Stonewalled By County Officials - Need Help

[Qlone]

Good evening,

A few weeks ago I was trying to research areas I could go hunt. I ended up on my County website (Chester County PA/Chesco.org) and after wading through the parks and trails/general information/rules and regulation there is a PDF titled "Full Ordinance".

In there under section six witch describes destruction of plants and vegetation, it uses the phrase "except with a permit issued by the department". It uses this phrase for metal detecting. " No person shall, on County real estate: Use a metal detector except with a permit issued by the department"

I called the park I was wanting to hunt and she said she worked there for thirteen years and it has never been permitted and she knew nothing about these permits. After calling around to the treasurer and main park administration, I was advised to contact the Commissioner. Ironically I was a grade below the current Commissioner in school, and was actually in some classes and friends with his brother. I didn't hesitate to mention this when I emailed The commissioner.

Long story shorter, he forwarded my inquiry to another official and then she forwarded me yet again to a third official. This third person..once he saw the lines of text and the wording used, immediately said I should try to ask the park for permission again and if there was any issue ti cite the ordinance from the website. If they still had issue, I should ask them to call this person directly.

I waited a few days and called the park back. Ultimately they just claimed they had no official permit to issue or anything to fill out, and sh would have to talk to her manager and would have to call me back at some point. She asked me when I wanted to hunt and gave me permission to hunt county property that day and said "just go ahead" if I wanted to. I said I would wait for more official confirmations.

The next day I got an email from a fourth official whom I am not sure witch office they are representing. She claimed to have contacted the second person I talked with from the Commissioners office, and that it is something that resides on The Solicitor and or Facilities and parks department. She said they currently have a different policy than what is on the website and do not allow. She said they have plans in motion to amend the ordinance or something.

I emailed her back with some stuff but she never responded. I then emailed the Facilities and Parks Department and they didn't respond so I sent the same email again. Then yesterday I emailed the third official who agreed with me and said I should be aloud. I haven;t heard back from him now either.

My next step will be to call the Park office again and ask who they talked to. Or what was said.

I got those *******s on their wording and they are playing games. What can I do? If anyone wants to contact them about this please do so.
If you want the names or emails of the county employees I was in contact with just ask in the thread with your reply.

There is five hundred acres of fields in the park I'm curious about, Their excuse is disturbance of historical areas blah blah. There wasn't even that many houses directly on the park grounds. I like how its ok though for twenty people a day to come and let their dogs piss and **** everywhere..

Oh well.

 

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[Treasure_Hunter]

Here is what you do.....

STOP EMAILING THEM, STOP CALLING THEM AND GO DETECTING.

Your only hurting yourself and you are encouraging them to reword the rules and laws to include 3 words, "No Metal Detecting."...

 

[Frankn]

Print out the park rule about the permit. Then make an official looking permit. Since no one knows what it is or who to contact to check on it , you got it maid. lol Frank

 

[DonDigger]

I agree with TH. The fact that no one knew what course of action to take means it had never came up. Now the parks department will be talking about the guy that is upsetting the apple cart with all these emails. Low level bureaucrats like their job easy and don't make decisions themselves, so this could wind up being a reworded policy or law just to keep from having to answer questions about a permit process. And when laws do get reworded it usually means more restrictive.

 

[Keppy]

Here is what you do.....

STOP EMAILING THEM, STOP CALLING THEM AND GO DETECTING.

Your only hurting yourself and you are encouraging them to reword the rules and laws to include 3 words, "No Metal Detecting."...

.. TH .. That was what i was going to say but you beat me to it…QLoan why waste your time just go detect the place.. You are putting ideas in there heads…………. That is not good for one's that detect… You could have probably done your detecting by now with out any one bothering you… The only one stonewalling you is you...

 

[BC1969]

I think echo would have sounded better than qlone..who's clone are yah anyway, I get two guesses, but I only need one.

BC

 

[BosnMate]

Apparently it's not a law, it's a rule. Nobody knows what's going on, do a trial run, don't leave any evidence you've been there, and take out all the trash you dig. If approached by a park guy, use the commissioners name, like, "Oh, I'm sorry, I talked to old Joe so and so, and thought it was OK." They aren't going to call the commissioner and ask, because nobody really cares. If you get any flak, it's not a felony, there won't be jail time or property confiscation, and if name dropping doesn't work, just leave. They will only call the police if you argue, don't give them reason to. I always like to say I"m sorry rather than ask. Most of the time, nobody even knows you are there.

