✅ SOLVED Test your skills on this one! Spent years trying to ID this.

[musclecar]

I found this in Alaska about 10 years ago, and have never been able to ID it. It is an aluminum piece, about 3 inches square. It has 15 teeth and is numbered 1-15. There is a stop preventing it from spinning freely. The back has two tabs that may have been used to mount it. ANY GUESSES?

Thanks,

MC

PS The quarter used for size was found yesterday! 1935S Yeah!

 

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[Mona Lisa]

It certainly looks like it. Look at the drawing.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=_S9hAAAAEBAJ&dq=camera

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Capillary Thermostat.

The two “hooks” on the backside is where the capillary tube was secured, and then ran to the bulb inside of the refrigeration unit (refrigerator, wine cooler, walk-in cooler, etc)

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why did you have to ruin it all?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

SWR, I see no way where this could attach to an electric themostat . Do you?

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

why did you have to ruin it all?

Somebody mentioned money ($50). I did it for the money.

Piggy is offering $50 to solve the piggnuts.

The guy that guessed Gonjji stones is upset and still waiting for his money.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

SWR, I see no way where this could attach to an electric themostat . Do you?

Sure. I see empty holes and a broken tab. Capillary Thermostats are not basically electric, but do control contacts that control electrical components

I know. I am HVAC /ref. tech. But the underside of the dial must connect to the electronics, and I see no shaft nor anyway to connect to a shaft.



You have a huge screen.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

SWR, I see no way where this could attach to an electric themostat . Do you?

Sure. I see empty holes and a broken tab. Capillary Thermostats are not basically electric, but do control contacts that control electrical components

I know. I am HVAC /ref. tech. But the underside of the dial must connect to the electronics, and I see no shaft nor anyway to connect to a shaft.



You have a huge screen.

The item in question is a broken-off piece of _______ (fill in blank). Of course you are not going to see everything. The underside of the dial (in theory) would press up against a flexable piece of metal....that would in turn control the relay. The dial does not control the electronics, but the "flex" in the metal that presses up against the contact/relay.

It has to connect. I have never seen a control without a shaft to turn. The numbered dial must make some kind of good connection to the electric contol/relay shaft. It cannot just be just pressed up against it smooth without something interlocking.
Only musclecar can tell us if its broken. It doesnt look broken at the "shaft" end. Go back and look at the pics-- it looks like its just a rivet.


Good thought on the capillary attachment, but I say camera film counter.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The expanding/contracting capillary reservoir is what controls the contacts/relays...not the dial. The dial only controls the positioning of the reservoir (closer or farther to the contact/relay. I know that I mention refrigeration...but, capillary thermostats are also used in heating (cooking, water heaters, steamers, etc) as well.

In this case BOTH. The dial controls the adjustment (colder or warmer) just like the potentiometer on a metal detector. Sure you can have an expanding/contracting gas filled capillary to control the relay without a dial control, it would be either on or off. But in this case we have a numbered dial (like all refridges) for a better range of adjustment. (30 years in the business) A gas filled cappillary turns the relay on/off at a factory set temperature/pressure. The dial gives the refridgerator owner a choice of temperature settings. I dont know how else to explain it. We have a 1-15 numbered dial and for this theory to sound it must connect.

BTW glad to hear from you SWR. I wish we could have another Sebastian cookout.

 

[eldonsmith]

Typically, a capilliary thermostat has a fine tube closed at one end - the business end. This is placed against the surface which could be a boiler or a refridgeration plate. The other end is coincident with the control and by varying the internal pressure causes a switch to turn off/on the power to the heating/cooling
I've never seen one where the control is a) on the same surface as the the sensor (ouch) or b) that has no connection to the other end of the capilliary.

The film sprocket thing sounds good, but in the later image posted, you can see that it is a simple flat wheel directly screwed to the body rather than pop riveted to a crude mounting plate. The quality just seems wrong to me.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Typically, a capilliary thermostat has a fine tube closed at one end - the business end. This is placed against the surface which could be a boiler or a refridgeration plate. The other end is coincident with the control and by varying the internal pressure causes a switch to turn off/on the power to the heating/cooling
I've never seen one where the control is a) on the same surface as the the sensor (ouch) or b) that has no connection to the other end of the capilliary.

The film sprocket thing sounds good, but in the later image posted, you can see that it is a simple flat wheel directly screwed to the body rather than pop riveted to a crude mounting plate. The quality just seems wrong to me.

The last picture posted of the camera is not exactly the same, but the same idea. The sprockets fit the holes in the film to initually hand wind and rewind. This also is an older version.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

The expanding/contracting capillary reservoir is what controls the contacts/relays...not the dial. The dial only controls the positioning of the reservoir (closer or farther to the contact/relay. I know that I mention refrigeration...but, capillary thermostats are also used in heating (cooking, water heaters, steamers, etc) as well.

In this case BOTH. The dial controls the adjustment (colder or warmer) just like the potentiometer on a metal detector. Sure you can have an expanding/contracting gas filled capillary to control the relay without a dial control, it would be either on or off. But in this case we have a numbered dial (like all refridges) for a better range of adjustment. (30 years in the business) A gas filled cappillary turns the relay on/off at a factory set temperature/pressure. The dial gives the refridgerator owner a choice of temperature settings. I dont know how else to explain it.

