River Finds . . . what the . . . ?? UPDATE

Valley Ranger · Sep 15, 2011

Got back on the river today with my diggin' partner, Doug Hill and made some great finds. A good number of CW bullets and musket balls - dropped and fired, percussion cap, etc. (Video coming soon.) But I also found these two non-ferrous items. When I pulled the first one out of the river (that's a quarter beside it), I thought it was a ear piece to a pair of glasses. Could be, but it seems to me to be too thick and heavy for that. It has some decorative design on it and some lettering on the back - some too faint to see, though I can make out what appears to be "OND" - maybe "LONDON"? The second piece looks like rolled up lead. Both of these were found in the vicinity of heavy Civil War activity. What do y'all think? (Pics are a bit out of order, the last one obviously is another of the find that looks like it could be an ear piece to a pair of glasses, if it weren't so thick.) Any ideas on either item would be appreciated.

UPDATE - Check out the last photo I found searching on the internet. Here's the description - (Note - that last photo is not a picture of mine):

"Medieval Bodkin. Silver, 3.61 grams; 69.25 mm. A beautiful example of a 15th Century bodkin used in the weaving process. The head has a typical Early Acorn Top with cross hatch decoration. The loop is elongated and shows signs of use making this a most interesting addition to any medieval collection. Very Fine condition. Ex. Kirkton collection."

Link: http://time-lines.co.uk/medieval-silver-bodkin-002266-8849-0.html

I think Derfel maybe on the the right trail. What do y'all think?

Valley Ranger · Sep 16, 2011

Re: River Finds . . . what the . . . ??

sharkman said:
O.S.
Looks like a handmade needle for sewing canvas sacks, or sails or just sewing leather. When I was a kid I made lots of needles for sewing up feed sacks. Lived on a farm....work....work!
Is it made out of silver??

Sharkman/Rod

I'm thinking it might be made of silver. I don't see a silver mark on it anywhere though . . . maybe too old

Valley Ranger · Sep 16, 2011

Re: River Finds . . . what the . . . ??

sharkman said:
O.S.
Looks like a handmade needle for sewing canvas sacks, or sails or just sewing leather. When I was a kid I made lots of needles for sewing up feed sacks. Lived on a farm....work....work!
Is it made out of silver??

Sharkman/Rod

You and relicdude could be right as well. "Bodkins" were used as headpins and to sew, from what I'm seeing by doing some searching. Most of these are "very old." If that's what it is, I'm thinking 18th century. The Frontier Culture Museum is close to my home and they've been very helpful in the past on helping ID some items for me. I may run it by there for the curator to take a gander at.

CRUSADER · Sep 16, 2011

Re: River Finds . . . what the . . . ??

Old Stonewall said:
sharkman said:

O.S.
Looks like a handmade needle for sewing canvas sacks, or sails or just sewing leather. When I was a kid I made lots of needles for sewing up feed sacks. Lived on a farm....work....work!
Is it made out of silver??

Sharkman/Rod

Click to expand...

I'm thinking it might be made of silver. I don't see a silver mark on it anywhere though . . . maybe too old

I don't think its silver, but they are made from many materials including bone & wood etc... What bothers me a little about it, is the hole would normally be much bigger, at least twice the size would be normal. As the hole looks man made, maybe made for a particular task that only took a thin cord, net making/repairing?? or something that took a thinner ribbon :dontknow:

Its not a Medieval example but most likely 1700s (I think). Need a sewing expert for a better verdict, but I think Derfel nailed it :hello2:

Valley Ranger · Sep 16, 2011

Re: River Finds . . . what the . . . ?? UPDATEQ

Thanks Crusader. I'm going to see if it cleans up a bit better later tonight.

CRUSADER · Sep 16, 2011

Re: River Finds . . . what the . . . ?? UPDATEQ

Old Stonewall said:
Thanks Crusader. I'm going to see if it cleans up a bit better later tonight.

It looks as clean as it will get without you taking off the patina, so leave it, would be my advice. specially as rarity/age & function have yet to be totally established.

Valley Ranger · Sep 16, 2011

Re: River Finds . . . what the . . . ?? UPDATEQ

CRUSADER said:
Old Stonewall said:

Thanks Crusader. I'm going to see if it cleans up a bit better later tonight.

Click to expand...

It looks as clean as it will get without you taking off the patina, so leave it, would be my advice. specially as rarity/age & function have yet to be totally established.

