The Answer Rest Here

[ECS]

The Risqué extended family bloodline is still there, as a basis for the Beale story, along with F C Hutter, Ward and Sherman.
Still a western/treasure dime novel with ciphers thrown in as a parlor entertainment.
With all your Lafitte, Bonaparte, French connections of Galveston intrigue, you still can't provide evidence hat it isn't a fictional dime novel written and sold only in the Lynchburg market.

 

[bigscoop]

The Risqué extended family bloodline is still there, as a basis for the Beale story, along with F C Hutter, Ward and Sherman.
Still a western/treasure dime novel with ciphers thrown in as a parlor entertainment.
With all your Lafitte, Bonaparte, French connections of Galveston intrigue, you still can't provide evidence hat it isn't a fictional dime novel written and sold only in the Lynchburg market.

Here is the point you are still missing, the BIG paradox you keep presenting in the face of your own logic and arguments....."Nor can you prove that it was just a dime novel." Don't you get it yet? "Your point of argument has always been predicated on a "purely speculative" theory that you can't prove." In essence you continue to be the pot calling the kettles black. It is one thing to debate theories and the various issues within but it is quite another to seal off all credible and reasonable theories simply because you don't wish them, or their evidence, to exist. So here we are again, back to the very middle ground that you simply refuse to allow even though you continue to allow and promote a 100% purely speculative theory. I don't understand how someone can say that the story is, "either true or complete fiction" without allowing some measure of room that both could also be accurate?

 

[ECS]

... So here we are again, back to the very middle ground that you simply refuse to allow even though you continue to allow and promote a 100% purely speculative theory. I don't understand how someone can say that the story is, "either true or complete fiction" without allowing some measure of room that both could also be accurate?

Here is the point that you are missing:
When I stated that the Beale story "is either true of fiction" it was to state both sides on the same coin. When one departs from the story contained in Beale to a totally different story and unrelated story to prove the Beale story true, the entire currency of the Beale story changes, and becomes a work of fiction.
By basing a theory on the questionable validity of Lafitte's memoirs and other events cited, you have tacitly presented the belief that the Beale story is a work of fiction.
With that stated, while presuming the story the Beale story as written is fiction, you then proceed to state that the treasure is real, based totally on events unrelated to the story contained in the Beale Papers.
The paradox you proclaim is of your own making, not mine.

 

[bigscoop]

Here is the point that you are missing:
When I stated that the Beale story "is either true of fiction" it was to state both sides on the same coin. When one departs from the story contained in Beale to a totally different story and unrelated story to prove the Beale story true, the entire currency of the Beale story changes, and becomes a work of fiction.
By basing a theory on the questionable validity of Lafitte's memoirs and other events cited, you have tacitly presented the belief that the Beale story is a work of fiction.
With that stated, while presuming the story the Beale story as written is fiction, you then proceed to state that the treasure is real, based totally on events unrelated to the story contained in the Beale Papers.
The paradox you proclaim is of your own making, not mine.

.....if you say so.
I'm still curious how "your" author held knowledge of those two shipments of wealth, the only recorded shipments of wealth during the period, that fall in perfect chronological order with the Beale deposits? Heck, that information wasn't made public until the 1940's. I'm also curious how Mathew Sherman, of Bedford county and the Lynchburg area, apparently "isn't" part of the Risque extended family, as the records I have reviewed certainly state differently. And, I'm also curious how you've determined that John Sherman had no connection at all with the job print and that he too "isn't" part of the extended Risque family? But it's your theory and your research, not mine, so I suppose you can continue to be as selective as you desire. Me, I think I'll still allow for that credible and entirely reasonable middle ground.

 

[ECS]

When did I ever mention that the Sherman's were not related, though distant, to that bloodline?
Does this back and forth bolster your theory? I think not.
Do you have solid evidence that the Sherman mentioned in the questionable Lafitte memoirs is Mathew "Mexico " Sherman? Or is this speculation on your part?
Do you believe the Beale story as written, to be true?
At one time you stated the "perfect chronological order" was related to the signing and ratification of Adams-Onis, now the "perfect chronological order" is related to an entry from the suspect memoirs where the name Sherman appears. Which is it?
While you present a speculative answer as to why the author used those dates, once again there is no way to prove why, just speculation.

 

[bigscoop]

When did I ever mention that the Sherman's were not related, though distant, to that bloodline?
Does this back and forth bolster your theory? I think not.
Do you have solid evidence that the Sherman mentioned in the questionable Lafitte memoirs is Mathew "Mexico " Sherman? Or is this speculation on your part?
Do you believe the Beale story as written, to be true?
At one time you stated the "perfect chronological order" was related to the signing and ratification of Adams-Onis, now the "perfect chronological order" is related to an entry from the suspect memoirs where the name Sherman appears. Which is it?
While you present a speculative answer as to why the author used those dates, once again there is no way to prove why, just speculation.

