Several items/arrowheads

[Cherry99]

Hello! I have inherited some items from my relatives. Can anyone help identify their origins and value? I am happy to take more pictures if necessary. Thanks for your time!

 

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[welsbury]

Good grief they gave you some very fine examples.What area did they come from?

 

[Cherry99]

Good grief they gave you some very fine examples.What area did they come from?

We are from Missouri. My cousin travelled the world a lot, so I'm not sure where she acquired these.

 

[Garscale]

Good pics of the white point on left showing flaking both sides would help. As a matter of fact I would like to see good focused pics of most of that from both sides. Looks like some good stuff.

 

[vpnavy]

1st - I noticed this was your very first post - so, Welcome Aboard Cherry99!

2nd - Here are few informative articles talking about Indian Arrowhead Identification...

Projectile Points Arrowhead Identification Guide

We currently have over 1,700 unique points listed...

Official Overstreet Indian Arrowhead Identification Online Database

...Showcases over 60,000 photographs
all of which have been included in the Indian Arrowheads Identification...

How to Identify Arrowheads

...Native Americans designed many different arrowheads
about 1,200 types are on record...​

 

[ToddsPoint]

The pink point in the center of the right pic is a Dalton. It is pink because it is heated Burlington flint. Since Dalton people didn't heat their points, I'd would guess that point is modern made. Gary

 

[Garscale]

The pink point in the center of the right pic is a Dalton. It is pink because it is heated Burlington flint. Since Dalton people didn't heat their points, I'd would guess that point is modern made. Gary

So would I. I would guess that Snyder looking point and the Dalton were made by the same fellow. I didn't want to comment much until I saw better pics. The white point on left shows the end of a flute termination where the pic cuts off. I think i see that anyway. Edge work is odd for a fluted point although it has nice flat flaking on the face.

The plummets look like great basin legit items. The drill looks like Texas and the far right may be a worn out Texas Wilson. Need better pics.

Edit. I had not opened the pics and now see they are panoramic. Not sure what to make of the long white paleo. Bannerstone may be good but weird pecking or damage around the hole.

 

[unclemac]

you seem to have some "iffie" stuff with some authentics. And a mix of materials and regions. you can take the time and money to have them authenticated, or just pop them up on ebay pricing them according to what similars have sold for.

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Gary, I see there are other reasons for concern that people are seeing.

Is it possible that a point could have turned pink because of being heated by a wildfire?

I’ve seen wildfires hot enough to melt bullets and coins. Seems like a pretty high likelihood a dropped point could be burned over before it gets buried in the dirt or migrates downward. Around here (where there is shallow bedrock), a point could lay on the surface for hundreds of years if not much longer.

Is that a possibility, or is it a special process that can’t be replicated simple by heating?

 

[uniface]

I’ve seen wildfires hot enough to melt bullets and coins

Lead bullets, for sure. Coins (copper/silver/gold) ? Seems pretty unlikely, given the temperatures & durations required.

copper = 1984 degrees fahrenheit
silver = 1762 " "
gold = 1615 " "
(All +/- depending on alloy)

Chert toasted in/by a fire often does change color. But even though the inside can be glassier, the exposed surface will be dull. FWIW

edit to add #s

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

I was wondering if the Burlington Flint changes color simply by being heated up and gradually cooling. I suppose if that was the case, there would be pink flakes routinely found?

--------------
Uniface..kind of a side track,but since you questioned what I said...; )
In blacksmith class, we would put a piece of iron in a pile of wood charcoal and heat the iron hot enough to forge weld it simply blowing on the coals with a fan for 10 minutes. That's 1700 to 2500 deg. F

Take an old growth log with heavy timber litter laying around it..say 4.5 foot in diameter and let the wind blow on it for for a half day till all that is left scorched earth. It will likely get plenty hot, especially if it's laying on rocks.

Hard to imagine, but it's not out of the question at all. All comes down to the chances a there is something to be melted laying under heavy woody debris...AND there is some fresh oxygen blowing steady on it.
---------
I don't want to hijack this thread because I was hoping the Cherry99 would post some fronts and backs for further discussion.

 

[ToddsPoint]

Gary, I see there are other reasons for concern that people are seeing.

Is it possible that a point could have turned pink because of being heated by a wildfire?

I’ve seen wildfires hot enough to melt bullets and coins. Seems like a pretty high likelihood a dropped point could be burned over before it gets buried in the dirt or migrates downward. Around here (where there is shallow bedrock), a point could lay on the surface for hundreds of years if not much longer.

Is that a possibility, or is it a special process that can’t be replicated simple by heating?

uniface is correct. Here's the difference. When you heat Burlington it will usually change color if heated hot enough. When it comes out of the fire and cools, it is not glossy. It doesn't show gloss until the first flake is removed. Since the Dalton is glossy, there is no way it was heated accidently. Gary

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

uniface is correct. Here's the difference. When you heat Burlington it will usually change color if heated hot enough. When it comes out of the fire and cools, it is not glossy. It doesn't show gloss until the first flake is removed. Since the Dalton is glossy, there is no way it was heated accidently. Gary

Gotcha. Now I understand. Thank you.

 

[Tpmetal]

Lead bullets, for sure. Coins (copper/silver/gold) ? Seems pretty unlikely, given the temperatures & durations required.

copper = 1984 degrees fahrenheit
silver = 1762 " "
gold = 1615 " "
(All +/- depending on alloy)

Chert toasted in/by a fire often does change color. But even though the inside can be glassier, the exposed surface will be dull. FWIW

edit to add #s

Only speaking to the temps you mention, nothing to do with artifacts.... But a simple camp fire can melt glass, wild fire can certainly melt those materials with a proper fuel source and just a very slight breeze.

 

[Garscale]

uniface is correct. Here's the difference. When you heat Burlington it will usually change color if heated hot enough. When it comes out of the fire and cools, it is not glossy. It doesn't show gloss until the first flake is removed. Since the Dalton is glossy, there is no way it was heated accidently. Gary

Correct.

 

[uniface]

In blacksmith class, we would put a piece of iron in a pile of wood charcoal and heat the iron hot enough to forge weld it simply blowing on the coals with a fan for 10 minutes. That's 1700 to 2500 deg. F

Take an old growth log with heavy timber litter laying around it..say 4.5 foot in diameter and let the wind blow on it for for a half day till all that is left scorched earth. It will likely get plenty hot, especially if it's laying on rocks.

Hard to imagine, but it's not out of the question at all. All comes down to the chances a there is something to be melted laying under heavy woody debris...AND there is some fresh oxygen blowing steady on it.

Sorry for leaving that impression. The spanner in the works is that I conflated the melted silver &c. report (from other sites) with the artifacts pictured in the original post. Had those kinds of temperatures been present with them there would have been no intact artifacts to find/show.

Since the Dalton was only gently toasted, I assumed stuff I shouldn't have.

My bad. Sorry !

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

I'm confused... ; ) but I did learn that the Dalton was flaked AFTER it was heated.
Thus the lack of a dull surface appearance.

Weird the OP posted up that collection but never followed up.