sunken treasure in "spain" what do you all think? do we have the right?

[benny42]

sunken treasure in "spain" what do you all think? do we have the right?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110524/ap_on_re_us/us_shipwreck_treasure

 

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[Dig-it-all]

Re: sunken treasure in "spain" what do you all think? do we have the right?

well after reading the article it seems the decision of wether it was a warship or a merchant ship will decide who is entitled to the treasure. I think the ship was a warship with its cannons, but i think on this particular voyage it was acting as a merchant ship because of the cargo it was carrying. If it was not for odessey locating, catagorizing, and preserving this ship i dont spain would've ever known it was even there. As far as peru saying that the coins were minted in peru and want part of the bounty i'd say forget it. They might have minted the coins but thats it they have no llegal right to get it back. Everytime scientists and explorers find something of monetary value it seems like people come out of the woodwork and want a peice. In my opinion if it is a merchant ship i think it is finders keepers especially if it is in international waters.

 

[eckstar]

Re: sunken treasure in "spain" what do you all think? do we have the right?

Maritime salvage laws apply here. If the original owner of the property cannot be identified, It belongs to the salvors.

 

[JW15]

Re: sunken treasure in "spain" what do you all think? do we have the right?

If this is a merchant ship and not a warship then I'd say it's all yours. Also, with Peru trying to lay claim as well this does indeed appear to be about the money as one attorney pointed out. As far as being called 21st century pirates is concerned that's just too funny considering Spain is the one who seized a vessel and took it's crew captive!

 

[Curious The George]

Re: sunken treasure in "spain" what do you all think? do we have the right?

I don't see how if there is a bunch of descendants of merchants trying to lay claim to the cargo it was carrying that anyone could state it is not a merchant ship.

 

[FloridaHunter]

Re: sunken treasure in "spain" what do you all think? do we have the right?

If the ship was found on the moon, Spain would still claim it.

 

[BarberDan]

Re: sunken treasure in "spain" what do you all think? do we have the right?

I say if Spain wins....then the treasure hunters should be allowed 48hrs to dump the contents back into the ocean at an undisclosed location and allow Spain the opportunity to find it.

 

[Silver Searcher]

Re: sunken treasure in "spain" what do you all think? do we have the right?



Why can't they just split it..50/50 everybody wins

SS

 

[treasurepirate1]

Re: sunken treasure in "spain" what do you all think? do we have the right?

i remember watching this on t.v a couple months back and in awe of all of those buckets stuffed with gold and silver Spanish 1700s coins, i would do anything just to be there and see it all. but getting to my opinion, i see people on this very forum dig up Spanish silver coins all the time, but you never hear from Spain trying to take %10 %20 %50 of the coin they just dug. that would be ridiculous, but in mass quantity is a bit different and would make sense to give %10 to Spain because of historical and generous reasons. treasure hunters should be people that want to to share history and add to the enjoyment of many people that would love to see and learn about, just keeping it all would give a bad image to treasure hunters, treasure hunting would develop a pirate image other than what it really should be, a historical preservers and researchers adding to everyones enjoyment and knowledge.

 

[HISPAN]

Re: sunken treasure in "spain" what do you all think? do we have the right?

do not believe in the righteousness of USA ?




H

 

[capt dom]

Re: sunken treasure in "spain" what do you all think? do we have the right?

Back in the days of old.... in the open seas, it is the same as today.

Only slime ball attorneys.... the true black pirates {setting aside the boys in Somali} of the
21st century would have you think different......
This Mr. Gould would not spend a day in court defending Spain's position
if he wasn't being handsomely paid.... but back to my point.

Any prudent mariner plying the open seas worth his salt is armed.....
Then and now..... Having weapons aboard does not make it a vessel of war
of on official business of a "state".... even if they are cannons.....

Come near one of my vessels, that I may be in command with some malarious intentions on the
open seas and see what happens....

home defense.... even at sea.

It is all about the money like the Judge said folks...
the war graves argument is bullship
argued by folks who have never been to war
except in a court room....

 

[Salvor6]

Re: sunken treasure in "spain" what do you all think? do we have the right?

Uh oh. I hope Ossy and architecad don't see this thread.

