Should we buy deepest detector or not?

[George (MN)]

We hate to miss things that could be valuable, but what if we detect mostly manicured lawns such as schoolyards, private yards, & parks? If we can't make a hole neatly beyond 5" deep with our probe such as screwdriver, should we not buy detector that goes beyond 5" & save $1,000+?

We like to see impressive air tests if we do them, and congratulate ourselves on buying the best. But what if we get arrested for digging a foot deep hole? Should we not buy a detector that tempts us to dig that deep? What is the rational way to think about this?

Is we don't hunt private property, our deepest coins might come from beaches, sand playgrounds and volleyball pits. Is 7"-8" about the max depth required for these places? Best wishes, George (MN)

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

I have one that is 15 years old and works fine. My ex11 must be 13. As a matter of fact I have 4 that are total of 38 years with out a single problem. On the other hand I have 4 products from another manufacture that have all failed for a 100 percent failure rate. The last thing I worry about is a $275 detector that I've found hundreds of silver coins with. It owes me nothing.

Wasn't talking about what you own, was simply warning members buying an Explorer or Explorer II that they cannot be repaired, there are no parts available.

If someone is going to buy Explorer or Exp II they need to know they can't be repaired, if you buy Explorer at least buy the SE or SE Pro, they are supported til 2020...

Why sink $275-$300 into something that can't be fixed if it breaks, better off buying something supported...

 

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[dirtscratcher]

I hear ya. I just saying they don't break very often. I would rather gamble $275 on an Explorer than buy a let's say a pinpointer that break every 3 months but it has a warranty.

 

[bill from lachine]

Phantasman,

Just my 2 cents for what it's worth....the hardest part of this hobby in my opinion is being on the right site or just getting your coil over the good finds regardless of the caliber of the machine or depth it can reach.

I've seen lots of killer finds over the years posted and the machines used were everything from entry level, mid range to high end....so the machine alone won't be the only factor in finding the keepers.

Regards + HH

Bill

The problem in MD choices is that most can't just go test one as one can test drive a car. They rely on others opinions. Those opinions don't always agree. It's why we buy, sell and trade to find what is right for us. I can tell you how great a Nissan Rogue is, but when you finally drive one, it may not be your ideal automobile. We used to pick cars by how fast they went from 0 to 60. I don't anymore, others may.

I don't knock anyones choice of detectors. I've tried all major brands over the years, and what I have now exceeds not only the depth of most of the others, but have the best hunting experience for how and what I hunt. It's deep enough as I have dug some 10" targets. If depth were paramount, why doesn't everyone just get two-box detectors? Then you're deeper than most.

For those that feel so happy to take the 20% most won't get, do us a favor and make a video of those deep hunts. There are so very of them.

 

[Phantasman]

I agree, Bill. The question from the OP is sort of loaded. There are many factors present to have a successful hunt. Depth is only one of many. Some deep detectors have harnesses made for them due to the weight. I'd rather not wear a harness. Others may. Some older detectors can't distinguish two different targets 2" apart due to poor recovery rate (my Xterra 50 was one) yet my Bandido 2 killed the X50 on recovery. It wasn't as deep though. Some people believe they have the best detector. Best at what?

Now go ask what the best detector is on the forum. Ask what is deepest. Ask which is best in high mineralization. Underwater. Detecting relics. Gold.

Todays detectors have reached a maxed depth potential, If you want more depth, get a larger coil. Read this from Dave Johnson and John Gardiners interview a few years back:

DS: Are we about “maxed out” as far as how deep VLF units will go? In your opinion, what’s the biggest obstacle for current technology in achieving increased useable detection depth?
Dave: "Getting extra depth out of a VLF, multifrequency, or PI machine is very difficult, because these machines follow an inverse 6[SUP]th[/SUP] power law relationship between signal voltage and depth. If everything else is maintained equal, doubling the depth requires 64 times as much signal. If this is done by increasing transmitter power, doubling depth requires 4,096 times as much battery drain. That’s the basic reason why depth increases come so slowly in this industry.
The biggest impediment to getting usable depth in the ground, is interference from magnetic and electrically conductive minerals in the ground, which can produce signals hundreds of times as strong as that of the metal target you’re trying to detect and hopefully identify. There are several approaches to extracting the metal signal from the ground mineral signal, but they all have their limitations. That’s why you see several different technologies coexisting in the market."
John: "Dave points out biggest obstacle which is seeing target through the Ground and Air interference."

