Screwtop- How Old Is It?

[Bigcypresshunter]

Someone brought this eBay ad to my attention. Does anyone know when these screwtops were first used or invented? Its being sold as a 1715 artifact by someone unknown to me.. Is this possible to be a 1715 artifact? Its approx. 2 inches diameter.

http://cgi.ebay.com/120724702170?ru...02170&_sacat=See-All-Categories&_fvi=1&_rdc=1

 

[Tony in SC]

Going buy the threads and the machined circle on top I doubt that it came from one of the 1715 treasure ships, probably from a treasure hunter's ship. I don't think that type of metal would last that long in sea water. I've seen something like it before but can't place it. Tony PS is kinda big for a shaker ?

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

First screw-top jar was 1858.

Here's some handy bottle facts.

http://www.bottlebooks.com/basics.htm

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

First screw-top jar was 1858.

Here's some handy bottle facts.

http://www.bottlebooks.com/basics.htm

This is what I was always told. But these type of threads were not used until the early 20th century. I dont even think the 1715 era used any metal screw threads (edit: of this type) The ad also looks bad in that it states the item is either pewter or silver. She cant tell the difference? To me in the picture it looks brass..

Im sure suzyseaweed found it diving as a sub for Mel Fisher, like she says, but I dont think it can be connected with the 1715 fleet. This is my opinion please tell me if im wrong. Maybe the shipwreck guys will know more. Thanks Tony and Charlie for responding..

 

[kuger]

I know that Hazards Blackpowder Co. used threads on there can stoppers back to 1833,but they were a more course thread

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

My bad. Misunderstood the question & didn't follow the link.

Here is the base of a "mid 18th century apothecary searce" (mortor with sieve) with a threaded base.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

My bad. Misunderstood the question & didn't follow the link.

Here is the base of a "mid 18th century apothecary searce" (mortor with sieve) with a threaded base.

Could I see the link so I could read about it?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I know that Hazards Blackpowder Co. used threads on there can stoppers back to 1833,but they were a more course thread

Yes I always thought the first threads were very coarse.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Here is the base of a "mid 18th century apothecary searce" (mortor with sieve) with a threaded base.

Do you have the link Charlie?


Can anybody else help?

Here is some history of the screw. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screw#History

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

BCH - the link is

http://www.phisick.com/zapoth.htm Item on the upper right.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Forget the link Charlie because this item is wood. The ancient Greeks used wood threads in devices such as oil and wine presses but the technology to cut metal threads did not come into use until much later. I think a century later than 1715 but not certain.

I think your original thoughts are correct in that the first coarse threaded metal screw-top jars came into use in the 1800's.

 

[capt.caveman]

According to several of the Bottle guides the first machine turned metal lids were out of Zinc with glass insert byThomas W. Dyott in 1828/1829. Icollect all types of bottles and have probably fifty antigue bottle books and have never found any reference to any machine turned metal lid before this date. Food, medicinal, or otherwise. The technology was not available to do this before then. Now they could be done in wood and I've seem to remember reading about a hand made stone lid with threads of some sort but I can't remember where.

 

[timekiller]

BCH,
If you just want to know if they threaded things in the 18th century sure they did all kinds of things.But that pic. you posted I could not tell you if that is real or not. Here is a example just to show that they threaded things back then.(pic below) But they threaded drawer pommels,musket parts,etc.Even in the 17th century things were threaded like wheel lock mechanisms & syringes.Not sure I answered your question just came across it just now.
Take Care,
Pete,
1st-1740 pewter baby feeder
2nd-17th century pewter syringe which looks close to your pic there kinda.


1st-An increasingly hard to fine example of an English pewter baby feeder dating to the early 18th century, in excellent condition. The cap can be unscrewed to fill the bottle.





2nd-The October 2009 issue of National Geographic carries a story about the recovery of a 16th century shipwreck. One of the items pictured is a five-inch mercury syringe which, NatGeo reports, “would have been used to administer doses of mercury to travelers plagued by syphilis, epidemic in 16th-century Europe.” The photo below is of a similar syringe from VintageMedical.com

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thanks timekiller. Its was just something on eBay discussed on another site and I wanted to know. The item sold for $149 and apparently the buyer is happy so maybe its an authentic 1715 era piece. Thinking about it, I probably should have not posted this because I dont want to cause the seller any unnecessary grief.

According to several of the Bottle guides the first machine turned metal lids were out of Zinc with glass insert byThomas W. Dyott in 1828/1829. Icollect all types of bottles and have probably fifty antigue bottle books and have never found any reference to any machine turned metal lid before this date. Food, medicinal, or otherwise. The technology was not available to do this before then.

Thats what I always thought.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

BigCy ~

I just now saw this thread and thought I would add my 2-cents worth. Some time back I did some extensive research on the history of antique threaded closure bottles and inadvertently found myself researching ancient Egyptian artifacts. I soon discovered that as far back as circa 2,500 BC, the Egyptian pyramid and tomb builders employed a "turning/drilling" thecnique that may also have included "threaded lids" for jars and other items. I say "may" because I never did find an actual picture of a jar with a threaded lid. However, the ability to do so was definitely available to them. I did find dozens upon dozens of "drilling" thecniques that are very similar in principal. Plus, I know they actually "drilled out" the interiors of small granite stone pieces to make jars.

The primary reasons I share this information is because ...

1. I know you like old tools.
2. I don't think it should be too surprising to see a 1700s item with threads.
Especially considering the seller guaranteed it to be authentic with
documentation.

Following are a couple of website I thought you might like. The first one includes a photo gallery with a number of interesting pictures showing ancient Egyptian drilling examples. The second one is a video which depicts how the early drilling process was achieved.

SBB

Photo/Info Link:
http://www.hallofmaat.com/modules.php?name=Articles&file=article&sid=57

Video Link: Note: It starts with a short commercial.
http://science.discovery.com/videos/what-the-ancients-knew-i-shorts-egyptian-drill.html

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Thanks Bob. I realize it comes with a certificate of authenticity but I also realize there are shipwreck items mixed in from differrent centuries on those reefs. It has been authenticated but they cannot determine if its silver or pewter?

Maybe I should leave well enough alone because it appears that threaded metal lids were in use in 1715 even though corktops were much more common. I conclude its very possible to be an authentic 1715 artifact even though the metal cannot or has not been determined... Maybe its a very low grade silver.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

P.S. ~

I forgot to mention that the ancient Egyptians also used a form of "threaded" nuts and bolts. Not to mention saws and various other tools.

SBB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I wonder how many threaded items were used on Spanish galleons?

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Good question and one worth researching. Another worthwhile search would involve the history of pewter, zinc, etc.

SBB

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I kept the brass spikes but whenever I found a large screw on those beaches, I cast it aside as modern. Certainly threaded items were used on 1715 era muskets and now I learn there are threaded containers so maybe they were used for wood fasteners as well? Ill have to take a second look at any threaded items found on those beaches if I ever get up there again.