The Answer Rest Here

[ECS]

“I recommended to Mr. Hall, Mr. Campbell, Mr. Sherman, and those of Bolivar to keep to our promise and distribute the gold to the indicated places....
Mr. Sherman, WAS, Mathew “Mexico” Sherman, the uncle of John Sherman, the job print's editor and J. B. Ward's cousin, the pamphlet's acting representative...
Now, I don't know about you, but this establishes pretty darn strong actual connection to the story in the Beale pamphlet, and to Ward...

That would be so if it was "Mexico", and not Dana Sherman, son of Micah Sherman and brother of General Sidney Sherman.
Dana Sherman knew both Captain James Campbell and Jean Lafitte.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Sounds appropriate.
We could start an additional fire so's not to corrupt the cookin fire an burn some of this rubbish and dead brush from sickle barrin the ol pasture site lyin a-round.
This'n hy'ar ol box the lock fell off'n has a passel of musty ol papers and setch in it to git shed a too....

"MUSTY ol PAPERS...? Does "Justin" know...?

 

[ECS]

“I recommended to Mr. Hall, Mr. Campbell, Mr. Sherman, and those of Bolivar to keep to our promise and distribute the gold to the indicated places.” This was in the spring of 1821, several months in advance of the last Beale Deposit.
... this establishes pretty darn strong actual connection to the story in the Beale pamphlet...

What Lafitte's "Memoirs" and the Beale Papers have in common is that with Lafitte it has not been confirmed as authentic or as a forgery and the Beale has never ben confirmed as a real event or a dime novel story.
https://almostchosenpeople.wordpress.com/2010/03/10/jean-lafitte-and-his-memoirs/

 

[bigscoop]

That would be so if it was "Mexico", and not Dana Sherman, son of Micah Sherman and brother of General Sidney Sherman.
Dana Sherman knew both Captain James Campbell and Jean Lafitte.

Keep digging.

 

[bigscoop]

I'm pretty certain that the author of the pamphlet not only arranged interview with Morriss but also Thomas J. Beale as well, in "Richmond." Now before you ask me why I'm drawing aim on this possibility sit back and think about it first.

 

[ECS]

Still, you keep going outside of the story to prove that the Beale story is real, when we both realize that it is a story with NO solid documented evidence of any actual event to confirm that story.

 

[bigscoop]

Still, you keep going outside of the story to prove that the Beale story is real, when we both realize that it is a story with NO solid documented evidence of any actual event to confirm that story.

Ah....but Grasshopper......what if there is that documentation? The problem is that nobody seems to want to draw a clear line of focus to research, their efforts always jumping from here to there before they ever give a single focus a fair opportunity. Internet resources typically provide only "generalized" information and much of this can be biased or opinionated solely dependent on the avenues of research taken and the sources researched by those providing the information. And, believe it or not, there are mountains of valuable resources and research materials that can't be accessed via the internet. So what makes you so certain that the desired documentation isn't out there? Is this just because "you" have not seen it?

You keep insisting that the story "must" either be true as presented or that it "must" be a simple work of fiction for parlor entertainment only. Stop and think about what you are really suggesting, take strong notice of how you only allow for complete fabrication but absolutely no partial fabrication. Can you explain this, how someone can allow for complete fabrication but not partial fabrication? Do you have some means of secret documentation that concludes both of your summations to be the only allowed options for solution? For that matter, do have some means of top secret documentation that concludes that the story was based on the Risque family bloodline? Was this printed in the secret Beale Pamphlet directions somewhere? Seems to me like the pot is always calling the kettle black.

"Let us not completely dismiss those mysterious things that we do not yet understand."

 

[bigscoop]

There is one other thing that I want to point out......you keep debated only those points that you believe provide you distinct leverage. So let's look at some other issues that have been discussed so you can explain these away.

"Unintelligible"...."piece of paper".....what is the definition of both? When we clear out the rest of the story then what was the author without? We see the subject of the key being debated a lot, and yet the author already claims to have discovered that. We see the subject of the ciphers being debated a lot, and yet the author already claims that he has those. So what was the vital piece to the puzzle that the author claims he was still without?

