The Pearl Ship

[Tom_in_CA]

Oroblanco, you said it yourself, that contact was sparodic, accidental, etc.... Yes, stuff has been found here, but not, as you say "on the scale of Roman legions marching around in Illinois", etc... To that example, I would add: "and not on the scale of pearl shipwrecks in the desert". You can't have it both ways.

To be doubtful of legends is not to be un-scientific, close-minded, etc.... True academia doubts - until shown proof. Not a long string of hypothesis of remote possibilities of astronomic odds, to prop up a treasure story that our imagination wants so much to be true.

Another desert legend my grandpa told us kids, when he tucked us in at night, was the legend that camels still roamed the desert, from the days of the Camel experiments of the CW era. You know, the one where the camels were turned loose, escaped, etc.... They contintued on in the desert southwest. Their descendents are still seen, to this day, by lone truckers on dark desert roads, in the middle of the night. But they scamper away before anyone can get their cameras out in time. Durnit! So can you disprove that one? If you try, you are merely close-minded, not open to the possibilities, etc...

 

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[gollum]

Hey Folks,

I guess I should intervene here.

Tom....to be so dismissive of the story without doing the research is a little presumptuous of you.

While you do know the history of the Salton Sink pretty well, you haven't given much time to looking into the other side of the story.

I will throw in what I have learned about this, because since I live in SoCal, and spend much of my time tramping around the area from Borrego Springs to Jacumba, I have done a fair amount of research on the subject.

Tom,
If you do a little research, you will find that the Spanish kept very accurate records of EVERYTHING they did. When a Commander of three ships loses two of them on a journey, there was (and still is) an Admiralty Inquest to determine the reason for the loss and the Commander's fitness to be given a new ship.

In this case Captain Iturbide's Trial was held in Acapulco. Acapulco was the Major Port for the Spanish since before it was so-named in about 1528. Transcripts of that trial are still in existence in both Acapulco and Mexico City. This story was not something someone just made up. It was taken directly from the testimony of Captain Iturbide and the remaining few of his crew who survived the voyage.

I haven't devoted much time to this story, because there's no payoff in it. When I first started looking into it, I found someone who had access to the Admiralty Records in Mexico City (an old friend who worked at the University of Mexico ). He couldn't remove them to photocopy, but verified the story (for the most part). While researching, I found an article about pearls' lifespans in acidic environments. After reading the article, I pretty much lost interest in the story because.... As acidic as the ground is in the area, any pearls would have dissolved long ago. I moved on to other treasure stories that had a basis in fact (there are lots).

Best,

Mike

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Mike, to that I would answer that I also group the inquest, trial, transcripts, etc.... in the same legend category. If you will notice, in this part of the story, the transcripts supposedly still in Mexico City & Acapulco are there. But of course, no one's ever seen them, or could copy them, etc..... (durnit) Don't you get it? Travel to anywhere in Mexico, and you'll hear similar stories everywhere! I did just that: kept hearing stories up here in Salinas, CA (where there's lots of mexican immigrants) of treasures back in Mexico. Once my Spanish speaking employees learned that my hobby was detecting, they would tell me the stories of treasures that were sure to be buried back in their remote villages of Mexico. Finally, after a few years of this, I took the plunge. In the early 1990s, I traveled down there, to various parts of Mexico, but primarily to high in the Sierra Madres. Houses there are 300+ yrs. old, and the Spanish mined for gold in the region. Legend and Lore are still everywhere about buried treasures.

At first, I'd ask my host/interpreter "what are we looking for, and what is the basis of the story?" The stories were pretty full-proof. Much like the Pearl Ship type stuff, where written documents were there, but that they just didn't happen to be right here handy, to be looked at first-hand. Or, "So & so had seen the treasure get buried when they were just a little kid, but the federales ushered the kids away and told them never to come back" or "pancho Villa passed through here, and it is known that he buried treasure in so & so's backyard, because their great great grandma passed this story down to the current generation". In each case, there was always something seemingly full-proof, where it was actually seen, or individual coins had been found, and the motherload was sure to be just a few foot away, easy to find with a detector.

