Gridwalker306
Gold Member
I think that the landowner getting 1/3 is fair in this situation.
That know-nothing blowfish Ric Savage wants 80% !!!
That know-nothing blowfish Ric Savage wants 80% !!!
The Offer
- Thread starter Frankn
- Start date
Ammonhotep
Sr. Member
- Apr 21, 2012
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Wish I could have read the whole thread, but I have other volumes to read. I read the first several and the last several pages.
It seems these are the facts:
Frankn has info on a cache.
Frankn will take >33.3% or nothing at all.
Frankn believes that if he gets nothing, neither with the landowner.
Frankn has other, bigger leads to occupy his time.
Frankn has time on his side.
Landowner knows Frankn is interested enough to spend months researching this cache.
In my estimation, Frankn, you need to create the following three conditions in order gain your permission to hunt:
First, you need to get the landowner to relate to you. Fact: doctors with great bedside manners get sued FAR less than doctors with poor bedside manners, despite quality of care. What's this have to do with negotiating? Being personable, or at least appearing so, is everything in negotiations. If there's hostility, you've already lost.
Take the man out to dinner. Meet the wife. Share some crazy stories about family/friends, but also about sweet caches and long, long hours researching in dusty library books. Appeal to his emotional, imaginative side. Be sure to ask about his life. Show him you are a professional, but also a personable fellow. This first point alone could seal your deal.
Second, you need to limit the owner's ulterior solutions. Help him understand that he can't find it without you. You have all the information on how to do that, but make it clear to the landowner. Or help him understand that his ulterior solutions aren't as cost-effective as yours. He is an investor, after all. Assume he's a shrewd man. Convince him that you are his best investment.
Third, you need to create some sense of urgency for the landowner. He doesn't want to keep his 9.5 acre investment property forever, he wants ROI. Figure out when he's going to flip it, develop it, etc. That's important leveraging information, and gives you a timeline. He may also need some kind of expiry date for your offer. Speak his language: let him know this is an investment for you, too, but that you're not hung up on it (read: He can't wait you out because of your sunk cost). Depending on your read, you might also indicate that your offer will depreciate by 3% when you contact him in a year, and that after 11 years the offer will expire. When faced with the long view, people often become more myopic. Hey, you can hope, at least.
If you can do those three things, you'll get the deal you want. If you take my advice, and succeed, then donte 1% to a charity in my name, would you? ;-)
Best of luck, Frankn!
-Ammo
It seems these are the facts:
Frankn has info on a cache.
Frankn will take >33.3% or nothing at all.
Frankn believes that if he gets nothing, neither with the landowner.
Frankn has other, bigger leads to occupy his time.
Frankn has time on his side.
Landowner knows Frankn is interested enough to spend months researching this cache.
In my estimation, Frankn, you need to create the following three conditions in order gain your permission to hunt:
First, you need to get the landowner to relate to you. Fact: doctors with great bedside manners get sued FAR less than doctors with poor bedside manners, despite quality of care. What's this have to do with negotiating? Being personable, or at least appearing so, is everything in negotiations. If there's hostility, you've already lost.
Take the man out to dinner. Meet the wife. Share some crazy stories about family/friends, but also about sweet caches and long, long hours researching in dusty library books. Appeal to his emotional, imaginative side. Be sure to ask about his life. Show him you are a professional, but also a personable fellow. This first point alone could seal your deal.
Second, you need to limit the owner's ulterior solutions. Help him understand that he can't find it without you. You have all the information on how to do that, but make it clear to the landowner. Or help him understand that his ulterior solutions aren't as cost-effective as yours. He is an investor, after all. Assume he's a shrewd man. Convince him that you are his best investment.
Third, you need to create some sense of urgency for the landowner. He doesn't want to keep his 9.5 acre investment property forever, he wants ROI. Figure out when he's going to flip it, develop it, etc. That's important leveraging information, and gives you a timeline. He may also need some kind of expiry date for your offer. Speak his language: let him know this is an investment for you, too, but that you're not hung up on it (read: He can't wait you out because of your sunk cost). Depending on your read, you might also indicate that your offer will depreciate by 3% when you contact him in a year, and that after 11 years the offer will expire. When faced with the long view, people often become more myopic. Hey, you can hope, at least.
If you can do those three things, you'll get the deal you want. If you take my advice, and succeed, then donte 1% to a charity in my name, would you? ;-)
Best of luck, Frankn!
-Ammo
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maipenrai
Bronze Member
- Nov 11, 2010
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Here is something to read, dealing with treasure ownership. The Slow Death of Treasure Trove
OP
OP
Frankn
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #524
ppratt, your ideas defy logic. You left out my partners wife and all our kids LOL. I can see Rick could never get a deal with you.
J Cache, ppratt must have missed you.
Ammo, all good ideas, some have been applied but some can't be done.
Maipenrai, I have read a lot about treasure trove laws. The TH rights are deminishing. There are few finder keeper states left like Delaware. The sea use to be a vast finder keeper situation, now salvage is anything but. That is why most finds of any size that can be hidden are. You don't hear much about the finds, but I believe they are still happening.