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Re: sunken treasure in "spain" what do you all think? do we have the right?

i remember watching this on t.v a couple months back and in awe of all of those buckets stuffed with gold and silver Spanish 1700s coins, i would do anything just to be there and see it all. but getting to my opinion, i see people on this very forum dig up Spanish silver coins all the time, but you never hear from Spain trying to take %10 %20 %50 of the coin they just dug. that would be ridiculous, but in mass quantity is a bit different and would make sense to give %10 to Spain because of historical and generous reasons. treasure hunters should be people that want to to share history and add to the enjoyment of many people that would love to see and learn about, just keeping it all would give a bad image to treasure hunters, treasure hunting would develop a pirate image other than what it really should be, a historical preservers and researchers adding to everyones enjoyment and knowledge.

Wise words

 

[MORE AND BEYOND OSSY]

Re: sunken treasure in "spain" what do you all think? do we have the right?

Uh oh. I hope Ossy and architecad don't see this thread.

To Late
Did I say USA rules the World, Sorry Spain does, We are World Champions

 

[HISPAN]

Re: sunken treasure in "spain" what do you all think? do we have the right?

The government of Spain would not claim anything if not for the U.S.A judge issued a ruling .
Do not confuse the current corrupt government of Spain, with the opinion of Spanish citizens, one of its best allies in the world .
H

 

[timbobwey]

Re: sunken treasure in "spain" what do you all think? do we have the right?

I agree with silver searcher, split it down the middle. Both sides will have half of the treasure, it seems fair that way.

 

[JW15]

Re: sunken treasure in "spain" what do you all think? do we have the right?

well after reading the article it seems the decision of wether it was a warship or a merchant ship will decide who is entitled to the treasure. I think the ship was a warship with its cannons, but i think on this particular voyage it was acting as a merchant ship because of the cargo it was carrying. If it was not for odessey locating, catagorizing, and preserving this ship i dont spain would've ever known it was even there. As far as peru saying that the coins were minted in peru and want part of the bounty i'd say forget it. They might have minted the coins but thats it they have no llegal right to get it back. Everytime scientists and explorers find something of monetary value it seems like people come out of the woodwork and want a peice. In my opinion if it is a merchant ship i think it is finders keepers especially if it is in international waters.

Well said, I was about to revise my post and say that it would appear that Spain used a warship to disguise merchant operations and make an enemy think twice before attacking. Also, it would appear that in 1804 Spain made a common practice of using Frigates(warships) to haul treasure and precious cargo. Therefore, it's difficult to call this a "warship" at the time of conducting merchant activities. Frigates were known for being fast and maneuverable war ships, I doubt they would have been weighed down with treasure under normal offensive operations. You could almost call it a heavily armed merchant vessel when it was sunk as Spain clearly used frigates for dual purposes...Here's an example~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Action_of_5_October_1804 For the record, God rest the souls of the men who served on that ship who never saw home again.

 

[JW15]

Re: sunken treasure in "spain" what do you all think? do we have the right?

The government of Spain would not claim anything if not for the U.S.A judge issued a ruling .
Do not confuse the current corrupt government of Spain, with the opinion of Spanish citizens, one of its best allies in the world .
H

I you for such an honest and intelligent response! Ive met a few people from Spain who have told me the same.

 

[Au_Dreamers]

Re: sunken treasure in "spain" what do you all think? do we have the right?

The records clearly show all 4 ships were carrying paid freight and paid passengers. The Mercedes was retrofitted to accommodate paying passengers. Cannon were removed to supply room and capacity.

Spain cried to the world it was an act of piracy on a merchant vessel carrying private citizens of Spain and private cargo.

Spain claimed no responsibility to the citizens claims of losses of the cargo and shifted the responsibility of compensation to Great Britain…hmmmm Records show that G.B. PAID on claims of those private citizens.

G.B. has a more legal claim to split with O.M. than Spain

There is no proof of a shipwreck nor Spanish shipwreck let alone identification of the wreck as the Mercedes. The coins found by OM were a worldwide currency, they can only testify to a date range of when they went into the ocean.

 

[Diggincoinz]

Re: sunken treasure in "spain" what do you all think? do we have the right?

I think they're all just trying to get a piece of it. They didn't have any interest in it b4 it was recovered. If they want to claim it then why didn't they go and find it for themselves? Now it's just easy pickens for them.

The salvagers have done all the work to find and recover it. Doesn't that speak for itself? Finders keepers is my opinion but unfortunately it's not that simple.