Serious Treasure Hunters Only

[Tiredman]

Now I'm up time for coffee and work on that next book!

 

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[miboje]

Do you have anything on Pennsylvania?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Very true, for sure. Many "stories" get published. Many finds do not. ...

Terry, this is a commonly cited line, whenever a TH'ing method is under review (ie.: "show us the results") , or a venue of treasures is under critique (ie.: "has any ever been found??"). The defense will be as you say: "yes we find treasures with this" or "yes these type leads have produced treasure" . But ... durnit .... no one is forthcoming with proof-of-results because they fear the IRS, thieves, claim-jumpers, etc..... Hence no proof will be forthcoming. But rest-assured: It works

There's really no way to disprove that sort of answer . It would be like me saying: I have a unicorn as a pet. If you said "prove it to me by showing it to me" , I could say: "Well gee, I can't. Because the moment I open the door to show you, he turns invisible" Or ... "the moment I could open the door to show you, you will turn into pillar of salt". (you wouldn't want that to happen, would you?) . But rest assured: I have a unicorn as a pet.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... Moral of the story: even official papers can re-print oft repeated errors (fiction). ╦╦Ç

Yes. When you see a treasure story that contains faded newspaper clippings, that might seem pretty convincing. Eh ? Or old accounts of "2 boys dug a pit and found such and such. Then they dug deeper and found a layer of such & such". Can't argue with period accounts, eh ?

But you are right: Yester-year news source had to get their information from SOMEWHERE, didn't they ? The reporters were human just like us, right ? They merely interviewed persons who'd come down from the mountains and wrote down select statements as they saw fit. But it fails to ask oneself "how accurate is what they were being told ?" Subject already to telephone game EVEN THEN ? How accurate was the statements being jotted down by the reporters ? Remember: no recording devices then. Just what the reporter hears, how he interprets to pen it, etc... And we all know that a boring newspaper story (with no conjecture or speculation) doesn't sell as well.

Not saying "all newspaper accounting is suspect". But just saying: Be willing to consider more-plausible explanations that could exist.

 

[TerryC]

Terry, this is a commonly cited line, whenever a TH'ing method is under review (ie.: "show us the results") , or a venue of treasures is under critique (ie.: "has any ever been found??"). The defense will be as you say: "yes we find treasures with this" or "yes these type leads have produced treasure" . But ... durnit .... no one is forthcoming with proof-of-results because they fear the IRS, thieves, claim-jumpers, etc..... Hence no proof will be forthcoming. But rest-assured: It works

There's really no way to disprove that sort of answer . It would be like me saying: I have a unicorn as a pet. If you said "prove it to me by showing it to me" , I could say: "Well gee, I can't. Because the moment I open the door to show you, he turns invisible" Or ... "the moment I could open the door to show you, you will turn into pillar of salt". (you wouldn't want that to happen, would you?) . But rest assured: I have a unicorn as a pet.

What color is he/she? ╦╦Ç

 

[TerryC]

Here's MY tip to anyone interested.... Battle of Ball's Bluff, Leesburg, VA. (recorded in records) About 1200 "Federals" crossed the Patomac and climbed Ball's Bluff. Johnny Reb knew they were coming so they set up a large horseshoe ambush around the meadow. The Feds were routed and were stabbing themselves in their haste to retreat back down the bluff. They were ordered to throw their equipment, including rifles, into the river so they would not be captured. So.... the battlefield is a national park, no searching there. BUT in the water, downstream from the bluff, could be as many as a thousand rifles. They would be in the mud and silt so even the wooden stocks could be intact today. Trees and debris floating down the river would have moved many downstream from the park, making them fair game to anyone able to brave the DANGEROUS, underwater work that would be required for this recovery. Also, TOM_in_CA (or anyone), I have a CA stagecoach gold "loss" that was recorded in the local papers that may still be worth a "look see". ╦╦Ç

EDIT: I posted the battle here a few years ago.

An addendum to my above post....

Hello Terrance,

Thanks for contacting us. The Battle of Ball's Bluff was fought on 22 October 1861. The Union and Confederate forces numbered about 1,700 soldiers each with the Union suffering 953 casualties and the Confederates appropriately 200.


For the Union, soldiers of General Stone's Division of the Army of the Potomac, however not all of his regiments fought at Ball's Bluff. The units who fought at Ball's Bluff were the 15th and 20th Massachusetts Infantry Regiments, the 42d New York Infantry, the 1st California Infantry (not actually from California but raised in honor of those on the west coast who stayed with the Union. Later became the 71st Pennsylvannia Infantry) and a pair of James Rifles (12 pdr cannons) from the 1st Rhode Island Light Artillery Regiment and the 9th New York State Militia.


