Salvage association

[Peg Leg]

My friends I agree wholeheartedly with everthing that Pat is saying.
Was anyone aware that the State of Florida is NOT issuing any lease agreements on the 1733 fleet. The reason for this is that the Federal Court has said that these ships are the property of Spain and do not belong to the State of Florida. But Florida still says that they OWN the rights to these ships under the 1987 laws of Abandonment and Spain is saying these ships were never abandoned.
And the mess gets deeper and deeper.
Peg Leg

 

[ScubaFinder]

Here is a great letter that I thinks sums it all up....well worth the read.

http://www.oceancommission.gov/publicomment/floridacomments/abt_comment.pdf

Jason

 

[ScubaDude]

Grubby, Don't shoot everyone in the knee quite so fast. I for one wasn't in a hurry to jump on the bandwagon because your not exactly setting an example I care to follow. Not to mention the original thread has hardly been up 24 hours.

The purpose of the thread was to explore doing something other than status quo. We've had some good input, I'm sure there is more to come.

What other organizations are out there? One that will represent all concerns, all geographic areas, etc. Is there something we can get behind or do we need to start from scratch?

 

[ScubaFinder]

Brad, I'm glad you said that and not me No offense meant Grubby, but we are trying to figure how to better work WITH the govt. rather than how to fly under the radar. I do agree with what you say about it being wrong for them to step in and claim our rewards, but this is the real world. How are you going to feel when California decides you have plundered enough gold from your ship, and comes knocking. I bet your share will be a lot less than it would have been had you struck a deal with the state in the beginning. Everybody has their own belief on what is right, and I happen to be one of the ones who believes that preserving the history and artifacts for the public to see is at least as valuable as the gold.

This generally requires some sort of agreement with the powers that be. So long as we can keep that agreement fair to the salvor (this should be the focus of this group), then I'm all for leasing sites from the state and turning artifacts over to them for preservation. A working relationship between the two benefits everyone, because we aren't out taking everything in the shadows, and they aren't wasting police resources (and tax dollars) on trying to catch us. I'd hate to see this turn into an age of true piracy...I like to joke about it, but the truth is that would be bad for everyone...yourself included. The feds making deals with Spain is ludicrous, and a different story alltogether. I wish U.S. citizens could say "Hey, I stole that fair and square, and then threw it away and left it for 400 years, but it's still MINE". Try that in your district court.

Brad, I think the one we should look seriously at is HSSPC (Historic Shipwreck Salvage Policy Council). If they don't serve everyones interest, then they at least are a good working model for us to follow. They have actually made progress, made changes, and placed members on committees that made decisions. They have been focused on the state of Florida, but only because that is where all the good stuff is coming from. I bet if Grubby got into a tiff with Cali they would lobby just as hard for his cause as they did Mel and Bob's. If nothing else, it's the closest thing we've got to look at.

Jason

 

[toolboxdiver]

Since this topic seems to be of interest to a good number of people I thought it deserved its own thread. I agree with the general thinking that it would be nice to have a collective voice. What is also going to have to be a part of this deal is that who ever signs on is going to have to agree to a code of ethics and standards. Where do ya'll want this to go? My thoughts are that marine salvage is a large enough animal, I don't wish to alienate other THunters, but marine salvage legalities are my foremost concern. I feel the waters would get muddied in a hurry to expand this group to include land based THunting.

Share your thoughts, I'm curious what others want.

I would like to hear more and be willing to help if I can......Send me a PM or E Mail

 

[tom yerian]

Grubstake!! Welcome to the world of piracy!! Your doing the right thing. If all of us did the same thing, we would have the gov/archeologists, over a barrel! Keep up the good work,and fly the skull and bones, proudly!!!Travis.

 

[Peg Leg]

I think that I have said enough.
Until you have some CLOUT you are kidding yourselves.
Peg Leg

 

[Skimmer]

Hey Peg-
You're right, enough said. Clout=strength in numbers.
Monitor the IMAC site, they give a heads up if
peding legislation or hearings are happening, and
tend to be a voice of reason and experience, especially here in Florida. The squeaky wheel always gets the grease! We just need to squeek LOUDER than the naysayers.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

i am just curious, how many salvaged ships does it take to saturate the market and available museums etc.? Where does the archaeology factor end? How many warehouses are now filled to capacity and never will be utilized? What would more accumulations accomplish?

Let's face it, we are interested in the $$$$ and adventure, otherwise we would just go back to school and become professional archaeologists. So, all the more the reason to band together with a proven unit.

Tropical Tramp

 

[ScubaFinder]

I agree that the museums, archies, and states only need so much treasure...and I wish we could go buy an old 3 masted boat and sail around with cannon loaded and a jolly roger flying proudly above...but be real. There ARE laws, and you WILL wind up in prison if you chose to ignore them. Worse still, acting like a pirate will only cause more trouble for valid salvors trying to do things the right way. Tom Yerian, your ideas are FAR from the right ones...and if you'll read around a bit, you'll find that Ole Grubstake has every intention of getting the proper agreement with California when the time is right. I'm sure there are some good Pirate forums out there, but this one deals with the legal and responsible recovery of maritime artifacts.

Jason

 

[Peg Leg]

Well my friends I have decided to do things myself as best I can with what I have.
If it takes getting Permission from Spain then so be it.
Everyone wants to TALK and TALK and TALK but talk can only go so far.