Will do - thanks for the advice.

timekiller · Sep 16, 2011

I would agree that it is for sewing.But has been modified from a spoon (lead alloy) in my opinion.Much like this one in my hand that I broke tring to straighten out.I've found other things I think were made to sew with & are quite small & made of lead.
Take Care,
Pete, :hello:

Slabman · Sep 16, 2011

Hey Stonewall,
Nice finds! Unroll the lead thingy. I found a piece of copper on a fort site that was rolled up like that,
and it turned out to be a paint stencil with a soldiers name, rank, etc. I almost chucked it into the junk
pail, but luckily I unrolled it.

Slab

timekiller · Sep 16, 2011

Re: River Finds . . . what the . . . ??

Old Stonewall said:
Thanks folks. I think we can rule out letter opener, though that's a good guess. I didn't post a side view, but its much too thick for that. It is the perfect length and shape for a glasses ear piece, but again, too thick and heavy. Just about all of the glasses I've seen from the 19th century and prior had light, wire type ear pieces. This thing is quite heavy and, again, thick. Now the suggestion it could be a hand off a clock is a possibility. I'll post a side view of the tip later this evening so you can see what I mean by the thickness of the item. Thanks for everyone chiming in!

No takers on the other item?

The other item is what I call just scrap lead rolled up.I think I did read somewhere one time that they rolled up lead like this & used it as quick bullets,but don't remember where I read that now. :icon_scratch:

I just call it scrap & have got plenty of it in buckets outside.Some I think are from glass windows from back in the day.
Take Care,
Pete, :hello:

Valley Ranger · Sep 16, 2011

Re: River Finds . . . what the . . . ??

Timekiller said:
Old Stonewall said:

Thanks folks. I think we can rule out letter opener, though that's a good guess. I didn't post a side view, but its much too thick for that. It is the perfect length and shape for a glasses ear piece, but again, too thick and heavy. Just about all of the glasses I've seen from the 19th century and prior had light, wire type ear pieces. This thing is quite heavy and, again, thick. Now the suggestion it could be a hand off a clock is a possibility. I'll post a side view of the tip later this evening so you can see what I mean by the thickness of the item. Thanks for everyone chiming in!

No takers on the other item?

Click to expand...

The other item is what I call just scrap lead rolled up.I think I did read somewhere one time that they rolled up lead like this & used it as quick bullets,but don't remember where I read that now. I just call it scrap & have got plenty of it in buckets outside.Some I think are from glass windows from back in the day.
Take Care,
Pete,

Thanks Pete! I didn't know that. Man, the stuff you learn metal detecting and on the forums. Amazing!

RELICDUDE07 · Sep 16, 2011

Yes i said way back -its like a english fur trade good for sewing.Look at bobs stuff in fur trade on this site ,or ask him.1650-1750-That rolled lead alot of people find them around british camp sites battle areas-they would make bullets out of it & smoke it like crack!

Irregular · Sep 16, 2011

Old Stonewall said:
I think Derfel maybe on the the right trail. What do y'all think?

Since you've asked, Rick, I can only say Odds Bodkins, I think you've got it!!! Good job there, pard! :hello2:

CRUSADER · Sep 16, 2011

Timekiller said:
I would agree that it is for sewing.But has been modified from a spoon (lead alloy) in my opinion.Much like this one in my hand that I broke tring to straighten out.I've found other things I think were made to sew with & are quite small & made of lead.
Take Care,
Pete,

that's a good idea, I was trying to think what it may have been, since the hole was so crude :icon_thumright:

now we need to match a style of spoon to it?

lead-alloy or a kind of pewter mix, would look silvery if scratched :wink:

Valley Ranger · Sep 16, 2011

Irregular said:
Old Stonewall said:

I think Derfel maybe on the the right trail. What do y'all think?

Click to expand...

Since you've asked, Rick, I can only say Odds Bodkins, I think you've got it!!! Good job there, pard!

Hey Doug - good to see you here. BTW, I'm pretty sure that Bodkin is silver. Very pliable and where I nicked it, it's very shiny. I chased that durn signal for more than a half hour under 10 inches of water - glad I didn't give up!

Valley Ranger · Sep 16, 2011

RELICDUDE07 said:
Yes i said way back -its like a english fur trade good for sewing.Look at bobs stuff in fur trade on this site ,or ask him.1650-1750-That rolled lead alot of people find them around british camp sites battle areas-they would make bullets out of it & smoke it like crack!

"Look at bobs stuff in fur trade on this site ,or ask him.1650-1750"

RelicDude - I'm not understandin' what you mean here. Who's Bob, do you have a link? Thanks!