✅ SOLVED Test your skills on this one! Spent years trying to ID this.

[musclecar]

I found this in Alaska about 10 years ago, and have never been able to ID it. It is an aluminum piece, about 3 inches square. It has 15 teeth and is numbered 1-15. There is a stop preventing it from spinning freely. The back has two tabs that may have been used to mount it. ANY GUESSES?

Thanks,

MC

PS The quarter used for size was found yesterday! 1935S Yeah!

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I first got excited about the belt idea but I will have to conclude that what we have does not properly fit on a standard pants belt. The tabs underneath do not even look as if they were ever bent. Now maybe a much wider belt. Its also possible that a belt clip has broken off.

If it were to go on a belt, the finger advancement positioned on top would be OK but the numbers would be read sideways.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Here's a link that briefly explains what an "out keeper" is/does ...

The specific reference to the out keeper is in paragraph 8 (starting the count under the Bruce Taylor) and is the paragraph that starts with > The faces of most American compasses ...

SBB

http://www.eppraisals.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=appraisal.certificate&act=form&item_id=63618

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Here's another link regarding an "Out Keeper."

The only problem is, it's a full manual with about a jillion pages!

I couldn't find the reference, but if someone among us is a speed reader, have at it!



SBB

http://www.archive.org/stream/cu31924004585588/cu31924004585588_djvu.txt

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Here's the text that led me to the last link ...

I post it here on a new page because I don't want to risk losing it again.

Please notice the mention of ... "Underground Surveying."

(I found it on page 9 after Googling the exact words ... "Surveying Out Keeper")

~ * ~

Full text of "A manual of underground surveying"
They repre- sent best surveying practice, and fulfill the purpose as an object
..... The instrument had an out-keeper for tallying the outs of the chain, ...
http://www.archive.org/stream/cu31924004585588/cu31924004585588_djvu.txt - 450k -

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

The 2nd quote below refers to the brass "Tallies," or "Outs" shown on the image of the 1800s surveying chain. (The 1st quote is from the link I posted earlier). "Tallies" are those weird looking tags with the "teeth" on them. If you're confused, that's okay, because so am I. Maybe these tally tags are the counting things that Sapphire Miner was referring to.

Each "point/notch" on the tally indicates ten feet. For example, the one on the right would be the forty foot mark. But I sure would like to find a photo of one of those "Out Keeper" devices ... especially considering the fact it is referred to as a "Dial."

~ * ~

"The face of most English compasses reads clockwise. Some compasses are equipped with an out keeper, a dial that helps a surveyor keep track of the number of times the chain has been run (these are known as outs). Some have a dial that converts outs to poles (a pole, also known as a rod or a perch, is equal to 5.5 yards)."


~ * ~

"Tallies - The tallies are of brass, and have one, two, three or four notches, as they mark ten, twenty, thirty or forty links from either end. The fiftieth (50th) link is marked by a rounded tally to distinguish it from the others."

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I just heard back from the surveying expert who has been extremely helpful in this endeavour. And although I have not mentioned to him yet about the TreasureNet connection, I did thank him a million times over for his help. His name is Robert and seems like a really cool guy. However, this thing still isn't solved yet! Following are his exact words from his message, but I think he assumes I/we already know what we are looking for, as he said there are many of the "out keepers" show in the photos connected with the following link. But I have already looked at many of them, but couldn't find a single text reference to what he calls an "out keeper." But I'm sure there must be one shown somewhere. So this is open to anyone who wishes to participate, and we'll see who can be the first to find an actual photo of one of those so called "Out Keeper Dials." (And please post it if/when you do ... thanks & good luck!)

(After opening the link, see if any of you recognize the site? I do!)

Robert's exact words ...

Bob

"Go to this link and look at the compasses. Many of them have out keepers. But I have never seen a seperate one that wasn't attached to a compass."

Link ...

http://www.surveyhistory.org/compass maker directory.htm

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Long list.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I'm guessing it's the little dial on the right shown in this photo of a A.S. Aloe Co. compass.

(Be sure to click on the individual photos to enlarge them).



SBB

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I also found this ...

(Which is about how I feel at the moment).

But I'm not complaining ... I enjoy all of this research stuff.

 

[Kieth-Tx]

Well...I know one thing. I sure could use one of them....for my golf game!!!!