Has anyone done a study showing what it is costing the TAXPAYER to house all the ARITIFACTS that the State of Florida has stashed. I doubt it. Does anyone have any idea of the number of coins-silver and gold the state has and that have never been checked with what is already been inventored. Bet not.
If you want to shake things up INFORM the TAXPAYER where their tax dollars are going.
Point out the fact that only so many coins were minted during a certain period of time so why does the State of Florida continue to gether more and more of the same dated coins and then put the coins in storage never to be seen by the public. BUT yet the TAXPAYER has to foot the storage bill year after year.
AUDIA RESOURCES will do whatever it feels is best for AUDIA RESOURCES and withdraws any and all offers of Membership both Public and Private.
My friends it is time to stop playing games and get down to business.
The bottom line IS Dollars and cents.
Don Webb

 

[ScubaDude]

Maybe they (State of FLA) barter and trade stuff with other museums? I don't know....

 

[mad4wrecks]

Cornelius, probably because your money will be earning interest while it sits unused, interest which I imagine is kept for Audia Resources

Pegleg, as for making the taxpayers aware...there are so many other larger, more important, crasser examples of local, state and federal governments wasting our taxpayers dollars...much larger than what it is costing us for Florida to catalog, conserve and house treasures. (that the state of Florida did not have to pay a dime to recover by the way)

Besides, everything in their collection belongs to the PEOPLE of the state of Florida.

 

[Peg Leg]

Cornelius,
I said that IF you wanted your investment back after one year you would get it back-no more or no less. I was pointing out that Membership was NOT like buying stock which as you know can go up or down but Membership in A.R. will never go below what you paid to start with. This is to guarantee that Members will not lose a dime.
ALSO
Take note that I also said that A.R. will no longer offer Membership either Private or Public. The KEY word here is OFFER. If anyone is interested they can contact me by PEM.
I will no longer discuss A.R. here.

As far as drawing interest on the money that is a good idea if you just let the money sit there and do nothing. No that is not the PLAN.
$2,000,000.00 USD is no much when playing this game UNLESS you have a PLAN and a LOCATION that no one knows about and I do. In fact I know of 3 such places of which I will not discuss with anyone.
If you have any question you can send me a PEM and we will talk.
BUT I want to add this.
I will ask for you to sign a NDNC Agreement before I will discuss any details.
Don"PEG LEG" Webb

 

[Skimmer]

Thank you, Cornelius........my sentiments exactly,
someone needed to say it. Peg leg is a regular
poster who we all seem to enjoy, I bet, but as far
as taking him seriously, well.........
For those of us who actually work in this field,
I believe we need to work within the system. Seems
like several of the other posters here are of a like mind,
even if we wish we could do otherwise. I know I hate
turning in all my hard found gold, silver and artifacts
to the Fishers and then have to wait for the State to make its choices, and have to give the Fishers their share, THEN I get my diviision.....but thats the system I choose to work within for the time being. AND, I have
friends and people I meet who would give their left ***
to be in my shoes, to have the sanctioned right to
head out on 1715 sites and legally pull up the 300 year old Spanish treasure. The Fishers fought hard to establish this agreement with the state, and continue
to facilitate this opportunity. Anyone willing and able to work within their parameters is welcome to do so, and they will assist you with charts, info, and good advice
(its in their best interest that you dig in the right place and haul as much as you can onboard, right?) Boy, do I
sound like a company man or what? Anyway, for the tme
being, this is the system, at least for me. If you look at
the history of this system, I believe you'll see this is the
only aboveboard way to go.....wheher you're working the Jupitor wreck, on the 1715 fleet, or in the Keys.

 

[Skimmer]

Hey..um....I didn't mean the Jupitor wreck was administered by the Fishers, I meant they have a
similar agreement with the State.

 

[Skimmer]

Also: According to author Allen H. Craig, "Spanish Colonial Coins in the Florida Collection" (University Press of Florida) 23,000 specimens are currently in the possesion of the State of Fl. This does not count
the gold and artifacts, ONLY silver coins. There is a companion book detailing gold coins by the same gentleman which is "out of print" according to my sources. Seems like a lot of coins, huh?
In their defense (the state) along with administering these wrecks, and all that that entails...such as monitoring boats working this area, ensuring that they have "C" numbers, (by air, and by boat) and that proper documentation of area searched, and objects found , does burn up some manpower and funds in this endeavor, so maybe "for the people of Florida" who can't
be in our line of work, this is an equitable trade off.

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI,for the benefit of those that thought that I was advocating a behind the back move with Florida, no way! I have been waiting for some years to start recovery on the Tayopa project, but am held up by red tape. Besides, being a member of the Explorers Club requires a high set of standards, this would never be tolerated. Actually my personal ones would not allow it either.

Tropical Tramp

 

[Peg Leg]

Cornelius and Skimmer,
Most of the time when I posted information concerning A.R. I was feeling out what was the best approch to see what reaction I would get and to get opinions. The value I started with was $100.00 which seemd a little high so I went to $10.00 and still no response so I stopped offering Memberships PERIOD.
Cornelius I seem to recall that at one time you were looking for Investors for a special project you had and I also recall that you received "0" responses. You also appeared to get upset. I did not get upset and my orginal plans have not changed. The only thing that changed was my approch.
Skimmer,
Yes the state spends a lot of Tax payers money how else can they justify doing what they do and keeping what they TAKE from those that spend their OWN MONEY and having the Sate of Florida came and take a percent without saying THANK YOU.
23,000 SILVER COINS being saved for the people of Florida. I wonder where they are keeping MY coins and when can I get MY coins. I would just like to see MY coins. I am a Native of Florida and have been here going on 70 years and have yet been shown a single coins that the State of Florida is holding for me.
There is a wind of change starting to blow.
Peg Leg

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI again, incidentally, what about the artifacts that are being produced now?, where will they store them?

As we move up in time from the Spanish period, we will be overwhelmed in the near future? after all an object only 50 years old -such as me? - is now considered an archaeological object.

Tropical Tramp