The Lost Carson Mine

[ikesdad]

A dragline ? An actual dragline and not a slusher or slusher bucket ?
I work at a mine that has 3 draglines and I cant even envision such up there.
Gonna have to see a picture of that critter.

 

[sdcfia]

Great thread. Thanks to everyone for the insights. I've enjoyed chasing Temple's tales over the years.
The drag line is certainly there, where Barton describes it, along with more recent stashed supplies and evidence of prospecting. It's been a few years since I last visited that site.

I've seen the motorcycle down on Lime Creek and was in awe of how it ever got there. Along with old cabin remains, there's evidence of a long past trail down that same side of the creek, with cryptic markings on trees along the way. Using tree markings from the top of Lime creek road (the hairpin) I found a long ago used trail to worked outcroppings of quartz veins before descending to the creek downstream of the motorcycle. There's also a good modern trail down to the creek that I later found that made traveling much easier.
As far as getting up Twilight, one probable past route started in Purgatory Flats and paralleled Twilight Creek to the south on the high ridgeline before traversing over to Twilight basin. I've never been there, and I'm not sure I've got it in me anymore for such a feat. It's really tough country to travel in. Between plant growth along water courses and blowdown in the forests, it's slower going than most people realize. I'd much rather climb a 14er along an established route and call it an "easy" day in comparison.

pealer, do you put faith in the belief that the Carson outcropping is up high on the West Needle Mountain face?

 

[pealer]

Yes, it's a slusher bucket, cable, and engine. It's really out of place up there, and looks like it was used to remove the overburden at the Baker Boy's lunch spot in Temple's story. I'm not a miner, so seeing it as Barton described made sense to me. I would have loved seeing how it ever got up there. I gotta picture somewhere from a few years ago. Maybe I'll have to learn how to post one.

sdcfia, I put faith in Temple Cornelius. His stories seem born from truth, or the truth he believed at the time. As I read, and re-read the story, I would l certainly send an eye there as I looked for clues on the ground. What a tough place to get to though, especially with backpacking and prospecting gear.

 

[UncleMatt]

Hi Pealer, thanks for your comments. Can you please illustrate the trails you are talking about from Lime Creek road down to Lime creek? I saw no such tree markings, and would love to go check them out and date them. Were they on pine trees or aspens, do you recall? Please provide gps coordinates if you can. You can use google earth to create a line following the trails you mention, and then post a screenshot of it here if you don't mind. I would also like to know where you saw the outcropping of quartz.

From the amount of heavy equipment I found in that cabin, I became convinced there was an easier way down where pack animals could be employed, but I didn't see it while I was there exploring.

 

[UncleMatt]

Yes, it's a slusher bucket, cable, and engine. It's really out of place up there, and looks like it was used to remove the overburden at the Baker Boy's lunch spot in Temple's story. I'm not a miner, so seeing it as Barton described made sense to me. I would have loved seeing how it ever got up there. I gotta picture somewhere from a few years ago. Maybe I'll have to learn how to post one.

sdcfia, I put faith in Temple Cornelius. His stories seem born from truth, or the truth he believed at the time. As I read, and re-read the story, I would l certainly send an eye there as I looked for clues on the ground. What a tough place to get to though, especially with backpacking and prospecting gear.

I have been up there very recently, and even posted photos from that area, and no such engine or drag line and bucket was in view. Can you please post a gps coordinate for where you saw them and I will go get photos for us all to see.

 

[UncleMatt]

Okay, here is a video of the cabin next to Lime Creek both inside and out. Please forgive me being out of breath and not finishing some of my sentences. It had been a long day!

Note: I will repost the video from youtube, facebook link stopped working

 

[UncleMatt]

Here is video of the motorcycle and another, much older cabin. Note the fact that large trees have grown up inside of it. And there was tree markings on one of those aspens from 1967, so the trees were full grown 50 years ago.

Note: I will repost the video from youtube, facebook link stopped working

 

[UncleMatt]

Here is a photo of a 50 gallon barrel lid with writing on it. This was laying in front of the cabin. I can make out the words "twilight creek" on it, but not much else. Feel free to speak up if you can make out anything else on it. Along with the 2" dredge hone in the cabin, and the words on this, I think Twilight Creek was definitely being prospected and dredged. The gas can in the cabin may have been for the dredge, and not for the motorcycle.

View attachment 1194545

 

[pealer]

Here you go, right at the Baker Brother's lunch spot.
I haven't tried to post photos, so let's see if this works.

 

[pealer]

Head south from the hairpin without dropping and find this tree. It will lead to others and then outcroppings before descending to the creek. It's not an easy trail after a while, but it's there if you look. I'm not going to give it all away, what fun would that be?! I'll go adventure with you sometime, though, if you want. I don't profess to know a lot, but I'm pretty good at finding obscure history.

The modern trail is lightly used by local fisherman and coveted for themselves. It's not much of a footpath, but it's an easy way down to the creek, lickety split. Maybe you were on it.
Here's my pic of the motorcycle:



BTW should I be uploading files to this website, or would it be better to link to my photo sharing website? Thanks.

 

[sdcfia]

Nice videos, Matt. Those cabins indicate an obvious strong interest in the area - the older one maybe dating to the late 19th century, the newer one ca WWI to WWII, IMO. That newer cabin was very well done, indicating that the occupant planned on extended use of the structure. Prospectors/miners? Any old tools laying around? Judging by the books, clothing, supplies, etc., the more recent users were also apparently there for weeks/months at a time. Might have been hippies. All the original building materials, furnishings, etc. came down trails you haven't found yet. Likewise the later supplies still strewn about. The trail bike was likely the in/out access vehicle using the same trail.