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

Here's an entire surveyor's kit by "Knox & Shain"

It shows the chains and everything, including our little "dial buddy"

Out Keeper

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

You can imagine my excitement when this image jumped on the screen!

However, our eyes have a way of playing tricks on us.

I'm including the link so you can check this out for yourselves, but it's actually a surveyor's measuring tape, with a diameter of about sixteen inches ... I think

SO"IDON'TKNOW"BOB

http://www.surveyhistory.org/paines_surveyor's_measure_&_tackle_case.htm

 

[musclecar]

I am the bonehead who found this thing. Wow, I am surprised to see this thing is still a hot topic! I had to disconnect my internet for a while, so I haven't been able to keep tabs on it after Goodyguy bought it from me. He has done a phenomenal job describing and researching it. Now that Bigcypresshunter has it, I am confident that it will be solved. The more involved, the better the chances. Just one suggestion: Early on, someone suggested Jay Leno. I think that if it were sent to him, not only would it get national attention (not for glory, but to solve it once and for all, maybe), it would give treasurenet a free plug.

Glad to be back, MC

 

[trikikiwi]

I am the bonehead who found this thing. Wow, I am surprised to see this thing is still a hot topic! I had to disconnect my internet for a while, so I haven't been able to keep tabs on it after Goodyguy bought it from me. He has done a phenomenal job describing and researching it. Now that Bigcypresshunter has it, I am confident that it will be solved. The more involved, the better the chances. Just one suggestion: Early on, someone suggested Jay Leno. I think that if it were sent to him, not only would it get national attention (not for glory, but to solve it once and for all, maybe), it would give treasurenet a free plug.

Glad to be back, MC

Good to see the ......... who started this, again
It is still interesting
My offer remains as firm as ever
My initial pledge is in #147
Mike

 

[Goodyguy]

Welcome Back Musclecar!

With BigCy helping we are sure to get this thing solved!
If not then maybe you and I will do the talk show circuit......LOL
I always wanted to meet Leno.

GG~

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Now that Bigcypresshunter has it, I am confident that it will be solved.

Thanks for the vote of confidence but I am not so sure. Im afraid something is broken off.

 

[kyphote]

Has there been consensus around the general age of this item?

 

[Goodyguy]

Has there been consensus around the general age of this item?

According to Musclecar It was found In 1996 on an old homestead (circa 1950's) in a treed area by the river, in Soldotna, Alaska. It was about 2 inches deep.

Since it is made from aluminum and up until 1859 aluminum was more valuable than gold, I'm guessing it probably wasn't even manufactured until after 1915 or so when the price of aluminum came down to $40.00 a Kilo, due to a breakthrough in manufacturing.

GG~

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I realize the Surveying topic is passe, but I wanted to clairfy the question mark that was hanging over the previous discussion regarding exactly what an "outkeeper" is. The text and photo below should answer this once and for all.

Also, it may be of interest to note that the term "out" refers to the number of times the chain was pulled "out" to it's maximum length. For example; If the surveying crew was using a standard fifty-foot chain, then each time it was stretched to it's max would count as one "out," or "fifty feet." Thus, the compass guy would turn the little outkeeper dial to the number 1. And when they were done, let's say the outkeeper dial was on the number 9. This would then calculate to ... 50 ft. X 9 = 450 ft.

And for anyone captivated by all this survey chat, here's a great link to assist you.

http://americanhistory.si.edu/collections/surveying/index.htm

Anyway, that's all I have to say on the survey aspect, and will now focus elsewhere.

Thanks,

SBB

~ * ~

(Text that came with photo)

The basic instrument is a standard, small compass, with a north-south level on the north arm, and an east-west level and an outkeeper on the south arm. The hand-engraved signature indicates that the compass was made before the middle of 1876. The telescope, which attaches to one of the sight vanes, was presumably made shortly before the patent application was submitted in June 1878.

 

[SODABOTTLEBOB]

I am making this post because I have just this morning invited several family members to join the "club" in helping to identify this unsolved mystery. Thus moving it to the top of the "What Is It?" list where they can more easily find it. A couple of my family members currently live in Alaska, which may or may not shed some new light on this topic. We'll see?

Thanks for your understanding and support.

SODABOTTLEBOB