Season 12

[TruthbeTold]

Curse of Oak Island Season 12, Episode 24 Recap

Yet more rinse and repeat nonsense.

The laginas have done an excellent job of proving to everyone that oak island is nothing more than a long running scam.

 

[Armchair detective]

I would assume that he was considerate of others and didn't want to leave a potentially dangerous hole left open in the ground.

Why would he worry about it if there was a platform at 10 ft?

 

[AstralDruid]

Any chance they are on the wrong island ??

 

[Carl-NC]

Who's story was it that convinced the Onslow Company to come in and dig? The story was out long before what was first known written story about it. Should let you know there were probably other stories written about it just haven't been found.. The ole saying of everything known is not written and everything written is not known..

That is, again, the whole point. Nothing you think you know about the OI origin is reliable. Yes, something convinced Onslow to dig a hole but we don't have that information.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Why would he worry about it if there was a platform at 10 ft?

So some poor animal doesn't fall in and can't get out? More importantly, they didn't want any person to drop ten feet into a hole.

 

[n2mini]

That is, again, the whole point. Nothing you think you know about the OI origin is reliable. Yes, something convinced Onslow to dig a hole but we don't have that information.

That's just my point though. There is more info out there it's just not all known to us at this point in time. Onslow had a reason to form their group and dig. A lot of people on here want to throw out there that the first story written was around 1850's or somewhere around there, but a lot of stuff had already happened at that point. Sure whoever wrote that story was probably dealing with a lot of here say since the story was about something that happened 50-60 years prior.. Both sides of this story have people that want to believe certain parts of certain stories and then not believe others.

 

[Carl-NC]

It's true that the first recorded history was around 1850, and it's likely that what was recorded by then is unreliable. There are certainly numerous versions of the story, and they can't all be true. It is also true that there was activity before 1850, Onslow if nothing else. Those activities are sketchy at best, but something very likely happened. The 'why' is a Big Question, and based on everything that has happened since then the most probable reason is that people from the very beginning have misinterpreted what has been found. They saw what they wanted to see -- buried treasure -- instead of what was really there -- a sinkhole. People to this day continue this fallacy.

 

[Armchair detective]

So some poor animal doesn't fall in and can't get out? More importantly, they didn't want any person to drop ten feet into a hole.

Seems like a lot of unnecessary work -10 platforms worth with all the dirt between them.
Why not just one at ten feet, and dirt on top?

 

[FreeBirdTim]

You can slant it any way you want, but someone filling in a hole has no connection to someone finding buried treasure. Doesn't make sense at all. "Wow, I found this buried treasure, but I'd better fill in the hole before I leave!" Not gonna happen! You'd get the heck out of there ASAP because you'd be afraid the person who buried it might show up.

 

[Armchair detective]

You miss the point. Didn't say they found it.

If the hole was STILL filled in when encountered, the WHATEVER was most likely still there.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Guess we'll never know the truth. I do know the Laginas will never find any treasure.

 

[Armchair detective]

Guess we'll never know the truth.

Tru dat.

 

[n2mini]

If it was the Templers or Malta or anyone like that, that was some what on the run and taking their religious artifacts to hide and try to blend in with the locals. You might have reason to cover up the hole once you retrieve your goods out of it as to not bring any attention to it...

 

[SSR]

Any chance they are on the wrong island ??

The wrong island for what? What appears to have inspired the shifting of stories to OI is the imagination of Freemasons (Archibalds) who had an older colonial story to exploit. Making it play out on your relatives' associate's land (Vaughn's wife was related to the main searchers) is much more practical for the relatives to secure a gain. Add to that the origin stories got popularized by Vaughn only after John Smith had died. Even when Smith was living, Vaughn had tried to fake ownership of lot 18 to sell at least one lease to an unsuspecting gullible fool. There's a wonderfully geometric canvass to exploit on OI that comes from Morris' 1762 plan and survey. If you looked on the ground and were not ware of it you might trick yourself into seeing ghosts.

As a candidate earlier story, Desbrisay gives us the Hobson's Nose retrieval account. That seems to be the start of it.

 

[Limitool]

The wrong island for what?