 

[justdon]

Last year when i started this hobby i just went out to the county fairgrounds and started detecting.Nobody has ever bothered me a friend of mine that just started detecting said he went on the web site you are supposed to get written permission to metal detect there.I talked to one of the workers there they all know me and he said he has never in 13 years seen any such law enforced.So as i told my friend don't start asking questions because thats when you will start getting negative answers.In other words let slepping dogs lie..

 

[Red James Cash]

Theyre just jerking you around buddy.Its the same as the ole tax stamps for the drug dealers to use that didnt exist.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Great responses so far . Especially don-diggers . He's right : the mere fact that nobody knew what the heck you were talking /asking about tells you they hadn't , nor wouldn't , have paid you any mind . Unless you were being some sort of nuisance , sticking out , etc...

And I don't put much stock in that one pencil pusher's statement that they were looking into changes or whatever . If so , probably only d/t all your "pressing questions" now anyhow.

And I bet that the only reason there is even that buried mention of md'ing you found (that nobody currently knows about ), is that probably 15 or 20+ yrs. ago some well-intentioned md'er went asking permission long ago,& ran into the same thing you're running into now . It's known as the:

"No one cared TILL you asked" psychology .

But now that you've put yourself all over their radar , you're probably screwed now .

 

[BARKER]

HI TOM_IN_CA; Stop shooting yourself (AND US) in the foot. She said go ahead so GO AHEAD.!!! I hunt parks here with the Rangers watching me. The biggest response I have ever gotten is "Hi, Any Luck?" Stop stirring the pot and go digging ok. Have Fun and Post your pictures ok. You have probably done more Research on this matter than ANY Politician in your State in the last 25 years. Stop doing their jobs and go have fun ok. Keep it up and even PROZAC won't help you ok. PEACE:RONB

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Delete. - repeat

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Barker: yes I saw that one of the rungs of the ladder had told him "yes". I too would have run -with -that. Heck , I'd. have never have asked in the first place !

 

[prolab69]

I think it all depends on what kind of county or state land you want to hunt, Ive had the same problem a few years back when i wanted to hunt in my area. There`s 2 separate governmental land depts. you have the state national forest preserve and the national wildlife refuge. one is off limits, while the other isnt, ... and most of those secretaries have no idea what the actual laws are. I did the same thing, i called some lady who had no idea of whats what and she gave me the go-ahead. ... needless to say, they caught me out in the woods flipping over stones at a cellar hole that dated back to the Rev. war. .. I found some great stuff in the short few months that i was able to dodge the officials, but they were not too happy when they caught me. I had the ladys name and number wrote down, so they couldnt do much too me but say never detect in these woods ever again. ... If all your getting is the governmental run around, you can most likely bet its off limits.
Im not telling you what to do, just telling you what to expect. If you do decide to? just make sure you have some ammo to back up your story, Its probably better to drop the name of the secretary then to use your friends name, because if the law in your area prohibits it and you get busted? ... you can expect your friend to get an unpleasant phone call.... good luck

 

[MUD(S.W.A.T)]

If you have written permission from one person, just go detect and bring that paper work with you. Otherwise, leave the site alone find another site, your digging more holes than just detecting...

Keep @ it and HH !!

 

[DFX DAVE in M.D.]

Being that you had permission in the first place go back and detect when that lady is not around, she most likely works 9 to 5, she has to leave sometime.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

. ... If all your getting is the governmental run around, you can most likely bet its off limits......

I disagree . It's quite common indeed to get the "governmental run-around ", when there's no specific rule , nor is it off-limits .

It's known as the: " No one cared TILL you asked " . Ie .: The safe answer cya mentality .

 

[Tom_in_CA]

If you have written permission from one person, just go detect and bring that paper work with you. Otherwise, leave the site alone ......

Mud , It seems to me that asking a governmental bureaucrat to put something in writing is the FASTEST way to get a "no ".

I mean, put yourself in their shoes . That just conjurs up some sort of legal risk etc ... , to be putting contracts in front of them to sign .

 

[BARKER]

Hi TOM_IN_CA; Now your talking.!!
PEACE:RONB

 

[boogeyman]

The first problem is doing anything via email. It's a pain, but they have a hard time brushing you off if you're standing in front of them at the counter or their desk. Before going to the office of whoever said yes, have in hand a document you've made stating you have permission to search, so all they need to do is sign & date it. The first person you're going to talk to is basically a flunky. Keep going up the ladder by asking to talk to their supervisor and their supervisor until you get to someone with the REAL authority. More times than not they'll give you permission just to get you out of their hair and not just a flat out no since they really don't know if no is the correct answer. Took me years to see that you get further by being in front of them than on the phone or emailing. Hope this helps you a little!