The GE shot below shows bits and pieces of a trail apparently beginning near the Lime Creek Road hairpin. There may be more trails coming up Lime Creek from the Purgatory Flats side. See if you can lay your hands on some of the earlier USGS topos.

 

[UncleMatt]

Pealer, than you so much for those photos! However, I was just up at the Baker Brothers Seam site, and did not see that equipment at all. Of course, I may have just missed it, but I have been up there several times. How far up from the V is this stuff located on the southern branch?

Also, The path you describe coming off the south hairpin from Lime Creek Road is exactly the path I took. We dropped down from the center of the hairpin and headed directly down the ridge of granite. However, I did not see these tree markings. What year were these photos taken? I will post a gps trail of our exact path later today when I get back from my niece's birthday party so you can see. I have zero problem with posting everything I have to post, if anyone can use it to find the Lost Carson Mine, good for them! I am more about sharing information than holding it back. Just how I am.

 

[UncleMatt]

Sdcfia, That looks like a trail, but it may also just be a seam of granite outcropping in a line. I saw a lot of such granite outcroppings up there that looked like trails from a distance but weren't. I will check it out next time I am up there.

 

[pealer]

Good eye, sdcfia

My guess too is that Purgatory Flats will yield clues to an old trail along Lime Creek to the cabin near the mouth of Twilight. I've never been down there, but it makes sense that heavier materials could have been brought that way. Google Earth shows bits and pieces of trail on the north side of the creek after passing the confluence with Cascade Creek.

 

[UncleMatt]

If you notice in the cabin video when I start walking around the outside there is an old broken pick on a nail to the upper right of the door. If there was indeed sheep herding going on in the area, I wonder if that cabin might not have started off as a sheep herder dwelling, or maybe where the herd boss stayed during the summer.

 

[sdcfia]

Sdcfia, That looks like a trail, but it may also just be a seam of granite outcropping in a line. I saw a lot of such granite outcroppings up there that looked like trails from a distance but weren't. I will check it out next time I am up there.

Yeah, that could well be. Regardless, we already know from older reports that prospectors worked Twilight Creek years ago, hence the cabins, tools, etc. Your task is to find not only an easier access to Twilight Creek mouth, but also to that upper basin. That is uphill all the way. Man, a trail is almost mandatory.

 

[sdcfia]

View attachment 1194556

Here you go, right at the Baker Brother's lunch spot.
I haven't tried to post photos, so let's see if this works.

Ha ha. I ran one of those for a short time in the Idarado Mine on Red Mountain Pass back in '74, filling in for an absentee for a few shifts. Boy, I hated that thing. Wasn't as bad as a jackleg though. What a helluva way to get a paycheck.

 

[pealer]

Uncle Matt,

I should be thanking you for your posts about Temple Cornelius. It's how I found this thread and others. It looks like you really get after it and have quite the passion for adventure.
I'm not trying to hold anything back in my information. I just think it's part of the adventure to find your own clues. It's really how I find the most treasure, letting go of others perceptions, and adding my own "left turns". I think it's how someone will find Carson's outcropping, if not already. I'm trying to add all the pertinent information I have.

I have no idea how to tell you where the other marked trees are south of the hairpin. The best advice I have is to stay south of the hairpin at a point where your other choice is to go down east to the creek on the trail you took to the motorcycle. There you will see the tree in the pic I posted above. The tree signs that follow resemble old Spanish markings (swords and 7's, etc) but of course must be somewhat more modern because many of them are on very old dead aspens. It's worth following this path if you can find it.

Back to the Baker Brothers. The drag and engine are on the North side of the southern branch about 200 yards up from the V. You won't miss it. Nearby was a modern blue tarp with a wheel barrow and materials stashed underneath it. I camped up there and metal detected the area. It was on the north branch, south side, that I actually found the oldest bits of historic prospecting.

 

[UncleMatt]

So if someone had a bucket, drag line, and engine up there, exactly how would that have been employed to mine the bank? Forgive my ignorance, is the bucket just dragged across the ground to scrape soil off of granite? How is the bucket returned to the start position after a drag? And I saw no sign of piles of dirt up there at all, so where did the dirt go they had scraped? The only thing I came across was a trench about 8 feet wide and five feet deep, and it didn't even go down to the granite.

I think given the fact that was going on up there that the Baker Seam is a dead issue. They either found it and exploited the seam until it was gone, or they found nothing at all and abandoned the equipment in place. Either way, that means nothing is left up there to find of mineral value.

 

[sdcfia]

So if someone had a bucket, drag line, and engine up there, exactly how would that have been employed to mine the bank? Forgive my ignorance, is the bucket just dragged across the ground to scrape soil off of granite? How is the bucket returned to the start position after a drag? And I saw no sign of piles of dirt up there at all, so where did the dirt go they had scraped? The only thing I came across was a trench about 8 feet wide and five feet deep, and it didn't even go down to the granite.

I think given the fact that was going on up there that the Baker Seam is a dead issue. They either found it and exploited the seam until it was gone, or they found nothing at all and abandoned the equipment in place. Either way, that means nothing is left up there to find of mineral value.

The tugger is usually a double-drum setup. When the power is applied to one drum, the second drum free wheels. The first drum's cable is attached to the front of the bucket and drags it towards the operator. Next, the second drum pulls on a cable that runs to a sheave block (pulley) anchored somewhere behind the bucket and is looped back to the bucket's backside. The bucket moves forward, then backward as first drum one, then drum two are powered. The outfit would need a generator if it was electric, or a compressor if it was air-powered.

Here's what it looks like underground. The ore drops from above into a pile. The slusher bucket drags it towards the operator where it drops into a vertical shaft. Then the bucket is pulled back to the ore pile for another pass. Above ground, the bucket is angled so that it's scraping muck off the ground and leaving it in a pile.