Exactly.... "WHAT"...? I heard a rich old Indian Chief buried a huge treasure in my front yard. Maybe I should go look for "that or a what".

 

[SSR]

If it was the Templers or Malta or anyone like that, that was some what on the run and taking their religious artifacts to hide and try to blend in with the locals. You might have reason to cover up the hole once you retrieve your goods out of it as to not bring any attention to it...

The Knights of Malta were independent 17h century privateers operating in Europe in their last real incarnation. Where these original authentic individuals had made their living in the protection and housing of pilgrims on the pilgrim trail to Jerusalem, the later name bearers aren't because the Reformation has happened and put and end to the medieval travel schemes. By the 1600s there was nothing left of that. Whoever was left as a card carrying member was at the employ of European Kingdoms (mainly France) and would not have even an ideological remnant link to anything in the distant past. He is Knight of Malta in name only. He roleplays a different role under an old flag which he may or may not have recollections of. Do any of them have a link to religious relics of Templar suggestion? We do not even know the Templars did. If you allege to be in possession of an object mentioned in a story that was in the lineage of possession of Kings who we do not even know existed (King Solomon, i.e.) then what is your claim to truth?

The Templars were notoriously known to have faked religious relics and flooded Europe with them. Kingdoms gleefully went along. None tried to discredit it. Fortunes were made with the ensuing pilgrimages everywhere. Security was paid for. No self respecting major Cathedral could go without a claim to a holy relic. Money poured into Rome. Does this inspire confidence?

Today you still have degrees of Freemasonry that use the historical realities as signs and symbols for any new role players. If you are a modern Knight of Malta role player you harbor and take care of your fellow "pilgrim" in his Masonic journey.

There's enough borrowing of stories to be of use to the COOI writers. They can blend that in very well with what previous Masonic individuals were saying in NS in the 1840s when they were telling you with details they are onto Enoch's shaft and vault.

 

[GravelTeeth]

They saw what they wanted to see -- buried treasure -- instead of what was really there -- a sinkhole.

One of the archived Blockhouse Blog entries [here] has some interesting things to say about that. Doug Crowell interviews engineer John Wonnacott, who says:

"If there was a natural cavity formed in the bedrock, possibly from salt water eroding the anhydrite bedrock, that could cause the till above the cavity to slump, thus weakening and loosening the till. However if that happened, the shape of the slumped till would be an inverted cone, and the zone of loose till would be quite wide at the ground surface (something like 60 feet in diameter or more). No one has ever seen a wide slumped area near the Money Pit – the original reports always said the depression in the earth was 12 or 13 feet across."

So it seems to be this guy's opinion that the Money Pit was not a sinkhole. Just something to consider when weighing the possibilities.

--GT

 

[SSR]

The Knights of Malta were independent 17h century privateers operating in Europe in their last real incarnation. Where these original authentic individuals had made their living in the protection and housing of pilgrims on the pilgrim trail to Jerusalem, the later name bearers aren't because the Reformation has happened and put and end to the medieval travel schemes. By the 1600s there was nothing left of that. Whoever was left as a card carrying member was at the employ of European Kingdoms (mainly France) and would not have even an ideological remnant link to anything in the distant past. He is Knight of Malta in name only. He roleplays a different role under an old flag which he may or may not have recollections of. Do any of them have a link to religious relics of Templar suggestion? We do not even know the Templars did. If you allege to be in possession of an object mentioned in a story that was in the lineage of possession of Kings who we do not even know existed (King Solomon, i.e.) then what is your claim to truth?

The Templars were notoriously known to have faked religious relics and flooded Europe with them. Kingdoms gleefully went along. None tried to discredit it. Fortunes were made with the ensuing pilgrimages everywhere. Security was paid for. No self respecting major Cathedral could go without a claim to a holy relic. Money poured into Rome. Does this inspire confidence?

Today you still have degrees of Freemasonry that use the historical realities as signs and symbols for any new role players. If you are a modern Knight of Malta role player you harbor and take care of your fellow "pilgrim" in his Masonic journey.