"Unintelligible", would not represent an intelligible writing, such as a book, document, etc., etc., etc. So if our author already had the key and the ciphers then what else might he still require? This is why the pamphlet was really produced in such a small geographical location, this is also why there was reference to Ward as being the contact representative in the event that someone with knowledge of the described events and that vital piece of paper came forward. Your author clearly tells you this.

And by the way, since I touched on the subject of the key, in this case the DOI, is it not also in regards to, "Liberty?" I believe Laffite to referred to it as, "that most sacred document of them all." Let's see, Liberty/Texas, Liberty/Bedford, the DOI, "the flame that is worth the candle......", the liberation of Mexico which at the time included the exact a portion of Colorado described in the story, this again, being part of the Adams Onis Treaty that was also about establishing important borders of liberty.

 

[bigscoop]

ECS.....Another “checkmate” for you.

Your summation is predicated upon the theory that all of the details and events in Beale Papers were fabricated around certain people and events within the Risque bloodline. So let us accept your theory as being fact.


Now then, in my theory I offer you two recorded shipments of wealth, the first, at least, providing enough detail to match the value of that first Beale deposit. Also, we know that my two sources of wealth fall in perfect chronological order with the two described Beale deposits.


So, and applying your same sense of logic and reason in regards to your theory, allow me to ask, “How did your author know about these two shipments of wealth when they weren't made public until the 1940's, some 60 years after the pamphlet was published?”


Ooopsie! In this scenario, and by way of your own sense of reason and applied logic, then someone within the Risque bloodline had knowledge of the two sources of wealth in my theory. How do you explain this?


And if you think I'm just “fitting” events into the Beale story then I can live with that because this is exactly what you claim your author was doing with several other various forms of “recorded” events. So how did he know about my two sources of wealth in 1885? Clearly the dates are an exact match as is the general value of at least the first deposit amount.


This is called working yourself into a conundrum, of sorts, which you clearly have. "checkmate!"

 

[Eldo]

Your babbling extrapolation is the foundation of nothing new.....nor is the sympathy you use to derive the attention to the diversion from the clear proof you are still looking for yourself.

Tons of history, not a single coin to show the way to the vault of the Papers

So why add so much commentary and new posts and topics?

Merely to drive up your numbers and drive down our posts......

you filled the site with another diversion and tactic and I think you should move out of the Beale Papers section into your own blog or at least not use the Beale as your subject heading.

This is nothing but a Mind Shift you have been using for at least a few weeks, and a tactic used by the Mainstream to detract from the actual research occurring here.

Good job making the zenith we created into absolutely nothing of value.

BTW we still dropped the Confederate flag and we are dropping this type of speculation as quickly

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Your babbling extrapolation is the foundation of nothing new.....nor is the sympathy you use to derive the attention to the diversion from the clear proof you are still looking for yourself.

Tons of history, not a single coin to show the way to the vault of the Papers

So why add so much commentary and new posts and topics?

Merely to drive up your numbers and drive down our posts......

you filled the site with another diversion and tactic and I think you should move out of the Beale Papers section into your own blog or at least not use the Beale as your subject heading.

This is nothing but a Mind Shift you have been using for at least a few weeks, and a tactic used by the Mainstream to detract from the actual research occurring here.

Good job making the zenith we created into absolutely nothing of value.

BTW we still dropped the Confederate flag and we are dropping this type of speculation as quickly

"CONFEDERATE WAR" is STILL in the Beale PAPERS... AND! R & I is STILL on-going. BTW, Not ALL REBEL flags have been dropped... NEVER WILL! PS, PV believed it... so do I!

 

[ECS]

...

BTW we still dropped the Confederate flag and we are dropping this type of speculation as quickly

Marion county Florida government complex is still flying the CSA 3rd National Flag, remember it was the citizens of Ocala during May 1865 that aided Benjamin, Breckinridge, and Wood in their escape from the Union.

 

[bigscoop]

Your babbling extrapolation is the foundation of nothing new.....nor is the sympathy you use to derive the attention to the diversion from the clear proof you are still looking for yourself.

Tons of history, not a single coin to show the way to the vault of the Papers

So why add so much commentary and new posts and topics?