J Cache, ppratt must have missed you.
Ammo, all good ideas, some have been applied but some can't be done.
Maipenrai, I have read a lot about treasure trove laws. The TH rights are deminishing. There are few finder keeper states left like Delaware. The sea use to be a vast finder keeper situation, now salvage is anything but. That is why most finds of any size that can be hidden are. You don't hear much about the finds, but I believe they are still happening.
Jason in Enid
Gold Member
- Oct 10, 2009
- 9,593
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There is no cache. This is all just Frankn's way of getting attention, that's why he keeps arguing with everyone.
OP
OP
Frankn
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #526
I found out a while back that jason didn't know what Shinola was. You should see his shoes !
View attachment 637566
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khpony
Sr. Member
- May 29, 2006
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Good Luck!!!
maipenrai
Bronze Member
- Nov 11, 2010
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Just as this thread has got more and more complicated, with every reply; Im just wondering if your land owner will get a bit mixed up with both of you sending emails. If I were him, I would be very suspicious at this time.
He is probably thinking, "well, I didnt take the bait the first time, so now another one is trying." I hope the email was just to set up a meeting, for a face to face, and not telling him that he doesnt deserve more than 1/3.
He is probably thinking, "well, I didnt take the bait the first time, so now another one is trying." I hope the email was just to set up a meeting, for a face to face, and not telling him that he doesnt deserve more than 1/3.
OP
OP
Frankn
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #530
It was a letter and it was an attempt to set up a face to face. I don't know why you say bait. The deal would cost him nothing and there is the possibility of gaining millions. It has all been presented up front with no catches. It's like that Publishers Clearing House thing. I just walk up and hand him millions in cash that he didn't have possesion of before. I can not understand someone not accepting it.
maipenrai
Bronze Member
- Nov 11, 2010
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Frankn, I give up!! Almost everyone that has followed this post, can understand at least some of the land owners thoughts, but you dont understand him at all. He hasnt a clue of who you are, or your partner. He is getting hit now from two different people and do you think he has no reason to be suspicious? You still have the idea that you are the one "giving" him something, from his own land!! As long as you think you are the only one holding the aces, then you are going to come out the loser.
I know what I would think, if someone sent me some emails, and claimed that they would give me millions! NIGERIA!!! I get these emails all the time, and they are deleted as fast as I can hit the delete key.
Since you talk about handing him millions, how are you going to do it? Are you planing on taking all your treasure, and on your own time table, turn it into cash? How long will that take, and what will the land owner be thinking in that time? One year, two years, or ten years? First you take his treasure, then tell him he will have to wait till you sell it, some time in the future. There is not one person in this site that would go for that. And what if you go the "one for you one for me" route, what will he do with his share, and what happens if he is questioned on his new found wealth? The ball will bounce back to you, then what? Maybe the IRS will just ask him to pay his taxes, and tell you that its ok with them, if you keep all of your share? There are many things that must be agreed upon, but since he is already probably suspicious of you two, then I cant see much trust on his side.
I would seriously consider investing another $100 in gas money and go for the 50/50, otherwise it might be 00/100, in his favor.
I know what I would think, if someone sent me some emails, and claimed that they would give me millions! NIGERIA!!! I get these emails all the time, and they are deleted as fast as I can hit the delete key.
Since you talk about handing him millions, how are you going to do it? Are you planing on taking all your treasure, and on your own time table, turn it into cash? How long will that take, and what will the land owner be thinking in that time? One year, two years, or ten years? First you take his treasure, then tell him he will have to wait till you sell it, some time in the future. There is not one person in this site that would go for that. And what if you go the "one for you one for me" route, what will he do with his share, and what happens if he is questioned on his new found wealth? The ball will bounce back to you, then what? Maybe the IRS will just ask him to pay his taxes, and tell you that its ok with them, if you keep all of your share? There are many things that must be agreed upon, but since he is already probably suspicious of you two, then I cant see much trust on his side.
I would seriously consider investing another $100 in gas money and go for the 50/50, otherwise it might be 00/100, in his favor.
OP
OP
Frankn
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #532
Maipenrai. Get serious! You look like a pessimist looking for problems that don't exist. It is in cash as stated before. It will be split immediately. He has already accepted, but stated," It will be 50%", so he doesn't think it is a sham. The orginal corrospondance was a letter outlining the reason for the offer and including my business card. I think you missed quite a few posts.
K
Kentucky Kache
Guest
Frank, if you decide to walk away from this, give me the man's phone #. I'll take the 50/50 split.
ppratt
Sr. Member
I do believe those post are more people telling you, that you are wrong. HHEHEHEHEHEHE I'm loving it. Your getting burned.
maipenrai
Bronze Member
- Nov 11, 2010
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Dont hold your breath KK, he is not giving this up, but the owner might.
