Stone Bowl

[tonykidd]

Unearthed this stone bowl. It had a broken stone pipe, scraper and a hammer stone/pestle in the bowl. I save the dirt to have analyzed for contents. I haven't been able to find anything resembling this anywhere on the web. Pretty cool.

View attachment 1414015

View attachment 1414016

View attachment 1414017

View attachment 1414018

View attachment 1414019

 

[Tnmountains]

You may have someone playing a cruel joke on you. I would try to find out who.

 

[unclemac]

that stone bowl is the real dead give away. i know how i would feel if i was actually digging these great items myself...only to discover they are plants. but someone with 40 years experience should have been suspicious from the start. a newbe, i would understand, but someone who actually has connections and has been on significant digs?....no..

 

[tonykidd]

that stone bowl is the real dead give away. i know how i would feel if i was actually digging these great items myself...only to discover they are plants. but someone with 40 years experience should have been suspicious from the start. a newbe, i would understand, but someone who actually has connections and has been on significant digs?....no..

The testing will tell the final tale. Again, if the bowl contents and hafted wood are as old as I think they are, it will be very unique. It's because of prior digs that I don't rule anything out. For example, I surely wouldn't have thought there would be plenty of bannerstones at this site, and especially one as unique as the one below? Would someone plant this, along with effigies and other really unique artifacts, just to mess with us? I just can't see that happening. You be the judge, what would you be giving up to plant something like this just to play a joke on someone?
View attachment 1414915

View attachment 1414922

View attachment 1414928

View attachment 1414931

 

[monsterrack]

View attachment 1414069

View attachment 1414070

View attachment 1414069

And the other stone tools all came from Target.

Tonykid help me out I'm just a little confused(I'm 64 so give me a break) You put a photo of this bowl in a post back on2/6/17 and it showed the bowl sticking out of a bank or shelf as you called it. It shows the bowl with the soil removed from the side but with a layer of soil still on top of half the bowl and also the soil had been disturb inside the bowl. On a post on 2/7/17 you stated you were going to remove it the next week end. Then on 2/12/17 you posted photos of the bowl in a dig site that the soil had been removed from the top. The top of the bowl is even with the ground level and nothing around it or inside of the bowl has been touched, so help me out on this please. Did you uncover the bowl from the side and then replaced the soil to dig down to the top level ? I'm not trying to be a smart a??, I'm just trying to understand all of this because it's a lot to take in.

 

[bookummdano]

It appears to me that all the dirt has been removed surrounding the bowl and the side of the bowl to the right, slightly grey color is where the side of the bowl was sticking out of the bank and appears lower in elevation. If he dug from the top down which from looking at the Photo above showing the surroundings I do not see any anomalies that would show this is not the same pot and indeed was dug out as stated. The origin and time period (recent or ancient) said pot was lost, buried or thrown away seems to be the only thing I see as a question on the pot.

 

[Jeff H]

That orange banner stone looks like it came out of the machine shop just yesterday. That smaller one could be a keeper, I don't know. But if it was found with that orange thing, I would toss it in the trash.

 

[tonykidd]

Tonykid help me out I'm just a little confused(I'm 64 so give me a break) You put a photo of this bowl in a post back on2/6/17 and it showed the bowl sticking out of a bank or shelf as you called it. It shows the bowl with the soil removed from the side but with a layer of soil still on top of half the bowl and also the soil had been disturb inside the bowl. On a post on 2/7/17 you stated you were going to remove it the next week end. Then on 2/12/17 you posted photos of the bowl in a dig site that the soil had been removed from the top. The top of the bowl is even with the ground level and nothing around it or inside of the bowl has been touched, so help me out on this please. Did you uncover the bowl from the side and then replaced the soil to dig down to the top level ? I'm not trying to be a smart a??, I'm just trying to understand all of this because it's a lot to take in.

Okay, that makes sense. We actually went this past Sunday instead. We could see the rim of the bowl and the legs, and could tell there was something in the bowl that looked like a rock of some sort (turned out there were 3- two in the bowl and one next to the bowl). We decided to "thin-slice" in 1/4"-1/2" lifts in about a 48" area above and around the bowl. We sifted the lifts in case there were smaller artifacts that we couldn't see. In the pictures I provided previously, there was a greenstone celt, a large quartz axe or celt and a large flint knife- all at the same level. If you look at the pictures below, the bowl is below and to the right of the horizontal root. Rain had caused the edge to be covered so it wasn't visible when we arrived. It took us nearly 3 hours to get it completely exposed and use due diligence in making sure nothing got by us. The ground slopes toward the camera a little so the view is slightly oblique. The side views of it standing in place are undisturbed. All of the dirt and organic (if any) contents of the bowl were saved and are going to be tested by Stafford Research Laboratories. In the bowl was a flint scraper, two stones and a broken stone pipe. We loosened the dirt in the bowl for easy removal and to make sure there was nothing hidden in the bottom. We took the dirt out of the bowl in approximately 1" lifts and stored and labeled each in case each portion may have a different content. There is a large pine stump in front of the shovel blade (to the left in the pictures), so we couldn't slice any more in that direction. There is also a large piece of copper being held in place by the root where it disappears back into the ground on the right side. We originally thought it might be a point, but it was just a nugget. I'm doing this from my phone, so it's a pain, but maybe this will help clarify.