As the weeks dragged on, I dug thousands of targets from remote ruins. Even found some coins (solo coins) from as far back as the mid 1800s. Got age indicators, that I recognized from hunting CA mission era sites, that dated to the 1600 & 1700s. But no caches to be found. Anytime we didn't find a treasure, the person who led us to a site, was simply convinced that it was not a matter of there NOT being a treasure there, but simply that the machine didn't go deep enough :P Trash EVERYWHERE. No matter how remote you go in Mexico, trash abounds. They have no curb-side service, so Mexicans just take their trash to the edge of town, the nearest gully, to an abandoned ruins, etc... and just dump it. In all back-yards, that look seemingly clean, they are a non-stop signal of solid trash, cans, foil, car parts, etc... etc... Reason is? They bury and burn their trash, and also usually keep (or kept in the old days) chickens, pigs, etc... in their backyards, and would feed the animals scraps from the household trash. Hence aluminum cr*p everywhere. But we forged on, trying to find the most remote ruins, that would be free of modern trash. We tried every cave that locals would tell us they believed treasure was in. We tried every time someone came up with these great stories of treasures.

Finally my curiousity got the better of me. In one of the instances of someone coming to ask us to use our detector at their house, d/t they knew there was treasure there, I began to ask a few more questions that normal. In this story, coins had supposedly been found, while workers installed a tile flooring years earlier. I asked if I could see some of the coins. But of course, the coins were around anymore. When pressed for more info on the coins, it morphed from "I saw them firsthand", to "well..... the worker told me he found them, but that he had to give them to his boss". to "well, this is just what my little sister told me, after she woke up from a dream, where she'd seen a fire in the corner" (they believe fumes and fires are signs of buried gold).

So you see how superstition reigns down there? You will never get your Captain Iturbide's Trial papers/archives. Either it doesn't exist, and is just part of the lore, from well-meaning people. Or if you do find something, it won't have anything like you were led to believe it has (durnit). Sorry to be a kill-joy, but I've been there/done that.

Towards the end of our trip to Mexico, we got to where we refused to look for any treasures that had anything to do with visions of the virgin mary, fire in the corners, ghosts, or simply anything where it was "someone who told someone who told someone who told someone, who told someone" type of thing. We would only hunt first-hand stuff, where evidence was concrete. Or simply hunt random ruins, with no particular treasure stories.

 

[gollum]

Hey Tom,

I know what you mean, and for the most part agree wholeheartedly. I had an acquaintance I worked with tell me about his grandmother's ranch near Guadalajara. He told me about how his little cousin had ridden a bike into a column in the courtyard, and knocked a brick loose. Behind the brick was an old leather pouch with some coins in it. He actually had one of the coins and let me have it to get authenticated. Here is the coin:

Here is a known example of an authentic coin (and this one shows a little wear):

It's a 4 escudo gold piece. It was in such perfect condition, I thought it was a fake. A few of my coin dealer friends thought it was a very good fake (had the proper gold content). A Beverly Hills Rare Coin Dealer gave me the scoop on it. Louis I took the throne in 1724, and died nine months later, ceding the throne back to his father (Philip V). All of the Louis I minted coins are exceedingly rare. As far as I know experts are still arguing about it's authenticity. If real, it's value is phenomenal. One of the main reasons for some of the dealers doubting it's authenticity, was the location of the find, as Guadalajara is a major source of counterfeit coins coming out of Mexico.

While a lot of Mexican Treasure Stories are fictitious (just like a lot of the Yama$hita Treasure Stories in the Phillipines). Much of what you find in Mexico has a lot to do with whom you know there, whether or not they tell you any of the real stories, or are just trying to get money out of you. My source for the trial transcripts is a family friend who actually went out of his way to do me the favor of looking into the subject. He wasn't paid, and had no interest in the subject. I have NO reason to doubt the veracity of anything he told me.

First of all, not just anybody can get access to historical archives. When you do get access, you have to know exactly what you are looking for. When the observer assigned to you brings out the appropriate record, it cannot be touched by human hands (white gloves). They will not allow it to be placed on a photocopier. I don't know if they allow photography yet, but didn't used to. For the longest time, the only way you could get a copy was to have someone manually transcribe it for you.

I could tell you about several current treasure recoveries South of the Border (my avatar was Phase I of one of them). Anything currently underway is highly confidential (everybody is afraid of both the Mexican Government and Gangsters).

I'm sorry that you had bad experiences down there. It's best to get someone like Real de Tayopa (Jose) to trust you. He could introduce you to people down there with AUTHENTIC stories that would curl your toenails (you just have to bring toilet paper to feed his burro) :-) :-) .