There's enough borrowing of stories to be of use to the COOI writers. They can blend that in very well with what previous Masonic individuals were saying in NS in the 1840s when they were telling you with details they are onto Enoch's shaft and vault.

Guess we'll never know the truth. I do know the Laginas will never find any treasure.

One of the archived Blockhouse Blog entries [here] has some interesting things to say about that. Doug Crowell interviews engineer John Wonnacott, who says:

"If there was a natural cavity formed in the bedrock, possibly from salt water eroding the anhydrite bedrock, that could cause the till above the cavity to slump, thus weakening and loosening the till. However if that happened, the shape of the slumped till would be an inverted cone, and the zone of loose till would be quite wide at the ground surface (something like 60 feet in diameter or more). No one has ever seen a wide slumped area near the Money Pit – the original reports always said the depression in the earth was 12 or 13 feet across.".

So it seems to be this guy's opinion that the Money Pit was not a sinkhole. Just something to consider when weighing the possibilities.

--GT

I, for one, have never liked the suggestion it was a sink hole. That's a rationalist's attempt at explaining what he does not know was ever there. A sink hole does not explain a depression that was not there in the case it's a fabrication.

Three kids never discovered this alleged thing in 1795. Another local story of a depression under a tree with a block hanging from it belongs to another local treasure account. Spaced out levels of a certain number belong to yet another story from elsewhere. Multiple stories converge at OI. The ultimate insult is that even the stories they borrow from are not given as purely factual events.

What I would expect today if you called in some "experts" and fed them details of the OI origin story is for them to placate you and take your money. It's not hard to find people who think it's great to show off their trade.

Absolutely nothing we know creates fantastic money pits.

 

[Carl-NC]

"and the zone of loose till would be quite wide at the ground surface (something like 60 feet in diameter or more)."

Sinkholes come in a wide variety of sizes. Ferinstance, how large was the Cave-In sinkhole of 1878?

I, for one, have never liked the suggestion it was a sink hole. That's a rationalist's attempt at explaining what he does not know was ever there. A sink hole does not explain a depression that was not there in the case it's a fabrication.

Something got this whole thing wound up, and I am willing to believe it was a depression in the ground (a most likely scenario) that got some imaginations running full throttle. Given the geology of the area, a ground depression is (again, most likely) explained by a sinkhole.

 

[TruthbeTold]

Hi Carl. You know I have been doing research on treasures for over 6 decades almost 7 decades. I have everything that happened on Oak Island. I sent it to the Fellowship of the Dig but no reply and that was two years ago. Grandmaster Jacque de Molay ordered 3 treasure ships to sail from La Rochelle in 1304AD, 3 years before his capture. One of the ships got stuck in the swamp area of Oak Island. They built a signal fire out on what is today, Isaac's Point. The other two ships came to the rescue. It seems the Captain of the La Tutore, Juan de Alvarez IV I (41) years old, with a crew of 61 went into a channel during a huge storm to ride out the storm. He set forward and aft anchors and lowered his 3 mast sails. The next morning the captain found out he made a terrible mistake and was grounded. The other ships tried towing him out but that did not work. So they unloaded the La Toture (The Guardian). They even used the ballast stones to start making a road for the off load. Everything was taken off including the treasure of which I have the manifest of all three ships.

I have the names of all three ships, their captains and their crew number of men. After off loading everything they built a kiln on what is lot #15 today. They took all the lumber and everything usable to build shelters for their men for the long haul. They then burned the ship to the shoreline in the swamp using oil from a whale they killed for that purpose.

201 men began the task of dowsing for water to drink. They dug 3 wells but only one had good water. One of the holes ended up being a 140 foot deep natural shaft. A Narragansett Native was lowered down with a candle or a lantern but he was blown to pieces by the methane gas. To remedy this situation they theorized that the swamp fresh water mixing with the salt water was making the methane gas or swamp gas so they constructed a 42 1/2 foot sea wall at both ends of the swamp. They did not want anyone else killed.

The kiln they constructed on lot #15 was used to burn seashells for lime and used to make mortar for the sea walls. The work continued the Winter of 1304AD with the 201 men probably a few less because two ships had set sail one to the mainland for more native help and the other was going back to Scotland to report their plans and to get a construction engineer named Ibraham, also more Knights Templar to work the tunnels and shafts and construct the Stone Road. By the Spring of 1305AD, they had increased their labor force to over 300 men.

