Regulations - They make me laugh. :)

[Skippy SH13]

Below are the regulations governing MDing in my city. As a result of the way they've been written, I've been very successful with simply telling/showing officers that I'm using a probe less than 8" long and no wider than 1/4" (showing my Lesche Digger tool sideways showing the metal width). I show them I don't DIG, I only CUT a flap and lift it all out (which is totally true, since with the Lesche, I can cut a nice flap 5" deep. LOL). I also note that I always cut a flap, as noted by the regulations. When I'm done, there's no evidence I was really even there!



The ordinance makes me laugh that it say no digging, but then authorizes a cutting process. Yipee! I LOVE ordinances like that.

As a result of me being familiar with the ordinance, the officers are ALWAYS super friendly. They love that I know the ordinance, even if it IS subject to interpretation. It never hurts to laugh about all the trash I pick up, too. They're great fellas (Bike officers), and now always wave when I'm at the various parks. They like to watch and see what comes out, and often come and ask if the kids in the park are behaving (another responsible adult in the park is generally a good thing). They know me also from my HOA experiences in my own neighborhood, and know I have them on speed dial.

Sometimes, KNOWING the ordinances and how they're written can be important, but it's also important to build relationships in the community. I've found as a general rule, enforcement officers are primarily interested in keeping the peace. I make it a point to NOT be a problem to them.

One thing I DON'T like is when other MDers come through and attempt to use the ROLL method of removing a flap by pulling out the roots of the grass with a screwdriver. A nice neat cut flap will have MUCH less damage than pulling out the root structure. It always looks bad a few days later, when the probe guys have come through. I sure do wish they'd get with the program and learn to cut plugs properly... I don't like to take flap (pun intended) for their crappy holes. I can understand when someone comes up to me and complains about it. I complain with them.

Skippy

 

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[Sandman]

To many hunters don't have the IQ to realize the harm they're doing by their cut methods. If the ground is dry, go fishing instead or just pop the shallow targets out and leave the deeper items for another day. Be known for picking up any trash you see and don't be afraid to show trash to park managers. Never be seen with a Lasche or shovel/trowel. Most of the regulations on digging is for the "slugs" that want to steal the shrubbery.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Skippy, yes that is rather odd, eh ? If it were me, I'd just hunt at odd-ball hours, so the distinctions and semantics would never have to come up, or be measured/debated, in the first place.

And I wonder what caused your city, way-back-whenever that verbage got put there, to think to have to have even addressed the subject (which such precision wordings and definitions) in the first place ? I mean, it's great that you're not dis-allowed. But the other part of me wonders why certain cities even have the issue addressed in the first place (versus simply relying on existing verbage about "damage" and "deface" to cover the issue).

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

I never did have much luck extracting with a probe. Our soil goes from clay to brick. How about a 6-3/4" x 1/4" tuck point trowel?

 

[Skippy SH13]

Hey folks, I don't have any issues with the Lesche in the parks, I simply call it a "sod tool" (which it is). It quite literally fits the less than 1/4" wide rule on the edge (the ambiguity in the rules work in my favor, and as long as I'm not being stupid, none of the enforcement officers are interested in tackling a guy who has a small tool in the park, especially since folks are pounding stakes into the ground all day long for their canopies!). Our city isn't that big, and I've gotten to know pretty much all the officers that patrol and the parks and rec managers. Their primary concern is that any flaps I cut are put back properly, and that I'm doing my best to keep the grass nice. Everything is well irrigated, so it's not a problem for dry ground damage.

It probably doesn't hurt, too, that our city uses blades for airation Cuts in the sod aren't a big deal for our grass type.

I've been told by one of the parks groundskeepers that they don't mind the MDers as they really keep the trash way down. Most of them come up to thank me. Which seems to be NOT a common experience for most folks on this forum. I've even had a few even point out where the folks were in the last weekend (I've had some great coin spills from that). One of the groundskeepers LOVES to send his two St. Bernards over to me while I'm digging. They pad up and like to get RIGHT IN MY FACE. The first time I thought I was going to crap a brick. Now I just laugh when they appear. It's still VERY startling, but funny as all get out.

Other than the odd-ball cranky person, most folks are quite friendly. Especially when I start giving out matchbox cars I find in the ground, to the kids around (I seem to find a few of those every trip).

I love when Government understands it's FOR the people, and BY the People... It makes it so much easier when the laws are in place to be enforced when necessary, to stop the idiots, rather than to enforce rules that prevent decent folk from doing good things. It seems our City government really operates that way, using enforcement as a tool to correct stupidity, rather than punish do-gooders and regular citizens into submission. They GET the fact that banning stealing hasn't stopped thieves, just like banning MDers isn't going to prevent idiots from digging, it just means that the people who WANT to do it right, don't get to... there will always be someone out there who MD's anyway.

That's the kind of government I can get behind, and our city does a good job of that. Our PD and even Mayor's office are VERY interested in helping people engage positively in the community, rather than looking for ways to punish people into submission. I've even been asked periodically, by city parks folks, to go hit specific tot-lots because of the potential for new nails and stuff that has come in from the new bark. Folks know MDers provide a service in addition to enjoying their hobby. They also know that personally, I return finds when I can. That helps, too.