BTW glad to hear from you SWR. I wish we could have another Sebastian cookout.

Yeah...nice meeting you @ Sebastian

Not all capillary thermostats are factory preset. The dial controls the "trip" mechanism of the "flex" metal strip or reservoir. With the capability of 15 (or 14) it would be more applicable for heating than refrigeration (water heater, steamer, commercial dishwater) and not readily accessible.

I dont see how this dial could connect to a flex metal strip and I dont follow you on the reservoir.

 

[eldonsmith]

Chaps
The thing that's bugging me is the "dial controlling.." part. I cannot see how, unless the stop at 15 somehow interacted with something??

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Chaps
The thing that's bugging me is the "dial controlling.." part. I cannot see how, unless the stop at 15 somehow interacted with something??

I cant see how it could interact either.

On the camera theory, the legs of the gear insert into the slots of the film to advance and rewind.

 

[eldonsmith]

Sorry I wasn't clear on that. I understand the film thing - just been trying to find some details on 120 film perf pitch.

My question about control was in connection with the thermostat suggestion. Wonder if that stop was longer?

Back to the film thing. I have no camera experience, but everything I've seen seems to be well made even on budget cameras. Does anyone else think that the quality of this isn't up to what you'd expect in a camera? It appears overly complex (frame, rivet, many mounting holes but no threads, clips, pointers) but too low in quality. The line drawing of the camera is the way I'd do it - a wheel and a screw into the case.

BTW ISO 732 covers 120 film dimensions and theres some info on perfs at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Film_perforations

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

My question about control was in connection with the thermostat suggestion. Wonder if that stop was longer?

I follow you now. The quality looks fine to me (better than todays plastics) The stop was made at the factory by bending up the piece so I doubt it was longer. I dont think that could connect to a capillary type control. It makes more sense to connect at the shaft. It may possibly connect to an adjustible cold air vent in theory but its kinda short.

 

[Peerless67]

I wish someone had some old 120 film that could post the distance between notches and musclecar could see if it fits.

I believe you Peerless but I have heard other members say they were 100 percent sure before. We really do need a pic or link. Great diagram. BTW.

BSH, I get your thinking but the distance between the holes is much greater than the distance between the teeth.
The holes on the film which was 72 inches in length and only took 11-13 pictures were spaced, to indicate that you had moved to a blank piece of film.
If the holes were spaced at the same distance as the teeth you would only have a piece of film a few inches in length.
So as the film passed over the teeth, the teeth would pick up the hole and advance the number in the peep hole/window. So the owner could now test this even with a modern film, or even piece of card with holes in it.
The film was also made of some unstable material and was paper backed for some reason, when they changed the material used to make film they were able to remove the need for the paper backing, and so cameras were able to hold rolls that could take greater numbers of pictures, because they could now fit 2 times as much film in the same space.
The picture that someone kindly posted is in a newer type camera but almost perfectly shows how the one I took apart worked. Although I would guess mine predated the 1950s considerably.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I wish someone had some old 120 film that could post the distance between notches and musclecar could see if it fits.

I believe you Peerless but I have heard other members say they were 100 percent sure before. We really do need a pic or link. Great diagram. BTW.

BSH, I get your thinking but the distance between the holes is much greater than the distance between the teeth.
The holes on the film which was 72 inches in length and only took 11-13 pictures were spaced, to indicate that you had moved to a blank piece of film.
If the holes were spaced at the same distance as the teeth you would only have a piece of film a few inches in length.
So as the film passed over the teeth, the teeth would pick up the hole and advance the number in the peep hole/window. So the owner could now test this even with a modern film, or even piece of card with holes in it.
The film was also made of some unstable material and was paper backed for some reason, when they changed the material used to make film they were able to remove the need for the paper backing, and so cameras were able to hold rolls that could take greater numbers of pictures, because they could now fit 2 times as much film in the same space.
The picture that someone kindly posted is in a newer type camera but almost perfectly shows how the one I took apart worked. Although I would guess mine predated the 1950s considerably.

That is what I meant lol. To make a pattern of the film and physically try it. 8) I dont know if it would prove anything but Im with you.

Maybe 35mm is the same hole spacing?

Nothing short of an exact pic, Im afraid, will mark this one solved.

 

[Peerless67]

35 mm film would have smaller/shorter spacing, that is still not important, the main interest is in the teeth advancing the number. You could have a piece of film a mile long, but if it only had 14 holes in it, it would only advance 14 times.

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

35 mm film would have smaller/shorter spacing, that is still not important, the main interest is in the teeth advancing the number. You could have a piece of film a mile long, but if it only had 14 holes in it, it would only advance 14 times.

OK I follow you. But would it fit? If it doesnt fit, we must acquit.

The question that I proposed was will 120 film fit the sprockets properly?

 

[6.5winmag]

perhaps a round counter for the old 15 round pro fights

 

[eldonsmith]

A friend of mine - keen photographer - sent me this in response to my question regarding the perforations on camera film.

"Well, I can Definitely tell you it's not 120 (or 220)roll film 'cos it definitely doesn't have perforations, I've got some here to look at. Also, the number of frames on a 120 roll depends on the format the camera is using e.g. 6cm x 6cm has 12 frames per roll"

Of course that doesn't mean it isn't a film frame counter, just narrows the possibilities down when looking for a possible candidate.