This is getting comical. Dude, you present a theory that the publication was based on extended Risque family members and events, yet you wish to remain very selective in what members you wish to choose. And that was my point, yes, both Shermans are in the extended Risque family bloodline, so here you are even going as far as to not allow all credible family members into your same sense of reason, only those you wish to select at random and as a matter of personal convenience. If you're going to pluck your theory out of thin air, for the reason you proclaim, then why not the Shermans? As for the chronological order, dude, it is chronological perfect to both, as has been displayed on several occasions in these forums. So again, how did your extended Risque family author know about this when it wasn't made public until the 1940's? I mean, you even stated that the pamphlet was based on extended Risque family members and events, so.....how did your extended Risque family author know? You simply can't have things both ways, my friend.

 

[ECS]

This is getting comical...

Yes it is, especially when you avoid questions presented by attacking the messenger.

 

[bigscoop]

Yes it is, especially when you avoid questions presented by attacking the messenger.

....attacking? And this charge coming from you? That's sort of like an osprey calling a tiny sparrow a big bird of prey!

 

[ECS]

....attacking? And this charge coming from you? That's sort of like an osprey calling a tiny sparrow a big bird of prey!

I have not attacked you, but have questioned the premise that is the foundation of your current theory-that being the highly suspect Lafitte memoirs, which were "brought to light" in 1948 by John Laflin.
Laflin claimed to be the great grandson of Lafitte, using the name John Andrechyne Lafitte, but also used other alias's John Nafsinger and John Matsjka, which raises questions concerning his character. Laflin also tried to sell other "authentic" historical documents which he forged, which leads one to the conclusion that Laflin was nothing more than a con man.
Researchers at the SAM HOUSTON REGIONAL LIBRARY AND RESEARCH CENTER, analyzed and studied the memoirs, comparing the known handwriting of Lafitte to that of Laflin and his other documents, and the known history of Lafitte and his associates, declared the memoirs to be fake.
To base a theory about the Beale story on quotes from this questionable memoir is an effort of futility- a premise needs to be built from sterner stuff.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

I have not attacked you, but have questioned the premise that is the foundation of your current theory-that being the highly suspect Lafitte memoirs, which were "brought to light" in 1948 by John Laflin.
Laflin claimed to be the great grandson of Lafitte, using the name John Andrechyne Lafitte, but also used other alias's John Nafsinger and John Matsjka, which raises questions concerning his character. Laflin also tried to sell other "authentic" historical documents which he forged, which leads one to the conclusion that Laflin was nothing more than a con man.
Researchers at the SAM HOUSTON REGIONAL LIBRARY AND RESEARCH CENTER, analyzed and studied the memoirs, comparing the known handwriting of Lafitte to that of Laflin and his other documents, and the known history of Lafitte and his associates, declared the memoirs to be fake.
To base a theory about the Beale story on quotes from this questionable memoir is an effort of futility- a premise needs to be built from sterner stuff.

And FRAUD...?

 

[bigscoop]

I have not attacked you, but have questioned the premise that is the foundation of your current theory-that being the highly suspect Lafitte memoirs, which were "brought to light" in 1948 by John Laflin.
Laflin claimed to be the great grandson of Lafitte, using the name John Andrechyne Lafitte, but also used other alias's John Nafsinger and John Matsjka, which raises questions concerning his character. Laflin also tried to sell other "authentic" historical documents which he forged, which leads one to the conclusion that Laflin was nothing more than a con man.
Researchers at the SAM HOUSTON REGIONAL LIBRARY AND RESEARCH CENTER, analyzed and studied the memoirs, comparing the known handwriting of Lafitte to that of Laflin and his other documents, and the known history of Lafitte and his associates, declared the memoirs to be fake.
To base a theory about the Beale story on quotes from this questionable memoir is an effort of futility- a premise needs to be built from sterner stuff.