Best,

Mike

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Mike, not saying there's no treasures down there, nor that none have been found. Sure, treasures have been found thre. They've also been found here in the USA too - with a lot less trash and superstition to wade through. I'm just saying that most every Mexican has stories of "for sure" treausures, that surely abound in every back yard and cave. Stories get embellished and passed around, and before you know it, it's just taken as fact.

I break the Mexican treasure lore into 2 categories: The ones you can dismiss right away, because they are based on stuff like: a) visions or dreams b) glowing lights or flames coming from a spot in the hills (that the guy saw after drinking too much tequila probably ) c) sparkles coming from a spot in the ground they passed while on a hike d) anyone where someone told some who told someone who told someone, etc.... e) anything to do with Pancho Villa or any of the many revolutions in Mexico's past.

But then there's the class of stories which involve things that are supposedly NOT superstition/rumor based. Things like a) a corrupt official who died, with an unaccounted for amount of money missing from their estate (which surely, therefore, they must've buried for safe-keeping, since old Mexico had no banks), b) a rich store owner who all the neighbor's knew had $$, yet died unepexted, before he could inform his next of kin where he'd stashed $$, c) loose coins washed out of a cliffside after a storm, which probably came from a broken cache, and the motherload is just waiting to be found.

And them some cross-over semi-rumor types, where someone , who when they were 4 yrs. old, (now middle-aged) saw the neighbor digging a hole in the middle of the night, so they were probably burying a treasure. Or things like loose coins found under a floor while prepping for tile work, so certainly more must be there, since detectors are superior to the ones accidentally eye-balled by workers. My response to all of these, is that when you press the story-teller for his basis for these "facts", (which, who can dispute the story of rich store owner at turn of the century?) is that, invariably, this is something that the person telling, was told themselves, by someone who surely would know. There is no "proof" other than the story you are being told. So whereas it evades the obvious superstition category, it is only something they are being told, or is something that maybe they themselves were supposedly witness to, yet so long ago, and under so much cultural bias, that they simply start to believe it must be connected to a treasure.

As for the coin pix, and the story of the boy whose bike hit the wall, and out popped the bag of coins: I too had similar stories. In each case, I would ask to see the coins, but then the story morphs into how they were seen, but they were currently in someone else's hands, who also doesn't have them anymore. Then it morphs into "well, this is what I was told, even though both me and them didn't actually see the coins. You have overcome that hurdle by actually handling the coin you have. Bravo! to get this far is rare. But I would answer that with this: If you were to actually talk to the boy (hypothetically), my hunch is that the story would change. He got it, like you say, as a replica, and the story was born that it was found hidden in a wall. Or, it was actually his friend down the street, who found in the wall, and ... since they are friends, it's fair to say that "they" found it, and so on and so forth, and before you know it, no one really knows whose bike it was, what wall it was, etc.... I'm not saying they "lie", but that they (or the person telling you the bike story) just begin to accept things as fact. It's just the culture down there. Why do you think that LRL's sell like hotcakes down there? Because they're scientific? Of course not, it's because they believe anything they read, when it has to do with treasure.

Sorry, but I still don't think any pearl ship transcripts exist. Your friend may have started to look at something (he couldn't photo it, handle it, and even didn't have time to transcribe it - durnit), and, based on the results you told him to look for (evidence of the pearl coverup thingy), he naturally morphs any secrecy into "aha, they are HIDING something", lest the public learn of the secret treasure! This mentality is so evident in the UFO craze. No matter how compelling the evidence is to explain something mysterious, UFO advocates will rely on any info they CAN'T find, as certain proof that the govt. is hiding info. Or if the paperwork info WAS seen by someone, it was lost, or was taken away from them before they could duplicate it, or they lost it, etc...

I mean, how is this transcript in Mexico City stuff, any different than all the stories of starving indians or miners who crawl into town, tell the story of fabulous riches, and then die before being able to give the final clue? Or the cowboy who sees a ship, or treasure, or whatever, goes back to civilization with the intent of launching the recovery effort. But then "wouldn't you know it!", he goes back, but can't find the canyon (durnit), or a storm or earthquake covered the entrance, and now it's unrecognizable indistinct form the entire mountain range (durnit). C'mon, eventually you have to sort out facts, and fanciful legends.

