the break

[outlaws15]

The 3 on the right are broken points/knife
One on left would be another lamellar, but broken.
My question is when u see something like these cross section breaks can it be a good sign it might be a artifact.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Treasure of Victoria Peak - Grab it through Amazon!

[uniface]

As far as it goes, yes.

 

[outlaws15]

Thank you for the reply uniface

 

[H.P.]

I believe they would have to have some intentional flaking pattern identifying them as known tools, otherwise they are leftovers from the spall reduction process.,...in this case I can’t tell from those photos.

 

[sandchip]

That's one helluva bannerstone laying in the background, wink, wink.

 

[outlaws15]

Thanks Hal, I'm not seeing intentional flaking (from what little I know). I'm going to collect all the lamellar like pieces and take much better pictures. The break was just a shot to c if it could be a factor to easily identify. The nothing easy in a creek. You land lovers have it easy
I probably need to get back in shape and dive the springs where there are no artifacts.

I believe they would have to have some intentional flaking pattern identifying them as known tools, otherwise they are leftovers from the spall reduction process.,...in this case I can’t tell from those photos.

 

[outlaws15]

Yea, sandchip how cool would that be? The forearm to my A5 browning 12, figure I'd get a 16 and 20 same yr to keep it company. 1948, but think ill settle for yrs around 1948. Buddy was walking me through what to look far in buying one.

That's one helluva bannerstone laying in the background, wink, wink.

 

[outlaws15]

Hal I'm beginning 2 c what u mean. Im finding that what I can see up close and someone mentioned creek chips the lamellar that I thought might be are spalling by this picture of smaller stones about two split soon(next 1000 yrs) or until I drop it.

 

[uniface]

Bear in mind, guys, that nobody who stayed alive and fed by breaking rocks and using them would waste 45 minutes and a lot of usable material by turning a two pound chunk of rock into one "arrowhead" and leaving the rest as discarded debitage (waste).

If if you could produce a serviceable implement with two or three whacks, that's what you'd do -- nobody works harder/longer than he needs to.

FWIW, spend enough time looking at artifacts from the Paleolithic in Europe, where there wasn't the concentration of "arrowhead" bifaces that people got fixated on here. Especially Levallois (Neanderthal) era tools. The same KIND OF simply-made tools the arrowhead collector mentality here dismisses as "just debitage -- but keep looking, because there must be some REAL artifacts where you're finding those" are as widely and easily recognized as defined tool types there as point types are here.

To the objection that there were no people here using Levallois technology here : actually,there were. But the evidence of it (arrowheadolgy was periodically a battlefield in that contest of ideas) got scoffed away as if the uninformed majority vote determined reality. BUT, Levallois technology was ALSO at the root of Paleo and some later reduction stratigies, and recognized as such from the 1950s on (Don Dragoo's work at the Wells Creek fluted point site -- he was, along with John Witthoft [Shoop site] one of the FEW American archaeologists knowledgeable enough to recognize it).

A broken rock doesn't need a lot of edge trimming to be a useable tool. It just needs a useable working edge.

FWIW.

 

[Fat]

That's one helluva bannerstone laying in the background, wink, wink.

It looks like the forearm from a shotgun. Beretta 390?. I have a 20ga that is a nice pheasant gun.

I’m slow, A-5 browning, I love the humpback, a lot of them here were put up when steel shot became the law.

 

[outlaws15]

Great read uniface.
Thanks

 

[uniface]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0710-1

https://www.science20.com/news_arti..._stone_age_tools_not_african_invention-145703

https://www.washington.edu/news/201...ent-of-ancient-african-or-european-influence/

https://anthropology.net/2018/01/31/levallois-stone-tools-in-india-385000-years-ago/

 

[Fred250]

That Levallois stuff sure looks familiar.

 

[uniface]

Way back when, my friend Richard Donninger collected hundreds of Levallois artifacts from a deflating, single component site. When he tried to tell people about them, they treated him like an escaped mental patient. Long and vicious was the scorn and belittling @ arrowheadology, all by arrowhead collectors, sure that Levallois technology couldn't possibly exist here who wouldn't have recognised it if they found it some morning in their cereal.

The kicker was that Rick, a sign painter by trade, had bought a library of scarce and very expensive books on it, all written in French, which he learned so he could read them. He probably knew more about that technology than anyone else in this country, credentialed or not.

Even the alternative archaeology people who were on some pretty shaky ground themselves dissed him, publishing an article he wrote but loading it up with caveats designed to belittle the value of his discoveries.

part 1
http://pleistocenecoalition.com/newsletter/march-april2015.pdf
pp. 10-12


part 2
http://pleistocenecoalition.com/newsletter/may-june2015.pdf
pp.13-15

He even went so far as to enlist the help of the most Levallois-experienced archaeologist in Britain, sending him artifacts he identified as unequivocal Levallois tools.

