The history of Tayopa

[Unicorn]

Oh my goodness what a story......... absolutely fascinating..... ....

 

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[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Evening. Here is an unpublished map of Tayopa. Compare it to Dobies. Have fun.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

WOO HOO muchas gracias compadre! I love it! Can you make out the names of the individual mines? I have always wondered about the list of mines, and don't have a complete list. Thank you for sharing this map amigo, do you mind if we were to download it and save it? If you would rather not, I will not understand and will hold my breath until I turn blue. <kidding of course>
Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Allo Oro: of course, but I will send it to you, and post a much clearer version.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

Don Jose, el Dueno de Real y Minas de Tayopa wrote

Did you ever figure how the corrections are made?

Well the figures work out to a multiple of 5 x the number given in varas for each example, but as to how this was worked out I have no idea. The only way that seems obvious would be that you simply measured the distances from the mine entrances to the church, but that may not be possible for all of the mines judging by the photos of the terrain. It is curious that the number in varas, would work out to an exact multiple of 5 in meters, when the metric system was invented in England by Wilkins in 1668 and as far as I know, not adopted in Spain until 1852, Italy 1861 and in France circa 1795 so is not likely that padres working in the wild frontier would be making use of it. Any theories to explain this seeming anachronistic use of the metric system of measure? Thank you in advance, and thank you again for the very cool map! (Not to give away my age by use of the anachronistic slang either!)

Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HIO ORO: hmm good thinking, but how would you have arrived at that comb with only the vara data?

As for stories, care for any of the following that might 'not' include Tayopa?? Such as the time we went after the French ship in 300 ft of water? The lost mines of La Tarasca, Las Pimas, Tepoca, La Gloria pan, playing wild west sheriff in Chinapas with 5 baddies in the moonlight? Looking for the 9 ft tall giants or the people of 1 meter high, working on the story of the Pirate Cromwell's ship remains, the lost Zimmerman gold shipment, the ww-2 sub in 80 ft of water, the shoot out with 3 bandits in the remote part of the rio Yaqui barranca, being guest of honor at the cannibal feast on Malaita? Reminisces of days alone in the forbidden City in Peking, or days on the Gobi? Exploration in Quintana roo looking for Mayan ruins. Living with the Yaqui and Don Juan, what ever, you name it. Have others, if none of these fit the bill.

but Tayopa would have to be a bit guarded, since most of the data will eventally end up in a book.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

Hola amigos,

El Tropical Tramp posted,

how would you have arrived at that comb with only the vara data?

I have no idea amigo, I am not that smart! I would be interested in hearing how you did, if you don't mind sharing?

Don Jose, el Tropical Tramp also wrote

As for stories, care for any of the following that might 'not' include Tayopa?? Such as the time we went after the French ship in 300 ft of water? The lost mines of La Tarasca, Las Pimas, Tepoca, La Gloria pan, playing wild west sheriff in Chinapas with 5 baddies in the moonlight? Looking for the 9 ft tall giants or the people of 1 meter high, working on the story of the Pirate Cromwell's ship remains, the lost Zimmerman gold shipment, the ww-2 sub in 80 ft of water, the shoot out with 3 bandits in the remote part of the rio Yaqui barranca, being guest of honor at the cannibal feast on Malaita? Reminisces of days alone in the forbidden City in Peking, or days on the Gobi? Exploration in Quintana roo looking for Mayan ruins. Living with the Yaqui and Don Juan, what ever, you name it. Have others, if none of these fit the bill.

but Tayopa would have to be a bit guarded, since most of the data will eventally end up in a book.

My vote is YES, oui, si, jah, da, zehr gut, tres bien, muy bueno - please do, I would love to read as many of your stories as you would care to share with us. I am not picky about staying on topic, though I personally have never, ever so much as drifted even one syllable off topic in any of my thousands upon thousands of posts I don't mind if someone else does. ( hee hee oh and I never, ever lie either! You can take that to the bank! Don't try to cash it though or we will both be in trouble.)

Looking forward to your replies,
Oroblanco

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Evening Ed: which Petaca are you referring to?

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Evening, sorry but have been running all over the country and only have time to post shortys, mostly in Lrl posts.. Will do so here in the morning. That is definitely another petaca. Toyaltita has often been put forward as Tayopa, it isn't, but it is very rich in it's own right.