 

[gollum]

Hey Tom,

I agree for the most part, although you have to be careful about some of those Category 1 stories. Most of the peasants in Mexico (or many other parts of the world for that matter) will jump to the occult or paranormal to explain something that goes beyond their limited experience or education. There may still be some kernels of truth behind many of those whacky tales (it's just harder to weed through the chaff to get to the wheat).

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA about the LRLs. They sell just as well in the good old USA as they down South! Go to ebay and find the Ranger Tell Examiners, and see how many the guy sells, and at what price! HILARIOUS! LRLs and MFDs and the like are all a joke. Go to Carl Moreland's website: www.thunting.com, and check out the section on LRLs and MFDs. You will laugh your ass off when you see his pictures of their inner workings.

As far as the family friend who looked up the trial transcripts, he is a Professor of Engineering, and holds PhDs in both Electrical and Chemical Engineering. Not a guy prone to flights of fancy.

Now, how did what I posted make you feel that their is/was some kind of cover up going on that was UFO-like in nature? You lost me there. I simply meant that those artifacts were about 400 years old, and they don't let just anybody access them, and when they do, they are VERY careful about how they are handled. Same thing with the Spanish Archives in Spain, or the Church Archives in Rome (The Vatican and Jesuit Archives).

Best,

Mike

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Mike, thanx for the LRL link. I'll go look it up. As for the UFO analogy, yeah perhaps it was lacking. Just trying to make the point that.... whereas you, for whatever reason, didn't see the archives/transcripts (yet they are "sure" to be there), so too does it sound when you hear of the UFO folks who try, or try to send friends, to access govt. air-force records, are re-buffed, for whatever reason.

Sure, some stuff is only handled in white-gloves. I work with archies and docent at museums, and am familiar with file stuff that never finds its way into history books/general public. But no matter the reason you or I can't access it, doesn't necessarily mean we can prop up any treasure story, by "arguements from silence" that "surely, these un-seen/in-accesible records would show".

 

[Isayhello2u]

just updated the wikipedia list with several more newspaper accounts

the articles of interest to this group
(although I have not read them...yet so could be fiction or a reference to a fictional book)
I would think are from the Chillicothe constitution tribune of April 6th, 8th & 9th 1949
*Story of a Murder involving an 18th Century Spanish treasure galleon, which sailed up the flooded colorado river in 1744, with mentions of a cipher with directions to a lost spanish treasure

 

[Isayhello2u]

oops forgot to add link

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Ship_of_the_Desert#1900.27s

 

[gollum]

Mike, thanx for the LRL link. I'll go look it up. As for the UFO analogy, yeah perhaps it was lacking. Just trying to make the point that.... whereas you, for whatever reason, didn't see the archives/transcripts (yet they are "sure" to be there), so too does it sound when you hear of the UFO folks who try, or try to send friends, to access govt. air-force records, are re-buffed, for whatever reason.

Sure, some stuff is only handled in white-gloves. I work with archies and docent at museums, and am familiar with file stuff that never finds its way into history books/general public. But no matter the reason you or I can't access it, doesn't necessarily mean we can prop up any treasure story, by "arguements from silence" that "surely, these un-seen/in-accesible records would show".

Hey Tom,

The records are there for ANYBODY to see. I actually told my guy who to contact, and he took the reigns from there. If you go to Mexico City, you can see the records too.

Take for instance Jesuit Mining Operations in Primeria Alta. The Spanish Archives have ZERO records of any such thing happening. The Jesuits will deny that they had ANY mining operations in the New World. The eminent Father Polzer SJ was a great archiver of the history of the Jesuits in the New World. He stated many times uncategorically that the Jesuits never mined a thing in the New World. The great majority of people who have ANY knowledge on the subject, mostly agree that the Jesuits never mined a thing here. BUT..................

There are these (40% Gold and 60% Silver Assayed):

Not a very good pic, but I am getting a package later of better pics. I will start a thread about them after I have received everything. I have been asked to broker the sale of these two gold/silver ingots. According to the owner, they have several sources of verification of their authenticity (Smithsonian, Sotheby's, a national coin historian, and several others). The existence of these two ingots proves that all the denials by the Spanish Government, The Church, and the Jesuit Order were not true. These bars have been in the owner's family for a long time, and the current owner has been heavily researching their authenticity for about 25 years. He has obtained records from museums, copies of Padre Kino's and Padre Manje's Travel Diaries, which talk about visiting Mission Mines, and a ton more documentation, but it all had to be backdoored. He started with the bars, and collected the documentation along the way (it helped that he has a Cardinal in his family to open some doors for him). Don't discount treasure stories just because there is no easily obtainable documentation.