Frankn, you are still thinking its YOUR money, and you are doing him a favor. It is HIS money, and you are just showing him where it is. Right or wrong, that is what he may be thinking. Yes I am a bit of a pessimist or realist, but I have read all 27 pages, and all the great ideas like buying the mineral rights, or melting it down and pretending its placer gold, or going around the country from shop to shop, selling here and there, thats why Im a pessimist.
Now, you say you have cash or you will have cash, once its found. If the treasure is in cash, what condition, what age? I took a cache of paper money to the bank once, where I had an account, and it wasnt even that old, but they sure did give me a long look. Buried money, is not the same as money hid in a house, and I am 100% sure about that, and if it is as old as you hinted, then they will be very suspicious, so you better have a good story for them, and anyone else that comes asking.
You asked for opinions and you got um, but we are all wrong, just like the land owner, no one understands!
Frankn, you are still thinking its YOUR money, and you are doing him a favor. It is HIS money, and you are just showing him where it is. Right or wrong, that is what he may be thinking. Yes I am a bit of a pessimist or realist, but I have read all 27 pages, and all the great ideas like buying the mineral rights, or melting it down and pretending its placer gold, or going around the country from shop to shop, selling here and there, thats why Im a pessimist.
Now, you say you have cash or you will have cash, once its found. If the treasure is in cash, what condition, what age? I took a cache of paper money to the bank once, where I had an account, and it wasnt even that old, but they sure did give me a long look. Buried money, is not the same as money hid in a house, and I am 100% sure about that, and if it is as old as you hinted, then they will be very suspicious, so you better have a good story for them, and anyone else that comes asking.
You asked for opinions and you got um, but we are all wrong, just like the land owner, no one understands!
ppratt
Sr. Member
What if it is gold and the owner doesn't want to cash his share in yet? How will you separate his from yours? Will you show the treasure before you remove it? Are you just going to remove it and take the cuts out then show up one day with money in hand? Will he get to agree on the price where your taking it to cash it in? How much say will he have at all if deal is made?
OP
OP
Frankn
Gold Member
- Thread starter
- #537
You guys are unbelievable! You say you read all the posts and then you ask a question that was stated previously. A previous post stated that I think it is in $20 gold coins. Look at the TV. Gold coins are everywhere. I stated that it will be split immediately. That means that he does whatever he wants with his share. By the way, cash can be in any form of government issued money like paper or gold or copper etc.Well it looks like I am down to one believer that sells himself short, One pessimist that is looking hard for flaws, but doesn't remember the posts he has read and one guy that lost the marble game. Looks like we need some fresh ideas on THE OFFER.
K
Kentucky Kache
Guest
By "selling myself short" I would already be looking for that cache, and who knows, maybe would have already found it. Where are YOU on this cache?
MinerGirl
Sr. Member
Hi Frankn...a relative newbie here. I "hear your pain". Its very easy to make all kinds of offers on speculations at the "outset" of a "job" and assume fairness is "assured" etc. As I see it, and no, I didn't read all 26 pages here, but it sounds like you were making offers Before you had a real offer. You "Offered" your new "Partner" something that you never had (no contract set in stone from the landowner?) You assumed the landowner would be "fair"...All the landowner is saying is "I don't care what you do with Your Half, but don't try to "spend" MY Half. Maybe at the time when you brought in the "Partner" you were assuming it'd be 1/3, assuming the landowner would see "fairness" your way...etc. Unfortunately you have to renegotiate with your partner(which will possible tick him off and he'll be crushed) or you'll have to "eat" this Loss.
All you can do is Now say to the landowner that you may have overstepped your bounds by "Just Assuming" things would go a certain way and apologize for any bad feelings it may have created thus far...explain to him that you're now going to take the "Hit" in the pocket. And possibly plant the seed that "Hey, If we find a big haul" MAYBE you can throw us a "Bonus"? Can you at least think about that? I'd really appreciate it and again, This is my fault".
You're at his mercy now and for Gosh Sakes!...don't cut in the "digger kid" for Equal Share..Haha...Next time tell a potential partner "Hey, I'll give you a thousand dollars if you find this within one week...And I'll totally give you a Great Bonus"! Just 'cause you want to give away your side of the store doesn't mean the Landowner wants to.
Just my 2 cents....Good Luck, MinerGirl
All you can do is Now say to the landowner that you may have overstepped your bounds by "Just Assuming" things would go a certain way and apologize for any bad feelings it may have created thus far...explain to him that you're now going to take the "Hit" in the pocket. And possibly plant the seed that "Hey, If we find a big haul" MAYBE you can throw us a "Bonus"? Can you at least think about that? I'd really appreciate it and again, This is my fault".
You're at his mercy now and for Gosh Sakes!...don't cut in the "digger kid" for Equal Share..Haha...Next time tell a potential partner "Hey, I'll give you a thousand dollars if you find this within one week...And I'll totally give you a Great Bonus"! Just 'cause you want to give away your side of the store doesn't mean the Landowner wants to.
Just my 2 cents....Good Luck, MinerGirl
MinerGirl
Sr. Member
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