If I "have" to go deep, I'll buy a NEL BIG coil and search in all metal. That is supposed to get me in the 16"-18" range. $550 then in my machine and coil and I bet no stock $1500 machine will top it's depth. See the perspective? Depth is over rated, IMO.

 

[bill from lachine]

Phantasman,

Good post....On another thread along the same lines I mentioned I had found some pretty good keepers at a 1920's circa school yard....LCs, gold rings, etc....but I had to strip out the top 4" or so of finds to get to them....a deeper machine at a site like that wouldn't have made much difference in my opinion.

Regards + HH

Bill

 

[bill from lachine]

Phantasman,

Another thing to consider is by law detectors are capped as to the frequencies they can use....so as not to interfere with radio stations, police, fire depts, etc...so other than power boosts and a few other bells and whistles they've pretty much maxed out what they can achieve depth wise.

Regards + HH

Bill

I agree, Bill. The question from the OP is sort of loaded. There are many factors present to have a successful hunt. Depth is only one of many. Some deep detectors have harnesses made for them due to the weight. I'd rather not wear a harness. Others may. Some older detectors can't distinguish two different targets 2" apart due to poor recovery rate (my Xterra 50 was one) yet my Bandido 2 killed the X50 on recovery. It wasn't as deep though. Some people believe they have the best detector. Best at what?

Now go ask what the best detector is on the forum. Ask what is deepest. Ask which is best in high mineralization. Underwater. Detecting relics. Gold.

Todays detectors have reached a maxed depth potential, If you want more depth, get a larger coil. Read this from Dave Johnson and John Gardiners interview a few years back:

DS: Are we about “maxed out” as far as how deep VLF units will go? In your opinion, what’s the biggest obstacle for current technology in achieving increased useable detection depth?
Dave: "Getting extra depth out of a VLF, multifrequency, or PI machine is very difficult, because these machines follow an inverse 6[SUP]th[/SUP] power law relationship between signal voltage and depth. If everything else is maintained equal, doubling the depth requires 64 times as much signal. If this is done by increasing transmitter power, doubling depth requires 4,096 times as much battery drain. That’s the basic reason why depth increases come so slowly in this industry.
The biggest impediment to getting usable depth in the ground, is interference from magnetic and electrically conductive minerals in the ground, which can produce signals hundreds of times as strong as that of the metal target you’re trying to detect and hopefully identify. There are several approaches to extracting the metal signal from the ground mineral signal, but they all have their limitations. That’s why you see several different technologies coexisting in the market."
John: "Dave points out biggest obstacle which is seeing target through the Ground and Air interference."

If I "have" to go deep, I'll buy a NEL BIG coil and search in all metal. That is supposed to get me in the 16"-18" range. $550 then in my machine and coil and I bet no stock $1500 machine will top it's depth. See the perspective? Depth is over rated, IMO.

 

[Phantasman]

Phantasman,

Another thing to consider is by law detectors are capped as to the frequencies they can use....so as not to interfere with radio stations, police, fire depts, etc...so other than power boosts and a few other bells and whistles they've pretty much maxed out what they can achieve depth wise.

Regards + HH

Bill

I don't know about that, but I can tell you that an electrical magnetic field is directional (up and down on the coil rather than omni-directional like a cell phone) and the transceiver field is usually no more than a few feet. If you have two detectors with the same frequency, they have to be about 6 feet apart as to not interfere with each other. EMI signal interference is usually from a "mega watts" source, usually sloppy electrical induction scattering over the frequency spectrum. Radio static on the AM radio when lightning strikes is a good example. No matter what station you're on unless you're on the FM higher bandwidth.

In the old days of CB radio, if you were close to someones house that had a Linear amplifier, no matter what channel you were on, you heard his transmission. Linears were illegal because they boosted 500 watts of power in an FCC range that allowed 4 watts max. He was probably talking to someone 4 states away, when the best you had legally was about 10 miles.

The reason I know this is because I was a burglar alarm engineer most of my life. The early motion detectors were limited in range, and were transceivers (the old ultrasonic and microwave detectors). Now they are passive infrared and you're body heat is detected rather than a change of placement.