On the Confederate side, units engaged at Ball's Bluff belonged to the Seventh Brigade of the Confederate Army of the Potomac under Colonel Nathan G. "Shanks" Evans. The units were the 13th, 17th, and 18th Mississippi Infantry, the 8th Virginia Infantry, and a company of Virginia cavalry under Lt. Col. Walter Jenifer.


Several Union commanders, once the battle turned into a rout, did indeed order their men to throw their weapons into the Potomac so the Confederates couldn't capture them and to lighten their load as they tried to escape across the river.


If you have anymore questions, please feel free to contact me again.


Sincerely,


Matt Fitzsimmons
--
Assistant HistorianArmy Historical Foundation
intern@armyhistory.org
www.armyhistory.com

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... Several Union commanders, once the battle turned into a rout, did indeed order their men to throw their weapons into the Potomac so the Confederates couldn't capture them and to lighten their load as they tried to escape across the river. ....

We had a guy in our CA club, who had moved here from the CW states. And I believe it was that story that he and his buddies had chased in the 1970s. Via ropes and super-magnets , scuba, etc.... I forget what they found. But he said that for the next few decades that followed, ........ every year ....... he'd see a team of new-guys each time, poised with all sorts of recovery efforts staging their efforts (magnets, scuba, high-tech, etc...) off the bridge.

Every year, a new person(s) stumbling onto the same historic reference, each going full-hog off the same bridge.

 

[TerryC]

We had a guy in our CA club, who had moved here from the CW states. And I believe it was that story that he and his buddies had chased in the 1970s. Via ropes and super-magnets , scuba, etc.... I forget what they found. But he said that for the next few decades that followed, ........ every year ....... he'd see a team of new-guys each time, poised with all sorts of recovery efforts staging their efforts (magnets, scuba, high-tech, etc...) off the bridge.

Every year, a new person(s) stumbling onto the same historic reference, each going full-hog off the same bridge.

Tnx. Wonder if they found anything. Oh, if I were just 30 years younger..... I would also have the wetsuit and tanks on! ╦╦Ç

 

[Tom_in_CA]

I recall he said something about how it had been recorded that cannons had been dumped into a river over a certain bridge. And that the location of the bridge itself had not changed since CW times, till today. So they reasoned that .... therefore .... the cannons should still be there! Hence this may or may not be the same story that you are speaking of.

That was in the mid 1980s this fellow moved to our area. So it was either in the earlier 1980s, or perhaps late 1970s he was alluding to. They rationalized they could get them via giant magnets, then tried probing the mud via long bars at every point on each side of the bridge (rationalizing that a cannon would sink straight down, and not "move"). I don't recall talk of "rifles". So perhaps it's not the same story.

Then he said that for each year thereafter, at the peak of the low-water summer heights, they'd repeatedly see others trying the same thing. Each with all sorts of sophisticated new efforts. At a certain point, they didn't even bother stopping or rolling down their windows to say "been there, done that".

I don't think they found anything of value. Who knows ? Perhaps someone in the years before them had already done it ? Doh!

 

[TerryC]

We had a guy in our CA club, who had moved here from the CW states. And I believe it was that story that he and his buddies had chased in the 1970s. Via ropes and super-magnets , scuba, etc.... I forget what they found. But he said that for the next few decades that followed, ........ every year ....... he'd see a team of new-guys each time, poised with all sorts of recovery efforts staging their efforts (magnets, scuba, high-tech, etc...) off the bridge.

Every year, a new person(s) stumbling onto the same historic reference, each going full-hog off the same bridge.

They're digging in the wrong place! (Raiders of the lost Ark). The battlefield is almost 700 yards down-river from "The bridge". That would mean the rifles and gear would be even further down. Also, were they thrown in on the west side or east side of Harrison Island? LOTS of variables would make this a very difficult recovery. One of those "when I got the time" things. ╦╦Ç

 

[TerryC]

I recall he said something about how it had been recorded that cannons had been dumped into a river over a certain bridge. And that the location of the bridge itself had not changed since CW times, till today. So they reasoned that .... therefore .... the cannons should still be there! Hence this may or may not be the same story that you are speaking of.

That was in the mid 1980s this fellow moved to our area. So it was either in the earlier 1980s, or perhaps late 1970s he was alluding to. They rationalized they could get them via giant magnets, then tried probing the mud via long bars at every point on each side of the bridge (rationalizing that a cannon would sink straight down, and not "move"). I don't recall talk of "rifles". So perhaps it's not the same story.

Then he said that for each year thereafter, at the peak of the low-water summer heights, they'd repeatedly see others trying the same thing. Each with all sorts of sophisticated new efforts. At a certain point, they didn't even bother stopping or rolling down their windows to say "been there, done that".

I don't think they found anything of value. Who knows ? Perhaps someone in the years before them had already done it ? Doh!