You must be quoting internet sources again. Have you actually spoken to some of these people enough to conclude that they are still not open to the possibility that the information in the memoirs could be accurate? I've spoken to several noted authors and researchers who have spent years researching these memories and the information within and I assure that nearly all of them are leaving that door open. This is why the validity of that manuscript is still being debated today. Once again, internet resources will get you only so far. If you want to know the real truth about various things you generally have to go directly to the sources. We have attempted to do that at every turn, many of these sources actually providing us with sources and information we would have otherwise never even known existed. But believe whatever you desire. I'm only telling you some of what our research has produced and what we have concluded to date from all of that extensive research. If you want to continue to argue these findings then that's your thing and I can easily and comfortably live with it. I'm that confident in everything we've concluded thus far.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

You must be quoting internet sources again. Have you actually spoken to some of these people enough to conclude that they are still not open to the possibility that the information in the memoirs could be accurate? I've spoken to several noted authors and researchers who have spent years researching these memories and the information within and I assure that nearly all of them are leaving that door open. This is why the validity of that manuscript is still being debated today. Once again, internet resources will get you only so far. If you want to know the real truth about various things you generally have to go directly to the sources. We have attempted to do that at every turn, many of these sources actually providing us with sources and information we would have otherwise never even known existed. But believe whatever you desire. I'm only telling you some of what our research has produced and what we have concluded to date from all of that extensive research. If you want to continue to argue these findings then that's your thing and I can easily and comfortably live with it. I'm that confident in everything we've concluded thus far.

Live "comfortably" with it, then. Is TIKI BAR open...? Your blog IS interesting...

 

[bigscoop]

Live "comfortably" with it, then. Is TIKI BAR open...? Your blog IS interesting...

TIKI-BAR is always open. Had a whole party of buffalo hunters in the place last night.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

TIKI-BAR is always open. Had a whole party of buffalo hunters in the place last night.

Serve 'em BEE ALE...? Did Snooky & Tiny Weeny Meanie do MUD-RASSELING...? I heard that Rev. Billy C. Wirtz from Fla. was "tickling the Ivories" near the Bar area; his FAVE...?
TEENIE WEENIE MEANIE... heard it on U-Tube, on the "Net"; MUST be TRUE!

 

[ECS]

... I heard that Rev. Billy C. Wirtz from Fla. was "tickling the Ivories" near the Bar area...

WOW! The Rev lives in Marion county and has been playing at several Ocala establishments.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

WOW! The Rev lives in Marion county and has been playing at several Ocala establishments.

YEP! The "REV" is from JMU, (a few years after me); saw him @ 3 times... FUNNY as "H". If you go, he like applauds, if none.... he is gonna ask if y'all are a "bunch of dang Buddhists or something." GO! HIGHLY recommended for a FUN evening!

 

[TN_Guest1523]

This area is were Gen Jackson had a plantation. Pirate house was about 2 blocks from Jackson's house in Waveland, MS now a water park.

All of the above notwithstanding, one must now inquire into that part of the legend involving the persona of Jean Lafitte the Pirate. The name Lafitte appears a number of times in the written records of Hancock County. Various spellings are evident: Laffite, Lafito, Laffiteaux, and Lafitto. These include official documents such as deeds, probate records, and census reports. The most curious records are dated substantially later than the 1803-09 period, noted above as important years in the study of the slave trade. Beginning in 1825 and going to 1850, there are no less than five deeds showing the real estate activity of Jean and Clarisse Lafitte. Even more interesting is the fact that the 1850 deed recites a sale of forty acres by Clarisse to Jean Defour. That document traces a chain of title to one Mary Parish, who in 1833 had been awarded 639 acres by the United States government. (An earlier document indicates a claim by Mary Parish and the Widow Moran. The latter was possibly a parent of Parish, who identified land in another deed as having been property sold “by my mother and father.” It must be stated, however, that genealogical tables do not confirm this.) The acreage so described in several of these deeds was the land, or very near to the land, which included the Pirate House.

The Pirate House and Jean Lafitte - Hancock County Historical Society

 

[releventchair]

Regarding handwriting comparisons et all..
Sure age changes. Habits too, but in handwriting when compared to known samples some consistent traits show up.
While physical changes can affect it, mental can too.
Still, on a page by page comparison if multiple analysis's suggest a high probability beyond maybe; then stronger consideration can be given for an individual document.
Compounded by the number of pages but then those traits and consistencies should be more common with greater numbers?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Regarding handwriting comparisons et all..
Sure age changes. Habits too, but in handwriting when compared to known samples some consistent traits show up.
While physical changes can affect it, mental can too.
Still, on a page by page comparison if multiple analysis's suggest a high probability beyond maybe; then stronger consideration can be given for an individual document.
Compounded by the number of pages but then those traits and consistencies should be more common with greater numbers?

Father-in-law was an EXPERT at this for Maryland State Police (Lt. Col.).

 

[bigscoop]

I think romance/lore/legend/etc., should always be evaluated against what is credible and reasonable.