81 views and not 1 reply?
Forums are for learning are they not?
i'd apreciate any help, if i get none and do a bozo no no then i mke the hobby look bad
and noone can say I didnt ask...........
I am a fisherman and if a public stream cuts through a piece of private property i am by law allowed to wade the stream but not the land
I ask permission anyway, if the person is uncomfortable with people in thier backyard regardless of legality I find another spot to fish.
Courtesy is the cornerstone to gaining access uninhibited and in writing always!!

Not quite. You can use a boat on the stream, but you cannot walk through the stream. The water belongs to the Commonwealth, the land under the water belongs to the landowner, so you would need permission for wading.

Treasure_Hunter · Feb 5, 2015

You also posted in a state forum which are a lot slower then many of our other forums.

Doverturtle is correct water belongs to the state, land owners own the land. You can fish from a boat, but your trespassing if your wading and fishing..

Malestrom · Feb 5, 2015

Interesting, is that state to state or countrywide?
I'll talk to my local F&G Official.
If this is true i cant float and anchor then pan the soil in the middle of the creek without permission.
I always always always ask anyway!!
Thanks for the responses!

Malestrom · Feb 7, 2015

TYVM ALL!! :occasion14:

Tom_in_CA · Feb 7, 2015

Treasure_Hunter said:
..... You can fish from a boat, but your trespassing if your wading and fishing..

Well this is interesting. The O.P. notes he's fished these areas without issue. So to me, I'd say that his current activity question is also equally innocuous.

But let's just go, for a moment, with what you're saying TH'r. That, in fact: he's technically not even able to wade there . Hence not "standing" in the water while fishing. Yet you say he can be in a boat there. Ok, I'll buy that

Then presto: What's to stop him from being in the boat, stopping where it's shallow enough to where he wants to look for those specific rocks. And then reach his arm (or scoop or whatever) over the side of the boat to do it ? Would he be technically legal then ? :icon_scratch:

Treasure_Hunter · Feb 7, 2015

Tom_in_CA said:
Well this is interesting. The O.P. notes he's fished these areas without issue. So to me, I'd say that his current activity question is also equally innocuous.

But let's just go, for a moment, with what you're saying TH'r. That, in fact: he's technically not even able to wade there . Hence not "standing" in the water while fishing. Yet you say he can be in a boat there. Ok, I'll buy that Then presto: What's to stop him from being in the boat, stopping where it's shallow enough to where he wants to look for those specific rocks. And then reach his arm (or scoop or whatever) over the side of the boat to do it ? Would he be technically legal then ?

No.

State owns the water, land owner owns the land under the water. It is legal to boat because boat floats in the water, fish because fish swim in the water. The OP can recover all the rocks and minerals he finds floating or swimming in the water but can not disturb the bottom lands which is owned by the land owner..Anything laying on the bottom belongs to the landowner.

Tom_in_CA · Feb 7, 2015

Wow. Hmmm, so I guess that would dis-allow a boater from anchoring his boat. Since that act would constitute touching the bottom. I guess no rock collecting there! Ouch .

beekbuster · Feb 7, 2015

in california in navigable water everything below the high water line is public. you have to go to the county recorder to find out witch waterways are considered navigable.

mark v · Feb 9, 2015

In Pa. a waterway needs to be considered navigatable to be able to float on it. If not then even floating is illegal without permission.
Near me is a state stocked trout stream. A section of it, just below a popular stocked fishing hole, has a wire strung across the water with posted and no trespassing signs hanging down. The landowner does not allow anyone to float down this section. This stream is considered not navigatable.

Malestrom · Feb 12, 2015

would that be in Media PA on Ridley Creek? I know of that section near the steel grated bridge.

mark v · Feb 12, 2015

Malestrom said:
would that be in Media PA on Ridley Creek? I know of that section near the steel grated bridge.

No. Deer Creek in Allegheny county.

Malestrom · Feb 12, 2015

same piece of water, different creek haha

gusser · Feb 15, 2015

Who owns public waters?
The title to the beds of public waters is held in trust by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania for the benefit of the public. In case of rivers and streams, the Commonwealth’s ownership extends to ordinary low water mark, and the adjacent riparian landowner owns above the high water mark. The Stream bed is STATE owned.

Tom_in_CA · Feb 15, 2015

Gusser, the way I'm understand the *technical* wording, is that ...... sure: the "water" (ie.: to float upon it, for instance), is, as you say, owned by the public. However, the river BOTTOM is not. So you could technically swim or boat down on the water, but ..... heaven help you if your foot touches the bottom.

Now for the life of me, I just don't understand the realistic aspect of all this. I mean: let's say you're someone watching from shore. HOW THE HECK are you supposed to know if someone out there is a) treading water, or b) has one foot touching the bottom ? And c) does that person standing on shore really care one way or the other? :icon_scratch:

Sometimes I think we md'rs make this way more difficult than it really is.

Treasure_Hunter · Feb 15, 2015

You better believe they care, I've been yelled at for being in a boat which is legal....

ginnysdaddy · Feb 16, 2015

mark v said:
No. Deer Creek in Allegheny county.

What section of Deer Creek?? I fish that creek from Rich Hill down to the mouth of the Allegheny.

Tom_in_CA · Feb 16, 2015

Treasure_Hunter said:
You better believe they care, I've been yelled at for being in a boat which is legal....

Then I would most definately agree with not making this person mad. Would most definately not hunt if a person like that is "yelling at me" and "cares" if my toes touched the bottom or not. I fully agree not to ruffle feathers of others.

gusser · Feb 16, 2015

The statement says the BED of the stream not the water...it's from a google search of Penna,. Law on wading water rights. If I knew how to do those linky things, I would. Thus is why it says low water vs High Water.