Oroblanco said:
HOLA amigos,
Blindbowman wrote:
i was canning tomatos most of the day , i am going to bed early and watch the football game .. good night people
Coincident - Mrs O has been canning tomatoes all day here, just putting in the last batch now. I really do think we have many things in common here, despite whatever differences in beliefs we might have. Nothing like home-grown veggies!
I don't have a reference handy but am pretty sure that the Aztecs own prophesy of a return of Quetzalcoatl dates back more than 100 years, and the arrival of Cortez fit their predicted date exactly. So in some ways, the prophecy came true - (perhaps we might see a warning to those who dabble in the Dark Arts, like the witches and wizards of Montezuma?) and their horrific religious practices so despised by Quetzalcoatl came to an end. (Waxing philosophic there for a moment.
)
Just as an aside, on the Aztec numerical system but I did look into this as one possible clue of cross-oceanic contact; comparing the Aztec and Mayan number systems with Phoenician and Punic, there are some similarities at a glance but we must wonder why the extremely useful concept of ZERO did not get transmitted? Casual contact such as might occur in limited trading might well not transmit such a concept, but Blindbowman has indicated that a great deal of information must have been exchanged. So I have to wonder now,
if Pythagoras got his information and mathematical knowledge from this side of the Atlantic, (via Phoenicians?)
then why did he not immediately grasp and adopt the ZERO? Zero is such an important number that we often ignore it, but just try doing a few basic math exercises using ONLY Roman numerals for instance...
XII x VII
CCIX / III
MDXC - CCV
MMII - MMII =
??
We won't even TOUCH the matter of FRACTIONS in Roman numerals, it is really different! Now remember that Pythagoras was using
the GREEK number system which is even more difficult to work with than the Roman, since it simply substitutes Greek letters for numbers! I am having
trouble accepting the idea of Pythagoras getting his information from proto-Aztec/Chichimecs in Chicomoztoc, if you haven't figured that out. *
Don't you just love that we all use the ARABIC number system? I do! So much nicer to work with!*
I realize that we have virtually nothing of the works of Pythagoras, since most of his teaching was verbal, but wouldn't you suspect that such a dramatic bit of information as Blindbowman is proposing having been transmitted, ought to have left us some kind of clue in a statement from Pythagoras? There are a few of his statements preserved by his students and admirers, always couched as "in his own words" or to that effect. I know that Plato's ideas do show influence from Pythagorean ideas, BUT - again
why should Plato have turned to a misleading statement when attributing his sources for the story of Atlantis? This makes no sense to me, especially when the biographer Plutarch affirms that Solon was Plato's source. Blindbowman if you can provide a good explanation for this I would appreciate it, and I ask you specifically because you have made the statement that Plato got his information from Pythagoras, rather than the sources Plato recorded for us (Dropides-Solon-priests of Sais in Egypt). Thank you in advance,
Blindbowman also wrote:
how good it is to be alive...
Ah, how sweet it is -
until the pain meds start to wear off! Then "life" has quite a
different 'flavor'......
Oroblanco
"I don't have a reference handy but am pretty sure that the Aztecs own prophesy of a return of Quetzalcoatl dates back more than 100 years, and the arrival of Cortez fit their predicted date exactly."
as i under stood it ,,, Quetzalcoatl told the Aztec he would return a hunder years later, but Cortez showed up two hunderd years latter ,, and yes you are correct about the date ...
"their horrific religious practices "
now here is where we dont agree Oro . i dont see this as horrific,, diffrent then our religious practices or modern religious practices .. but never the less we can not judge them for what we dont truely under stand , modern religion sees the death and says savages ,, but did the modern chruch have its own reasons to lable these cultures as savages .. yes they got their cut from the spainish ..and look at the rule of the chruch . destroying ay records of their culture .. its nothing more then religious genocide IMHO and what really pisses me off is this not the only time they get away with this BS ...
look at all the books destroyed in the 1500's , the chruch should be held acountable for these acts of religious genocide...what could we have learn from the records they order destroyed ...maybe we would have learn they dont control us at all ..we control our selfs ..our fate is ours and ours alone . the chruch is curupted IMHO and i will have no part of a religion that answers to its needs and not the will of the people ....
our under standing of death and sacrifice comes most often from standerds set by the chruch or religions is that really any diffrent from their culture .. i think not ... did modern religions take life and condem people to death for not kissing the chruches you know what ... they sure did .. so are they any diffrent ...NO .....
power can curupt...
"then why did he not immediately grasp and adopt the ZERO? "
that in fact is one of the reason i beleive he did get the idea from them .. see ZERO is the simbolic of the moon , the chicomoztoc culture uses it for the simble of the moon or spirit world , they use it before the given messure , to defind lunar scale is related ..
how dose this look ...( 0 l l ) = lunar 10 ,,.... (0 0) = lunar 20 or it could be drawn (0 ll,0 ll) so 25 would look like this
0 l
0 ll
0 ll
now do you under stand why i say the concept of ZERO came from this culture , they in fact use it as ZERO but we never knew what it means as a simbolic . it stands for the lunar scale ...i can prove they used this dirrectly ..
see as Pythagoras saw it , he asume the (0) was the lowest posable number of the culture , that wasnt true at all . even if the (0) would still hold the same value as nothing . it did in fact hold a simbolic meaning to this culture .., IMHO the shamen controlled the trade and thus they & the kings and upper classes used the number systems ,most of their people had no reason to learn to count at all ...
but take a good look at what their systen dose it starts with (0) before each value , Pythagoras made a common misteak , he asumed ...LOL
you must also under stand that when you have nothing of value . do you have nothing .. no . nothing still has a spiritual value . this is what i beleive Pythagoras was confused by ... he saw them use this number but it had no value so he did not know the meaning of it andnamed it ZERO....
not knowing its true meaning to this culture ...the value would reflect about the same value and meaning ,,but its a matter of prospective ...
no dout what so ever this culture used ZERO frist . ,they just had used it as a simbolic and Pythagoras had no fristhand wisdom of that so he gave it a name he could relate to ...ZERO...
came back to the store, and the assistant told him about the sale.