Merely to drive up your numbers and drive down our posts......

you filled the site with another diversion and tactic and I think you should move out of the Beale Papers section into your own blog or at least not use the Beale as your subject heading.

This is nothing but a Mind Shift you have been using for at least a few weeks, and a tactic used by the Mainstream to detract from the actual research occurring here.

Good job making the zenith we created into absolutely nothing of value.

BTW we still dropped the Confederate flag and we are dropping this type of speculation as quickly

Yadda-Yadda-Yadda. So did you ever find anything to establish the authenticity of that Peralta stone? I never did hear back from you on this. You just sort of dropped out of site after being faced with that challenge. But I do understand your growing frustration in light of the hard evidence and real research before you. Sorta cans that HUGE conspiracy theory you've been trying to sell, don't it.

 

[ECS]

...
Now then, in my theory I offer you two recorded shipments of wealth, the first, at least, providing enough detail to match the value of that first Beale deposit. Also, we know that my two sources of wealth fall in perfect chronological order with the two described Beale deposits.

So, and applying your same sense of logic and reason in regards to your theory, allow me to ask, “How did your author know about these two shipments of wealth when they weren't made public until the 1940's, some 60 years after the pamphlet was published?”...

Not exactly the same dates for the two deposits, and if one tries, other dates of other events can be found that could be made to look as a match.
Once again you refer to the Memoirs of Jean Lafitte, which has never been established as an authentic journal of Lafitte-and while it was written with old ink and on old paper, also containing newspaper clippings as if it were a scrapbook, it well could have been written after 1885- a forgery.
What is your opinion of Lafitte's remarks about Marx and Engles in the memoirs?

 

[bigscoop]

Not exactly the same dates for the two deposits, and if one tries, other dates of other events can be found that could be made to look as a match.

What is your opinion of Lafitte's remarks about Marx and Engles in the memoirs?

No....I believe they fall within perfect chronological order with the two Beale deposits AND the Adams Onis Treaty. As for the whole Marx and Engles claim....I don't know what to make of that claim....we looked into a few thoughts regarding that claim a few years back but not to the extent that we would like to and probably should have. But I will tell you this....there is evidence to suggest that the version of the DOI in Beale Papers may have been selected/edited for a reason.

 

[ECS]

There is a certain irony in quoting a memoir that many experts have labeled a fake to prove that the Beale Papers are true and not a dime novel.

 

[bigscoop]

There is a certain irony in quoting a memoir that many experts have labeled a fake to prove that the Beale Papers are true and not a dime novel.

Is this all you have left? Is this the best you can do now? Perhaps you should read the book, then do a little deeper R&I and maybe actually have a little one-on-one with some of those unbiased "real experts", as I have. You might just discover that while they'll offer you an opinion they're really not all that certain either way. Like I said earlier, generally speaking, the internet will only get you so far and a lot of the information accessed is fickle, at best.

"There is a certain irony in trying to utilize conclusions and opinions of others you know nothing about."

And just for the record as you obviously like to twist things about, I have never said the Beale Papers were true. You're the one who is fixated on the true as written or complete fiction thing. Me, I accept that there could be a middle.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Is this all you have left? Is this the best you can do now? Perhaps you should read the book, then do a little deeper R&I and maybe actually have a little one-on-one with some of those unbiased "real experts", as I have. You might just discover that while they'll offer you an opinion they're really not all that certain either way. Like I said earlier, generally speaking, the internet will only get you so far and a lot of the information accessed is fickle, at best.

"There is a certain irony in trying to utilize conclusions and opinions of others you know nothing about."

And just for the record as you obviously like to twist things about, I have never said the Beale Papers were true. You're the one who is fixated on the true as written or complete fiction thing. Me, I accept that there could be a middle.

IF "Marx & Engles" ARE mentioned in LAFITTE'S MEMOIRES... LM is FAKE! Can someone QUOTE that "bit"...? I find it INTERESTING!

 

[TN_Guest1523]

http://treasurelagoon.wordpress.com

Look in feature articles and you'll find it.

Good thread,

 

[bigscoop]

IF "Marx & Engles" ARE mentioned in LAFITTE'S MEMOIRES... LM is FAKE!

Is it? What makes you say this?