some confusion about the news , Arizona Gazette 22,1895

[Blindbowman]

there is some confusion about the newspaper that ran stories about the Lost Dutch mine .i will try to give you some better answers ..first off i have found 9 papers so far . i even like August 22 1895 paper so much i paid $112 for a clear clean paper ..now the papers started with the death of Waltz ,and yes i know there were papers talking about the mine before the death of Waltz but we will start this search after Waltz's death ..i am not sure if i have pictures of all 9 papers but i will do my best to share what i do have ..first of interest was the when julia return from her july and August search . on September 1st 1892 not even a year after Waltz's death , some of the news paper articles came out in other local paper's in the area and were posted as shared , Julia would make another trip the next year ,in 1893. after this date we know P.C. Bicknell ,Frank Luke ,Frank Kirkland ,and Robert Mckee,all made trips in search for the mine . which did have a few related names like the Dutch yacoop mine ,the Dutch Jacob mine ,the mythical mine ,the one of Arizona's lost El Dorado's and the lost dutchman mine .

 

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[Blindbowman]

there is some confusion about the newspaper that ran stories about the Lost Dutch mine .i will try to give you some better answers ..first off i have found 9 papers so far . i even like August 22 1895 paper so much i paid $112 for a clear clean paper ..now the papers started with the death of Waltz ,and yes i know there were papers talking about the mine before the death of Waltz but we will start this search after Waltz's death ..i am not sure if i have pictures of all 9 papers but i will do my best to share what i do have ..first of interest was the when julia return from her july and August search . on September 1st 1892 not even a year after Waltz's death , some of the news paper articles came out in other local paper's in the area and were posted as shared , Julia would make another trip the next year ,in 1893. after this date we know P.C. Bicknell ,Frank Luke ,Frank Kirkland ,and Robert Mckee,all made trips in search for the mine . which did have a few related names like the Dutch yacoop mine ,the Dutch Jacob mine ,the Dutch Jacob secret ,the mythical mine ,the one of Arizona's lost El Dorado's and the lost dutchman mine .

so we have

 

[Blindbowman]

now we see the name of the mine changes as they try to sell papers , a lot of the papers that ran in the week were ran on Saturday and some had corrections in the Saturday paper but for the most part were complete copies of the week paper articles, but do remember some of the Articles were picked up by other local papers some as far away as Tuson and the topic would even come out of San Francisco.. now note the Phoenix Gazette shows up at the bottom of the Article from Florence .

 

[Blindbowman]

now we see a paper that came out in 1894 most common , then we see this August 22,1895 paper

 

[Blindbowman]

Now i will add there is a article in the August 22 paper that list the Circle Quarter range before it was known as the Circle Quarter U range. and it also . talks about Frank Luke and Frank Kirkland working a silver mine to the north ..and talks about a train robbery . so remember when doing a search for the lost Dutchman mine articles do a search for all the names given to the mine as the legend grew up threw the early years , i am sorry if the thread looks broken some . i have 187 thousand photos on the topic

 

[markmar]

In all first three articles you posted, it's written how Julia got her info about the LDM, few hours before Waltz death.

 

[Blindbowman]

i have 9 different articles ,and when she got the date does not interest me ,what she knew does .

 

[markmar]

i have 9 different articles ,and when she got the date does not interest me ,what she knew does .

The result of her reasearch shows she didn't know enough.

 

[Blindbowman]

i believe your correct to a point , the real problem as i see it with the articles is Bicknell made a mistake and it shows up in all of his paper articles . it change the course of the legend and not for the good ..i have been talking with some of the old time Dutch hunters and they realize i am correct about this . and i pointed out how he makes the mistake and he even stated he guesses and stumbles upon clues that he thinks are relate to the mine but had no evidence to show to support the theories . but yet he was selling papers and did not stop do it .