Best,

Mike

 

[Tom_in_CA]

gollum, in your initial post, about your friend, about his reading these pearl-desert ship records:

"I found someone who had access to the Admiralty Records in Mexico City (an old friend who worked at the University of Mexico ). He couldn't remove them to photocopy, but verified the story (for the most part)."

At first it sounded like only elitist academia could browse them. Now it's "anyone". And not to 'diss your friend, but I still doubt it says what you think. I notice you say, for instance "for the most part". I encountered this again and again in Mexico: "The records are there! this treasure story is bullet-proof", etc... But they always fizzle. Like, I bet the "proof" your friend says he read is that maybe there was a dude by that name, or maybe there was a pearl ship lost, blah blah. But it will not say "out in the desert next to the Colorado River".

This is still a matter of "so & so told so & so, that he saw such and such, which told of so & so... " etc.... Just like all the lost dutchman mine stuff.

Not sure what your ingots have to do with the pearl ship legend?

and "lack of documentation" is only part of my doubt about the legend. The simple geographical impossibilities are the bigger issue.

Hey, here's a thought: when the salton sea was formed in 1905-06, the first thought was that it would simply dry back up. But of course, agriculture was getting started, and runoff has kept it replenished ever since, right? Well how about this: IF it were not for ag. runoff, can science say for sure, how long it would take for the salton sea to dry up, if left to natural forces? You know the legend gives odd-ball places like "east or west of Brawley", etc... So that is one BIG sea, right?

We know that maps and records tell us that at least in the 1600 to 1700s, the colorado river, the desert, etc... was in it's present condition. Ie.: no sea then, right? So if you can say that in the 1500s, there HAD been a sea there, can science say that in 100 to 200 yrs, it would evaporate totally?

I know there is prehistoric indian "fish traps" (rock groins to trap fish that swim into shallows) that have been found on the shores of what had been a lake there in the salton sink. But I believe those are considered to be prehistoric early indian things, not as recent as the 1500s.

 

[gollum]

Playing at semantics are we Tom? When I say 'for the most part", I mean that the Admiralty Records support the basic premise of the story (that there were three galleons whose mission was to sail up the West Coast, and beg, trade, or steal anything of value they could find. A bad storm blew up, causing one of the galleons to sink. The remaining two ran into the Sea of Cortez for shelter. One sailed inland past the already documented Laguna Salada, leaving the other behind. Water level dropped. Ship ran aground. Crew hiked back to the Sea of Cortez. Not too many survivors. Last ship sailed back to Acapulco, with what remained of their treasure. A trial was held to determine the reason Iturbide lost two ships. The testimony of Iturbide and the called witnesses is on record. THAT is what I mean by "for the most part" There are many details as to the location of the beached ship, quantities of pearls aboard, a small chest of gold that is said to be aboard. THOSE are the things that aren't verified by the Spanish Admiralty Records.

At first it sounded like only elitist academia could browse them.

Actually, it used to be like that. There are still many places where you can't get access to historical documents unless you have a valid (to the museum docent or archive secretary) reason. Many of them have realized that they can charge a fee for having the docent (or a college student in the case of the Arizona Mining and Minerals Museum) stand there and assist you. A great boon for their ever dwindling funds.

CHRIST! Don't start on the Lost Dutchman subject! That's another 100 years argument in the making!

