Possible piece from 1715 fleet shipwreck?

TomW244

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I posted this originally in "Today's Finds", but I got minimal responses and another user suggested I post it here.

I found what I thought at first was a big chunk of rusty metal. It was dowel-shaped, but tapered at the ends. It broke apart as soon as it went in my finds pouch. It turns out that what I thought was rusty metal was actually incredibly brittle wood, which felt like rusty metal to the touch. Running through the center of the piece is an iron square nail, which was well-preserved by the wood that once surrounded it. I found this piece in the same area I previously found a Spanish cob 2 reales coin which, based on the shield (and reverse), dates to 1712 or 1713 and likely is from the 1715 fleet. If this is part of a shipwreck, what would the purpose of this piece be? I'm no expert, but I know there are enough of you on this site who are, so any help would be greatly appreciated!

Ship Nail 1.jpg
Ship Nail 2.jpg
Ship Nail Top.jpg
 

ARC

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Perhaps from a "hook" ... the handle... or similar.

Antique-Vintage-Wrought-Iron-Hay-Bale-Hook-w.jpg
 
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TomW244

TomW244

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Very cool, I certainly hadn't thought of that!
 

ARC

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Very cool, I certainly hadn't thought of that!

Regardless of my opinion of what this once was... tis a cool find that definitely stirs the imagination.

I don't know about your bet...

But I am willing to bet that I am close... and that yes this is definitely remnants of an early piece ... and very well could be 1715.
 

huntsman53

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I don't know a whole lot about 17th and 18th Century ships. However, I believe that the piece of wood with what I believe is a spike through the middle of it, is more related to something on a ship of the period that used wood but required strength so that it would not break. One possibility is a spoke of a 1700's or 1800's ship's steering wheel. I am not sure when the Spanish switched from the Whipstaff to the Wheel for steering their' Galleons.
 

ROBOTCOP13

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Not all the 1715 Fleet ships were "Spanish built" ships. It is believed that Captain Ubilla's Capitana ship the Nuestra Senora de la Regla was the English built "Hampton Court" that the Spanish purchased from the French who captured it as a prize.


The history is interesting and complicated. If the wood you have is identified as English oak it could be from the Spanish fleet.
 

Rookster

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Awesome find.
 

grossmusic

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Not all the 1715 Fleet ships were "Spanish built" ships. It is believed that Captain Ubilla's Capitana ship the Nuestra Senora de la Regla was the English built "Hampton Court" that the Spanish purchased from the French who captured it as a prize.


HMS Hampton Court became Echeverz's capitana (not Ubilla's). It was definitely English built. This is one of the few where the documentation is clear & solid, & as robotcop mentioned, has a very interesting history.

Only Salmon's ship is known to have been an actual Spanish galleon. This was the only bona-fide Spanish ship in the fleet.

Ubilla's flagship may or may not have been Spanish. Unless new info in Cuba has shed light, its origination is unknown.

Same goes for Echeverz's cargo ship captained by his son Manuel, who was lost. No known origination.

Ubilla's Maria Galante has a muddied history that has it possibly as a Cuban sloop, or maybe an English prize Echeverz captured in 1714 then sold to Ubilla in Cuba.

Echeverz's aviso San Miguel was an English frigate, but Haskins states it was Spanish built.

The rest are all not Spanish:

Ubilla's refuerzo was Dutch built.
Ubilla's patache was Portuguese built.
Echeverz's almiranta, captained by his son Pedro, was English built.
Echeverz's 2nd patache was Dutch built.
Echeverz's fragatilla was French built.

Ubilla started out with several ships that may have been Spanish (I don't recall), but he was better at losing them while Echeverz captured more than he needed, so he sold at least one or two to Ubilla who had too much treasure for his few ships.

So the artifact really could be from just about anywhere in Europe, or possibly Cuba since there were so many changes of hands & different originations.

Wherever it's from, it's cool!
 

ROBOTCOP13

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When you find an artifact from the 1715 fleet the hunt is just beginning. Research will lead you down so many different rabbit holes it will make your head spin. If you keep at it and talk to a lot of experts and discuss their opinions with others you will develop a real appreciation for the 1715 history.
 
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TomW244

TomW244

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HMS Hampton Court became Echeverz's capitana (not Ubilla's). It was definitely English built. This is one of the few where the documentation is clear & solid, & as robotcop mentioned, has a very interesting history.

Only Salmon's ship is known to have been an actual Spanish galleon. This was the only bona-fide Spanish ship in the fleet.

Ubilla's flagship may or may not have been Spanish. Unless new info in Cuba has shed light, its origination is unknown.

Same goes for Echeverz's cargo ship captained by his son Manuel, who was lost. No known origination.

Ubilla's Maria Galante has a muddied history that has it possibly as a Cuban sloop, or maybe an English prize Echeverz captured in 1714 then sold to Ubilla in Cuba.

Echeverz's aviso San Miguel was an English frigate, but Haskins states it was Spanish built.

The rest are all not Spanish:

Ubilla's refuerzo was Dutch built.
Ubilla's patache was Portuguese built.
Echeverz's almiranta, captained by his son Pedro, was English built.
Echeverz's 2nd patache was Dutch built.
Echeverz's fragatilla was French built.

Ubilla started out with several ships that may have been Spanish (I don't recall), but he was better at losing them while Echeverz captured more than he needed, so he sold at least one or two to Ubilla who had too much treasure for his few ships.

So the artifact really could be from just about anywhere in Europe, or possibly Cuba since there were so many changes of hands & different originations.

Wherever it's from, it's cool!

Wow! Thanks for the instant history lesson! That is a lot of very cool information!
 

enrada

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I am always impressed when I see research like GROSSMUSIC posted here. It is a lesson that sometimes investors fail to appreciate how valuable it is. My own continual research in numerous countries will help finding what I seek so much easier and hopefully much easier for an investor to follow the viability of a privately funded project. Thank you Grossmusic
 

grossmusic

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My pleasure. It's great when the history is more than just a data sheet. The best treasure hunters appreciate the history & the people who lived it.

If ever I get a fact wrong or misinterpret the meaning, there's usually someone to come along & set it straight here on TreasureNet!
 

ROBOTCOP13

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ivan salis

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there were 3 prize vessels in Echeverz's fleet -- #1 the dutch prize vessel --aka as the "holandesa / olandeas" and also kinown as ...San Miguel --and also...senor de la popa #2 the French prize vessel aka " El Ciervo" / the stag ----and the small Engish prize vessel --that was 25 % owned by the English gov. Hamilton --named Mari--- a galara (sail / row) class type vessel --that was sold to Ubilla in cuba * --
 

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