Same science, except the motion detector was stable looking for movement, and a metal detector is movement looking for stable.

 

[Patriot 1776]

We hate to miss things that could be valuable, but what if we detect mostly manicured lawns such as schoolyards, private yards, & parks? If we can't make a hole neatly beyond 5" deep with our probe such as screwdriver, should we not buy detector that goes beyond 5" & save $1,000+?

We like to see impressive air tests if we do them, and congratulate ourselves on buying the best. But what if we get arrested for digging a foot deep hole? Should we not buy a detector that tempts us to dig that deep? What is the rational way to think about this?

Is we don't hunt private property, our deepest coins might come from beaches, sand playgrounds and volleyball pits. Is 7"-8" about the max depth required for these places? Best wishes, George (MN)

In my opinion you don't need to spend a $1,000.00
look into a Garrett AT-Pro, Great Detector and you will be able to put a lot of money back in your pocket and get great dept
any questions give me a call
dennis

Metal Detectors - View Blog

 

[cudamark]

The problem in MD choices is that most can't just go test one as one can test drive a car. They rely on others opinions. Those opinions don't always agree. It's why we buy, sell and trade to find what is right for us. I can tell you how great a Nissan Rogue is, but when you finally drive one, it may not be your ideal automobile. We used to pick cars by how fast they went from 0 to 60. I don't anymore, others may.

I don't knock anyones choice of detectors. I've tried all major brands over the years, and what I have now exceeds not only the depth of most of the others, but have the best hunting experience for how and what I hunt. It's deep enough as I have dug some 10" targets. If depth were paramount, why doesn't everyone just get two-box detectors? Then you're deeper than most.

For those that feel so happy to take the 20% most won't get, do us a favor and make a video of those deep hunts. There are so very of them.

As with all tools, it depends on the job at hand as to which tool will work the best. Most park/school/home sites that haven't been tilled, and with targets less than 8" deep, can be hunted with just about any decent detector. It's when you get into difficult ground or areas where targets are especially deep that the high end detectors shine. Using a two box is great when looking for a large deep target, but, it's useless for anything smaller than a soda can. I've found several nice, expensive pieces of jewelry that a lesser machine would not have picked up. I.E. a Rolex down at least 18 inches, in wet, salty, and mineralized sand. No low end or even medium priced machines I know of will do that. I'm very happy with the 20% they can't find!

 

[Phantasman]

Agreed. And what we are each happy with, is the key.

 

[Bayard]

The number of great coins we have walked over without detecting because they were a little too deep for our detectors has to be astronomical. At a park near my home, I've dug 4 Mercury dimes that were 10 inches deep. Do you think they magically stop sinking once they hit 10 inches? Isn't it likely that in my park there are some Barber and Seated coins deeper than these 10 inch Mercury dimes?

Assuming accurate target ID, two things matter in a metal detector: depth and separation. You want as much depth as you can possibly get and you want good separation to prevent trash from masking good targets.

To say depth doesn't matter is to misunderstand the fundamentals of metal detecting. Claiming that 6 inches is as much depth as is needed because most good finds take place at 6 inches or less is to misunderstand cause and effect. Most good finds take place at 6 inches or less because the ability of the average machine, in the hands of the average detectorist, is 6 inches or less. Deeper coins are out there. I've dug dozens of coins at 8 inches or more. I once dug a silver pendant, about the size of a half dollar, at over a foot deep. Give me an extra 4 inches beyond my current capabilities and I suspect I could pull silver from "hunted out" parks all day long.

 

[Sandman]

It is to me. If it isn't to others, fine.......more for me.....in both your examples.

Deeper isn't always better. Time spent retrieving that deeper coin could get you more shallow coins for time spent.

As for wine I like the ones in boxes.

 

[Fletch88]

The number of great coins we have walked over without detecting because they were a little too deep for our detectors has to be astronomical. At a park near my home, I've dug 4 Mercury dimes that were 10 inches deep. Do you think they magically stop sinking once they hit 10 inches? Isn't it likely that in my park there are some Barber and Seated coins deeper than these 10 inch Mercury dimes?

Assuming accurate target ID, two things matter in a metal detector: depth and separation. You want as much depth as you can possibly get and you want good separation to prevent trash from masking good targets.