View attachment 1415107
View attachment 1415108
View attachment 1415137
View attachment 1415150
View attachment 1415151
View attachment 1415178

 

[11KBP]

You be the judge, what would you be giving up to plant something like this just to play a joke on someone?

“What would you be giving up?” …it just depends on the motive of the one who buried or planted it.

I don’t know if your find is someone’s joke or not as there are other possibilities.

Here is an example that took place at a recent Nebraska artifact show. One of the exhibitors attending the Nebraska show was an individual from Missouri. His story: he was checking out a location where a roadwork excavation was taking place near a creek. He spotted a portion of an insitu blade sticking out of the side of the bank and went home to get his camera so he could record the find which turned out to be an insitu cache of very fine large bifaces. He took a series of pictures during his excavation to record and have a provenience of this great discovery. He then proceeded to show his cache discovery and indisputable images of the recovery to other collectors as well as taking it to an artifact show in Nebraska where it received a great deal attention and praise.

The Nebraska show was not the first time the cache find was shown to others by the Missouri collector. It happened that a collector from Kansas thought he recognized the biface cache from a picture he had taken several years ago of the same or very similar cache which resided in a small museum. Having the idea that this cache might show up at the Nebraska event the Kansas collector located his photo and brought it with him and showed it to the Nebraska show hosts so it could be compared with the so-called recent Missouri cache discovery which was on display at the show. Some of the bifaces had very distinctive unmistakable markings and there was absolutely no denying that the supposed recent discovery matched the pieces which had in the past resided in a small town museum.

What was the Missouri collector’s motive to lie about finding this cache? First of all it apparently was a great ego trip for him and secondly, when it came time to sell the biface cache he knew it would bring good money because of its recorded (albeit fake) provenience.

Unfortunately for him his deception was exposed and needless to say, this Missouri collector’s reputation is shot and the integrity of his entire collection is now highly questionable.

 

[tonykidd]

“What would you be giving up?” …it just depends on the motive of the one who buried or planted it.

I don’t know if your find is someone’s joke or not as there are other possibilities.

Here is an example that took place at a recent Nebraska artifact show. One of the exhibitors attending the Nebraska show was an individual from Missouri. His story: he was checking out a location where a roadwork excavation was taking place near a creek. He spotted a portion of an insitu blade sticking out of the side of the bank and went home to get his camera so he could record the find which turned out to be an insitu cache of very fine large bifaces. He took a series of pictures during his excavation to record and have a provenience of this great discovery. He then proceeded to show his cache discovery and indisputable images of the recovery to other collectors as well as taking it to an artifact show in Nebraska where it received a great deal attention and praise.

The Nebraska show was not the first time the cache find was shown to others by the Missouri collector. It happened that a collector from Kansas thought he recognized the biface cache from a picture he had taken several years ago of the same or very similar cache which resided in a small museum. Having the idea that this cache might show up at the Nebraska event the Kansas collector located his photo and brought it with him and showed it to the Nebraska show hosts so it could be compared with the so-called recent Missouri cache discovery which was on display at the show. Some of the bifaces had very distinctive unmistakable markings and there was absolutely no denying that the supposed recent discovery matched the pieces which had in the past resided in a small town museum.

What was the Missouri collector’s motive to lie about finding this cache? First of all it apparently was a great ego trip for him and secondly, when it came time to sell the biface cache he knew it would bring good money because of its recorded (albeit fake) provenience.

Unfortunately for him his deception was exposed and needless to say, this Missouri collector’s reputation is shot and the integrity of his entire collection is now highly questionable.

I guess there are some screwed up people out there, and each have different motivations. I don't buy, sell or trade artifacts, and never will. I don't attend trade shows, although back in the '80's I did around south Georgia. Every one on this forum could be making everything up, as Brad Paisley so famously wrote:
.."'cause online I'm out in Hollywood
I'm 6'5 and I look damn good
I drive a Maserati
I'm a black belt in Karate
And I love a good glass of wine".

Anyway, very few people put their real name out there on this forum, I've noticed. That may or may not be telling, who knows? My offer stands: if anyone wants to see any of my stuff, hold it, fondle it, take pictures of or with it, or even get my autograph, come see me if you're in north Florida!

 

[newnan man]

Most of these finds from this site look like obvious fakes. You can see the drill bit marks on that banner stone hole. Someone is messing around and is having some fun. Either the poster or someone else. Look at how much attention this stuff is getting. Jeesh, what a waste of time.

 

[Igyjastabay]

Spurious isn't it? I wonder what is going on here? Lol. I think I know.

 

[tonykidd]

You guys figured me out. Please buy all my stuff. Now that the experts have weighed in, I'll sell it all at a bargain price!

 

[coosakid]

I wish somebody would plant some cool ass artifacts around my house... Who knows maybe some Spanish explorers dropped by Alabama after they left Mexico.. Anyways I'm no archeologist but as a native Alabamian I hope its all true