A total of 21 was killed in the construction of the shafts and tunnels and 2 were critically wounded. The treasures were concealed and the entrance was filled back with logs placed every ten feet to keep it from all settling back in.

They dug down at an oak sapling for Well #3 for water. At 39 feet they hit the first clay pack. They made a tunnel between 33 feet and 39 feet, 4 feet wide and 6 feet high for a distance of 89 feet from the West side of the Money Pit. While 39 feet below the ground they dug another 50 feet taking this shaft down to 89 feet or the second clay pack. They also took the Money Pit Shaft down to 89 feet or the second large clay pack. From here they sloped a small tunnel a distance of 522 feet at an uphill climb to come out 2 feet above high tide and there they constructed the finger drains of 13 inch vertical stones into a collector which extended to the Money Pit of which was 18 inch vertical stones. A 5 inch chestnut wood door was constructed for the water trap and was overlaid with gold. Other water trap doors were constructed in the 2nd shaft and another was constructed 600 feet from Well #1 under the Swamp at a depth of about 109 feet by the time they traveled from the 2nd hidden shaft 1547 feet at a downward slope of 40 feet from the original 89 feet they were then 129 feet deep on the West Side of the Swamp. The Treasure Chamber was 31 feet high and 6 feet wide and 68 feet below the surface of the ground. The treasure is still there to this day.

In 1769, Captain Timothy McLaren came to recover the treasures for the Freemasons as they were the descendants of the Knights Templar. All the treasures were recovered except for one box 36 inches long by 14 inches wide and 12 inches high. The box contained gold bars, gold coins and jewelry. The Relic, "The Head of John the Baptist, sealed in iron 10 inches by 9 inches by 6 inches and packed inside in wool. Only two captains knew that the relic was not placed into the box but was taken by Lionel de Waldren IV to the Mountain of the Goddess, "Hunter's Mountain" in the Catskill Mountains of present day New York.

The Relic was buried near Sand Lake with the sign of the Goddess or "Crescent Moon" shaped stone on top of it. The "Crescent Moon" was the same sign carved above a water drain or tunnel or cave at Mount Petra where the Prophet Jeremiah hid the Holy Relics from Jerusalem according to 2 Maccabees in the bible. Sir Ralph de Sudeley discovered these treasures after 1180AD and his trip to the Mountain of the Goddess in New York, the directions to the Holy Relics was given in the "Alpha Scroll" obtained a the Mountain of the Goddess. Sir Ralph de Sudeley's Journal and affidavit sworn to and the scrolls of ancient knowledge he recovered is written in the "Cremona Document" by Don Ruh.

But anyway the block and tackle found hanging on the 465 year old Oak Tree by the 3 young men was left there in 1769AD when the treasures were recovered by Captain Timothy McLaren. The box containing the gold bars, gold coins and jewelry is still buried on Oak Island at a depth of 68 feet below the surface and is on the West Side of the Swamp. But I will never get to see the treasure nor will I be given any credit should it ever be recovered. But at least you heard it here first from yours truly. Any questions I would be glad to try and answer any and all. Thank you.

Here is the original depositor treasure map. On the left of the Swamp is well #1 with the big arrow pointing down to the treasure 68 feet below the surface. The other is well #2 which is 50 feet south of Well #1 and is beside a huge boulder. Well #1 is surrounded by a ring of stone probably larger than the ring of stones on Lot #5. The other Well #3 is what is called the Money Pit but actually the entrance. You can see the stone road to Smith's Cove from the ship La Tutore, the water trap, and the quay that was built 21 feet long and 2 feet above high tide. That is everything in a nut shell and they have been digging for 230 years at the entrance while the treasure is on the other side of the Swamp.
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Franklin: You are now back with yet another fictional story. Does this story supersede all of your others?

Previously you had fictional king arthur's brother bringing treasure to oak island.

Then you had the templars bringing treasure to oak island to use the space/time portal in the money pit to take the treasure to Mars.