 

[Blindbowman]

in fact Julia knew way more than Bicknell ever knew in fact he took what he was told by Julia and change the wording for the newspaper and that alone change the direction Julia gave him ..there is good reason i started with the September 1st 1892 paper and ended with the August 22 1895 paper . if you focus on a timeline from the starting point to a given end point you see how the legend develops over the timeline..how do we know this to be true . go back and look at what Jim Bark tells us vs what Bicknell says . Bicknell made a bad mistake and never corrects it ...and it takes him for one hell of a long walk ...

 

[Blindbowman]

Julia told Bark the truth . Bicknell made up some of his article to sell papers .. just by the time Jim Bark's notes were made public Bicknell's mistake had reached thousand of local people ...why few even knew Jim was question Julia, IMHO julia would never have found this mine .. Holmes or Bicknell or 99.9 % of every person that has hunted for it ..

 

[Blindbowman]

somewhere i have a link to the San Francisco article and Bicknell was crazy off topic 95% of the article is junk ..IMHO and what really kills me is Jack san Felice and many other think Bicknell's articles were where the legend started . i say where his mistake started,IMHO the problem in finding the mine started with Bicknell not Julia , look back at what Julia says to Bicknell, she tells him what she knew but when she talks with Jim Bark she tells him What Waltz told her different when you translate from German , you have to take into account,Waltz was German and told the directions to Julia in German most likely ..how she translate the german to Bicknell and how he understands what she is saying are two very different things .

 

[Blindbowman]

The result of her reasearch shows she didn't know enough.

i don't think so . IMHO she went out there in july and august , she may have let her gold fever get the best of her but it would be a nightmare to search those mountains in july and august .your talking about someone with almost no outdoor skills ... i gave her a A+ for even making it back alive ...the problem was not julia she had some miners with her even with the dead of summer heat ..at one point she gave the correct directions to Jim Bark ...

 

[markmar]

i don't think so . IMHO she went out there in july and august , she may have let her gold fever get the best of her but it would be a nightmare to search those mountains in july and august .your talking about someone with almost no outdoor skills ... i gave her a A+ for even making it back alive ...the problem was not julia she had some miners with her even with the dead of summer heat ..at one point she gave the correct directions to Jim Bark ...

She made two attempts to find the mine and had plenty of time in the mountains to find it, if she would had the right clues. But maybe the clues were incomplete and failed to put her upon the mouth of the mine.

 

[Blindbowman]

She made two attempts to find the mine and had plenty of time in the mountains to find it, if she would had the right clues. But maybe the clues were incomplete and failed to put her upon the mouth of the mine.

i understand what you're saying and anything is possible but IMHO she did have enough of the directions to locate the mine just two things stood in her way , first she had almost no skills for treasure hunting ,and second she was in one of the roughist mountain ranges in the world ...by the sounds of the times many people were interviewing her before she went in the second time . and the longer you hold the clues in your head the more they fade away ..after Bicknell started make articles things went downhill fast ..as time goes on the legend grows in more details and directions unrelated to clues Waltz gave to Julia . that's why started my timeline with the September 1st 1892 ,but from what the papers say Julia only search two years 1892 and 1893 .this also why i selected the August 22 1895 paper for the end of my timeline .it almost totally leave Bicknell out of the article and list both Frank Luke and Frank Kirkland in the details that we can prove those details in the classified part of this paper . lower down on the front page reads Shipping rich silver .

 

[markmar]

Julia , like many others, misunderstood the clues and took the wrong route.

 

[Blindbowman]

that's one way to look at it . but i have seen this mine , waltz was not joking at all this mine is hard to find even when you know where it is ..

 

[AncientofSouls]

that's one way to look at it . but i have seen this mine , waltz was not joking at all this mine is hard to find even when you know where it is ..

Jacob Waltz's mine was not just gold, right? There was something else he found, I think.

 

[Blindbowman]

i am sorry i will have to get back to you later we have had a death in our family and i just found out about it a few minutes ago ...

 

[AncientofSouls]

i am sorry i will have to get back to you later we have had a death in our family and i just found out about it a few minutes ago ...

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