But mere evidence was useless when dealing with people in no mood to consider it. He pushed and he pushed, finally wrangling a promise that he's be given table space to exhibit a sampling of his collection at the PaleoAmerican Conference that Stanford & Bradley made such now-famous pre-Clovis waves at.

When he arrived (at his own expense) to set his display up, he found that he'd been assigned a room in a different building, a block away. His name was not on the list of exhibiters in the program, and he was forbidden to even post a sign alerting people to the fact that he was there at all. A more efficient, total non-personing could hardly be imagined.

I even wrote a song about him you read a while back, which I'm not going to bore you by repeating.

Stuff still gets my dander up. Sorry.

 

[H.P.]

Thanks Hal, I'm not seeing intentional flaking (from what little I know). I'm going to collect all the lamellar like pieces and take much better pictures. The break was just a shot to c if it could be a factor to easily identify. The nothing easy in a creek. You land lovers have it easy
I probably need to get back in shape and dive the springs where there are no artifacts.

Lololol...Try diving 10 feet deep in a 3foot visibility dark cold river, I’d rather have a creek to walk, of course most of my collection is surface or dig and that’s gravy..

 

[H.P.]

Way back when, my friend Richard Donninger collected hundreds of Levallois artifacts from a deflating, single component site. When he tried to tell people about them, they treated him like an escaped mental patient. Long and vicious was the scorn and belittling @ arrowheadology, all by arrowhead collectors, sure that Levallois technology couldn't possibly exist here who wouldn't have recognised it if they found it some morning in their cereal.

The kicker was that Rick, a sign painter by trade, had bought a library of scarce and very expensive books on it, all written in French, which he learned so he could read them. He probably knew more about that technology than anyone else in this country, credentialed or not.

Even the alternative archaeology people who were on some pretty shaky ground themselves dissed him, publishing an article he wrote but loading it up with caveats designed to belittle the value of his discoveries.

part 1
http://pleistocenecoalition.com/newsletter/march-april2015.pdf
pp. 10-12


part 2
http://pleistocenecoalition.com/newsletter/may-june2015.pdf
pp.13-15

He even went so far as to enlist the help of the most Levallois-experienced archaeologist in Britain, sending him artifacts he identified as unequivocal Levallois tools.

But mere evidence was useless when dealing with people in no mood to consider it. He pushed and he pushed, finally wrangling a promise that he's be given table space to exhibit a sampling of his collection at the PaleoAmerican Conference that Stanford & Bradley made such now-famous pre-Clovis waves at.

When he arrived (at his own expense) to set his display up, he found that he'd been assigned a room in a different building, a block away. His name was not on the list of exhibiters in the program, and he was forbidden to even post a sign alerting people to the fact that he was there at all. A more efficient, total non-personing could hardly be imagined.

I even wrote a song about him you read a while back, which I'm not going to bore you by repeating.

Stuff still gets my dander up. Sorry.

That’s so cool, all the billboard painters at National 3M.collected,.all15 of us.,you can spot a lot of cleared fields from a 50 foot billboard,Lol.

 

[Tesorodeoro]

Yea, sandchip how cool would that be? The forearm to my A5 browning 12, figure I'd get a 16 and 20 same yr to keep it company. 1948, but think ill settle for yrs around 1948. Buddy was walking me through what to look far in buying one.

Check out Simpson LTD if you have not already. I’ve bought a couple guns from them and was very satisfied with what they shipped. One was a 1968 new in box 12 gauge wingmaster 870. Cost just a tad more than a modern plastic hunting shotgun. Son ended up buying a replacement barrel with interchangeable chokes ready for steel.

Per the A5...it’s expensive (but you seem to have good taste)...Hevi-shot Bismuth is the cure for the steel blues in fine firearms. Just have to be a good shot.

 

[outlaws15]

3 foot thats awsome vis

Lololol...Try diving 10 feet deep in a 3foot visibility dark cold river, I’d rather have a creek to walk, of course most of my collection is surface or dig and that’s gravy..

 

[uniface]

That’s so cool, all the billboard painters at National 3M.collected,.all15 of us.,you can spot a lot of cleared fields from a 50 foot billboard,Lol.

REVISE PREVIOUS. Reading the articles again, it turns out my memory was askew. Window washer -- not sign painter. Both up high but different skill sets. My bad. Sorry

 

[sandchip]

...FWIW.

It's worth a hell of a lot to me. We appreciate you, brother.

Mr. Donninger is a prime example of the working people, commoners, who are smart as hell, but dismissed by the elites as know-nothings because they're out there doing the jobs others wouldn't stoop so low to do. I've seen it a lot in my life, my father being another prime example. Brilliant man, yet there was no job he wouldn't tackle. I know, because I was right there under his feet, and damn proud of it. That's okay though. As Navin Johnson's daddy said, "God loves the working man."