To say depth doesn't matter is to misunderstand the fundamentals of metal detecting. Claiming that 6 inches is as much depth as is needed because most good finds take place at 6 inches or less is to misunderstand cause and effect. Most good finds take place at 6 inches or less because the ability of the average machine, in the hands of the average detectorist, is 6 inches or less. Deeper coins are out there. I've dug dozens of coins at 8 inches or more. I once dug a silver pendant, about the size of a half dollar, at over a foot deep. Give me an extra 4 inches beyond my current capabilities and I suspect I could pull silver from "hunted out" parks all day long.

It depends on where the hard pan is but yes they do eventually stop sinking. In my area I'm told it is around 15-16".

 

[dirtscratcher]

Deeper isn't always better. Time spent retrieving that deeper coin could get you more shallow coins for time spent.

As for wine I like the ones in boxes.

I would rather dig one deep old coin than a thousand pieces of clad.

 

[Phantasman]

@Bayard

I don't know if you're responding to me or not, but "I" never said depth doesn't matter. I said "Depth is over rated". Who's going to find the 16" deep coins YOU missed? It's all relative. You can find as much treasure with Bounty Hunter as a Minelab, as a Whites, as a Garrett, etc. etc. etc. Knowing where and how to hunt is as important as how deep you hunt.

If you enjoy hunted out parks, go for it. I study my area history and seek out old gathering places. Found plenty at 8" or less in fields, old foundations, etc. If I want to go back and seek out the 10_-12" stuff I may have missed, I spend a few hundred on a larger coil.

Personally I don't compete with other detectorists, I compete with elusive treasure. Rather than tee-heeing that I found what other hunters missed, I seek out places where they haven't even been yet. And I'm in a good area for that.

 

[Phantasman]

I would rather dig one deep old coin than a thousand pieces of clad.

Depends. 1000 clad quarters is $250. Many old coins are $5-$20.

 

[dirtscratcher]

Depends. 1000 clad quarters is $250. Many old coins are $5-$20.

You're making it sound like a job. Realistically you could make more money from a lemonade stand than clad hunting. Except maybe some guys in Canada.

 

[Bayard]

@Bayard

I don't know if you're responding to me or not, but "I" never said depth doesn't matter. I said "Depth is over rated". Who's going to find the 16" deep coins YOU missed? It's all relative. You can find as much treasure with Bounty Hunter as a Minelab, as a Whites, as a Garrett, etc. etc. etc. Knowing where and how to hunt is as important as how deep you hunt.

If you enjoy hunted out parks, go for it. I study my area history and seek out old gathering places. Found plenty at 8" or less in fields, old foundations, etc. If I want to go back and seek out the 10_-12" stuff I may have missed, I spend a few hundred on a larger coil.

Personally I don't compete with other detectorists, I compete with elusive treasure. Rather than tee-heeing that I found what other hunters missed, I seek out places where they haven't even been yet. And I'm in a good area for that.

Actually, you are competing with other detectorists. You either have to get to a good site first, or, be able to find the deep stuff that average detectorists leave behind.

You seem to believe that good sites and quality machines are mutually exclusive. Why not research good sites and hunt them with a deep seeking machine? I have a great site where I've dug 39 silver coins. I know this site was previously hunted hard by a guy using a Garrett AT Pro. He told me that he never found a silver coin there. That's probably because they were all deep and/or masked by trash. It took a high end machine and good technique to find them.

Pretending that all metal detectors are equally capable might be a nice reassuring myth for guys who can't, or don't want to, spend the money required for a high end machine; however, it is not true. Site selection is the most important variable for finding silver coins; however, once the site is located, high end equipment makes a huge difference.

 

[Newfiehunter]

Depth of deep older coins is an enigma..I once dug two Walking Liberty Half dollars at the same ball field but at different locations...One on one side of the field and the other on the opposite side....One was at a depth of over 8 inches and the other was only at 2 inches. Never found another one since.

 

[Bayard]

Depth of deep older coins is an enigma..I once dug two Walking Liberty Half dollars at the same ball field but at different locations...One on one side of the field and the other on the opposite side....One was at a depth of over 8 inches and the other was only at 2 inches. Never found another one since.

If a site gets bulldozed, coins can get buried deeper or moved toward the surface.