Don Jose de La mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

good morning Oro. Regarding the distances to the various mine, I had an edge on you, I had found Los remedios and so knew approx. how far it was to the door of the capilla. It was a simple job to convert.

This was in a transitional period of the vara and codo, since the codo is approx 1/2 vara I simply divided the vara numbers in the document by 2 then multiplied by 10. It worked out perfectly.

This little trick of theirs had stopped many searchers, notice my secondary chart at the bottom.

It is impossible for that many workings to be that close to each other, except in the Tayopa configuration hehehe A further general confirmation of Tayopa. ©@

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

This is for oro to understand that he HAS to get into condition. Looking south from the tayopa

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

That is gorgeous country amigo, but I HOPE there is some sort of a trail in. I am not quite "29" anymore and that country looks a wee bit on the steep side!

Sock coffee anyone?

 

[Crow]

Hello Real de Tayopa

Thank you for the interesting posts and insights to your amazing life.

Just of interest: Your time in being guest of honor at the cannibal feast on Malaita? I gather that was during WW2?

Was that the Kwaio people you came in contact with?

Thanking you in advance.

Crow

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Evening Crow, my friend: You asked when was my invitation? It was in 43/44, on my return to the Solomons.. Frankly, I have no idea to what or which group they belonged to. I have always gotten along well with remote or primitive people, perhaps because I treat them as equals, especially on their own grounds. While I may have a superior formal education, there are countless things that they can teach me. So on an overall basis, on their grounds, we rather balance out.

I even treat Oro as an equal. Now 'that' is a unique testimonial of being broad minded? Next I suppose that sheep herding, x cowboy, will want to go to Tayopa.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

El Tropical Tramp wrote

Next I suppose that sheep herding, x cowboy, will want to go to Tayopa.

Eh, that might be putting the cart before the horse; it would seem more appropriate for the story first, then a visit, if that can be arranged. I may be impatient but can afford to wait, and learn the full story.
Oroblanco

What, no sock coffee this time amigo? <Maybe Blackfoot type sock coffee perhaps? I have heard that you folks south of the border love your coffee a bit on the STRONG side after all. >

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

ORO mi bosum, beloved, wonderful coffee making buddy, has it ever occurred to you that I might need someone to spring any traps? Beth and I can share the insurance.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[Oroblanco]

ORO mi bosum, beloved, wonderful coffee making buddy, has it ever occurred to you that I might need someone to spring any traps? Beth and I can share the insurance.

Don Jose de La Mancha

I might know just the person for that job, an old trapper from way back.

 

[Crow]

Hello All

Thank you Real de Tayopa for you amazing insight into your past and the Tayopa story. Your a treasure in its self and a true gentleman of the code.

Now there has been a few questions gnawing away at my tired old inquisitive brain.

Are the original papers concerning Tayopa allegedly found by Henry O' Flipper in or around 1900, the inventory written by a Jesuit on 17 February 1646 still in existence?

And was there any baptismal records of Guadalupe de Tayopa still surviving at the church at Bacadeguachi?

I am interested in Finding out the earliest verifiable reference to Tayopa.

Once again thinking you in advance of your interesting comments.

Crow

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

good moring crow: believe it or not your post only showed up this morning ? You asked -->Are the original papers concerning Tayopa allegedly found by Henry O' Flipper in or around 1900, the inventory written by a Jesuit on 17 February 1646 still in existence
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Frankly, I haven't the slighest idea. While it would be wonderful to see or own them, they are no longer necessary.
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you also asked -->And was there any baptismal records of Guadalupe de Tayopa still surviving at the church at Bacadeguachi?
************
Again, I have no idea, although Sr Polzer flatly denied it when we were talking about Tayopa and specifically about this- but then ??

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You asked -->I am interested in Finding out the earliest verifiable reference to Tayopa
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Good luck on that. this has been , and is still one of the major problems with Tayopa. I did find that the reference to watching the sun setting over Tayopa from the sierra de Minaca in Chihua. was 100% correct. See Attachment.

 

[Oroblanco]

Crow wrote

>I am interested in Finding out the earliest verifiable reference to Tayopa

What do you consider to be "verifiable"? Aristophanes mentions the name in his "Clouds" <448-380 BC> but I doubt that it has the same meaning, rather just a coincidence that the name Tayopa is found in ancient Greek. Capt Hurdaide's expedition 1602 does not mention it by name, but it appears that the first discovery was made during this expedition.
Oroblanco