Either a different story or a questionable version of this one. There was no bridge near the battle site. 2 or 3 boats were used to ferry hundreds of troops across the river, taking all night, I believe. Two cannon were in support but I believe they were never brought across the water. Either (any) version merits scrutiny. This was a well documented battle so the REAL researchers have ample documents to peruse. ╦╦Ç

 

[TerryC]

Either a different story or a questionable version of this one. There was no bridge near the battle site. 2 or 3 boats were used to ferry hundreds of troops across the river, taking all night, I believe. Two cannon were in support but I believe they were never brought across the water. Either (any) version merits scrutiny. This was a well documented battle so the REAL researchers have ample documents to peruse. ╦╦Ç

Seems to me there were cannons dumped up at Harper's Ferry, up river a bit. ╦╦Ç

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Either a different story or a questionable version of this one....

Yes. Perhaps a different battle & different story @ another altogether different locale.

But it just goes to show that easy-to-access well-known CW stuff like that, will have repeat generations of persons who read the same thing, and rush out. HOWEVER: I'm not sure about the CW hunter's levels of hard-core research and addiction. Because here in CA, it never ceases to amaze me how some seemingly obvious leads never get hit.

It's a sort of regional thing I suppose. Here in CA, some parts of the state have had all their "obvious spots" exploited. Yet in other parts of the state, we have found some stage stops to be virgin, even though they were "no secret to the history books". I suspect it's also a function of the timid-ness of hunters . Ie.: whether or not they want "red carpets rolled out" for them.

Example: In the story you give: If it were possible to find the spot. And if it were possible to retrieve the rifles/relics: I'll bet you dollars to donuts that I could probably find some law, by the governing entity of that river, that disallows you to take things. It probably falls under something to do with cultural heritage or "disturb" or "remove", etc... Now of course you and I know that you'd be HARD-PRESSED to find anyone that cares. Or even notices what you are doing. Yet there are some hunters that will fret themselves with worry, and don't hunt @ any place that less timid than sand-boxes.

But based on my friend's story, it seems that there's CW caliber hunters that will pull out all the stops, and are hard-core in the venue of CW relics.

 

[TerryC]

Yes. Perhaps a different battle & different story @ another altogether different locale.

But it just goes to show that easy-to-access well-known CW stuff like that, will have repeat generations of persons who read the same thing, and rush out. HOWEVER: I'm not sure about the CW hunter's levels of hard-core research and addiction. Because here in CA, it never ceases to amaze me how some seemingly obvious leads never get hit.

It's a sort of regional thing I suppose. Here in CA, some parts of the state have had all their "obvious spots" exploited. Yet in other parts of the state, we have found some stage stops to be virgin, even though they were "no secret to the history books". I suspect it's also a function of the timid-ness of hunters . Ie.: whether or not they want "red carpets rolled out" for them.

Example: In the story you give: If it were possible to find the spot. And if it were possible to retrieve the rifles/relics: I'll bet you dollars to donuts that I could probably find some law, by the governing entity of that river, that disallows you to take things. It probably falls under something to do with cultural heritage or "disturb" or "remove", etc... Now of course you and I know that you'd be HARD-PRESSED to find anyone that cares. Or even notices what you are doing. Yet there are some hunters that will fret themselves with worry, and don't hunt @ any place that less timid than sand-boxes.

But based on my friend's story, it seems that there's CW caliber hunters that will pull out all the stops, and are hard-core in the venue of CW relics.

Many CW battle sites are being "closed down" by friends of the CW type groups. There are still some camps still detectable but they are getting picked over by the hunters you mention. I do not consider myself an avid relic hunter anymore. I DID find a few CW bullets in NC ('90s). I say those hunters should GO FOR IT, if they wish. I just hope they say something of the finds. ╦╦Ç

 

[s.c.shooter]

Lost Confederate Treasury ?

 

[45th_Johnny]

s.c.shooter, that is a loaded question if ever I heard one. I know the location on only one, but it is in Louisiana. If you want to look for that one, I will present my case for it. It does require underwater hunting. Let me know if you want to try for it.

 

[Truth]

s.c.shooter, that is a loaded question if ever I heard one. I know the location on only one, but it is in Louisiana. If you want to look for that one, I will present my case for it. It does require underwater hunting. Let me know if you want to try for it.

Do you mean underwater scuba or underwater snorkeling?


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[45th_Johnny]

Truth, yes underwater the coins are scattered over a large area.

 

[Truth]

Truth, yes underwater the coins are scattered over a large area.

Yeah is it shallow water or should I start with scuba lessons? I'm serious too. I went to Jacob Dr yesterday. Didn't find much but I did find a elephant claw bell and a metal book box.


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[45th_Johnny]

Truth, at least it is something. Most of what we found was on the other side of the canal, that is probably why we never searched that side. The U.S. plates I found were from Ammo pouches, or boxes, unless my cousin found buckles. Not sure anymore. Take my advice and never get old. After I get off line I am going to try and call him.