As I said, I love my city. Grateful to be in it.

Nearby ones are pretty great, too. Just this past week, I was in a park, and a groundskeeper and I had a great chat. He told me of a gal who lost a wedding ring last fall in the park, at her WEDDING RECEPTION (Poor thing!) and showed me the area. It was only after I'd shared my pictures of returns, though. He realized pretty quickly that this was a hobby, and that I was a decent guy. Showed me the spot, and wished me luck, even telling me that I could keep it. It told him that I planned on calling it in, if I'd found it. He was surprised, but at the same time, I could tell, yet again, I'd made a friend.

My son and I searched for 3 days (every inch of that place), and didn't find it. Found a total of 8 other rings (couple of men's rings, costume jewelry, and a few silver rings...but nothing that would approach a wedding ring). I called the experience in, but was actually pretty disappointed (so was my kid) that we didn't find the ring. That would have been freaking amazing to have a return like that. Parks and Rec appreciated the call, and I gave them my number if that have someone lose something in the future.

I should also note and say THANK YOU to all the great examples on this forum about doing the right thing. I've always believed you catch more flies with honey, and that's been my experience as well. Everyone who shares they got a great location permission or had a teller call in silver (like in Coin Roll Hunting), all knows the value of being NICE to people. Thanks for helping me along my journey, as well. Best forum ever.



Skippy

 

[TheRingFinder]

Regulations - They make me laugh.

ME TOO!!!! Another thing to think about -
"My Gosh, he dug a hole........can you imagine the damage to the ground"? How pathetic, it's not like we are digging up someone's manicured lawn -It's frickin dirt and grass / weeds!!!!

 

[Skippy SH13]

I'd have NO problem MDing a manicured lawn. That Lesche makes clean cuts and leaves no evidence when done correctly. I love it.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I'd have NO problem MDing a manicured lawn. That Lesche makes clean cuts and leaves no evidence when done correctly. I love it.

Correct. If the "issue" is about "damage" (ie.: alter,deface, dig versus dug, etc....), then the END result is what's really at stake, right ? If you and I have left-no-trace, then most reasonable people will agree that there's no harm then, right ?

Then in that case, we can all agree that when some gardener or cop tells you "scram", it's most always going to be STRICTLY DUE TO the "connotations". Ie.: that you might *not* fill that hole. That you might *not* be so neat about it, etc.... Hence I have no problem in my conscience about avoiding being seen by such people (ie.: feel no need to get their approval, change their minds, prove my "neatness", etc....). Instead of thinking I need to "please every last person in the city", it's sometimes simply better to avoid those individual lookie-lous, and just pick more "off-time". Ie.: before 8am. Or after 6pm, etc.... Why swat a hornet's nest in the first place ?

 

[Skippy SH13]

Oh, totally, Tom.

I also love the complete strangers that feel it reasonable to come up and ask "Are you digging holes?" I've just gotten to the point I answer, "no, I follow the cities rules, and have permission to cut flaps, there's no damage." just to head off any confrontation. As a result, I've personally never had any problems with folks.

My 12 year old son, on the other hand, appears to be a target for cranky people. They'll pass me right up, and while walking by, they'll do drive by comments to him. Things like, "you're horrible for digging up our parks," and then keep walking. My son is NOTHING but a good hearted kid, and he always takes it hard. There's not a malicious bone in that kids body. Apparently, other people have them. I've often considered confronting them (they're usually walking a track circuit, and they pass by again and again), but city rules note that "Metal detectorists are expected to be ambassadors for their hobby and should observe the highest standards of respect for persons and property at all time."

As a result, I've never complained, confronted back, or shown irritation to folks. I'll occasionally walk away, or say, "Thanks for chatting!" and put my headset back on, but I try hard to be respectful and polite. Some days though, I just want to bite back at the mean people who are picking on my kid.

Won't do any good though... I know that deep down. Polite wins more arguments than debate.

Correct. If the "issue" is about "damage" (ie.: alter,deface, dig versus dug, etc....), then the END result is what's really at stake, right ? If you and I have left-no-trace, then most reasonable people will agree that there's no harm then, right ?

Then in that case, we can all agree that when some gardener or cop tells you "scram", it's most always going to be STRICTLY DUE TO the "connotations". Ie.: that you might *not* fill that hole. That you might *not* be so neat about it, etc.... Hence I have no problem in my conscience about avoiding being seen by such people (ie.: feel no need to get their approval, change their minds, prove my "neatness", etc....). Instead of thinking I need to "please every last person in the city", it's sometimes simply better to avoid those individual lookie-lous, and just pick more "off-time". Ie.: before 8am. Or after 6pm, etc.... Why swat a hornet's nest in the first place ?

 

[RustyGold]

"I should also note and say THANK YOU to all the great examples on this forum about doing the right thing. I've always believed you catch more flies with honey, and that's been my experience as well. Everyone who shares, they got a "great location" permission or had a teller call in silver (like in Coin Roll Hunting), all know the value of being NICE to people. Thanks for helping me along my journey, as well. Best forum ever."

Great post Skippy!