The Kino Gold/Silver Bars are relevant because you seem disheartened by your bad experiences in Mexico, and it seems that if you don't have documented evidence sitting in front of you, you will dismiss any treasure story. I am just showing you that in many cases, evidences that prove facts in different treasure stories have been stolen and/or destroyed to prevent future THers from finding something which was hidden (the Lost Dutchman Mine is a great example of that. There have been SOOOOO many fake rock carvings made, and old well known monuments destroyed by old Dutch Hunters, nobody will ever likely find the LDM unless by accident). All evidence of Jesuit Mining Activities has been completely denied by the Jesuits, but stories handed down over the years from Yaqui, Papago, Opatas, and Mexican families state that their ancestors were the ones who worked the mines for the Spanish and the Jesuits. (SEE WHERE I'M GOING WITH THIS?) If you had only heard the story from a Yaqui Grandfather, and couldn't find any documentation to back up his story you would dismiss it. The ingots prove that Jesuit Missions DID own mines, but there is still precious little documentation to back it up. In the case of the Jesuits, they purposefully hid all evidence of their mining in 1767, when the Indians (who hated the Spanish but liked the Jesuits) warned them about the Spanish rounding up all the Jesuits. They had 6-8 weeks before the Spanish could get all the way up into Primeria Alta. So.....no records. Just family stories. They turn out to be true.

Best,

Mike

 

[Oroblanco]

Greetings friends,

You have covered a lot of ground, and I cannot hope to address everything raised. Tom, sorry to hear how badly your treasure hunting efforts went in old Mexico. It is easy to get a negative attitude toward much of treasure lore after such disappointing experiences. I would hope that you recall the massive amounts of treasure shipped out of Mexico and the Americas by the Spanish, involving shiploads of silver and gold as well as bushels of jewels including pearls. The booty from a single one of these ships is an enormous treasure today - look at what has been recovered from the Atocha for one example (hundreds of millions of dollars!) and remember that this treasure had to come from the land - including Mexico. The amount of lost treasure (documented) in Mexico on dry land, still unrecovered, is so much it would stretch your credibility.

Could an inland sea in the Salton Sink evaporate in only 100 or 200 years? Without fresh infusions of water, the loss of water through evaporation and absorption (into the ground) is likely to have erased any flood in a remarkably short time. Remember that even Iturbide noticed how much the water had receded in a matter of days! The historic floods of the Salton Sink covered much more land area than is currently covered by the Salton Sink, which continues to exist but remember it is getting some water feed from the human beings who have homes and cottages around the lake today. Here in Arizona, there are a number of dry lakes that were NOT dry 100 years ago, and only a short drive from my home is the Willcox Playa, a vast dry lake that becomes a water lake every monsoon season, only to vanish in a matter of months every year.

The mention of camels is a point I would like to address, since you have chosen that particular "legend" as one of the type that cannot be proven NOT to exist, here is a quote:

According to historians, the last wild camel in Arizona was captured in 1946 and the last reported sighting of a wild camel in North America was in Baja California in 1956.

(from http://www.azcentral.com/travel/visitor/oddballaz/articles/0803hijolly-CR.html)

That there were indeed wild camels running around in Arizona is an extablished fact, and they persisted at least until 1946 - so the stories of people having seen them at least up to that point are very likely TRUE.

The comparison to UFO "believers" and failed attempts to see files may not be helpful here, however I would add a little 'tale' to this:

A fellow who lived in the Sangre de Cristo mountains of Colorado reported seeing UFOs during thunderstorms. He said the UFOs were coming down and landing on the mountains, and when he went to investigate the landing sites later, he found a burned spot and a disc of gold at each site! He sold the gold and used the money to purchase a new house.

The UFOs he was seeing during thunderstorms might well have been simple cases of ball lightning, and the mountains in Colorado are famous for their numerous veins of precious metals. It seems logical that lightning might well strike one of these veins if it were near-surface, with the intense heat causing gold present in the rock to melt and "puddle" into a cone-shaped disc. (Forgot to mention that his gold discs were also cone or funnel shaped. Lightning striking sand can form interesting cones of melted sand/natural glass) The lucky fellow who thought space brothers were leaving him gold was simply finding a purely natural phenomenon, but you can see how such seemingly "paranormal" or even fantasy reports can originate from REAL, if poorly-understood or misidentified but NATURAL phenomena - even to finding discs of gold left behind by space brothers who only visited during thunderstorms. So when a Mexican peasant reports that he saw lights dancing around a spot on the ground, it might well be an indicator of precious metals in the earth below - though dur to NATURAL conditions, not supernatural.

I am reminded of the ancient Greek historian Herodotus, who reported a tall tale of "gold digging ants" in the farthest regions of Asia - a tale which led to his being branded a liar and worse. The tale he told is very likely a case of misinterpretation - for the "ants" had skins, no ants have furry skins, and burrowing creatures do in fact bring up bits of gold and silver - we need only to look to Colorado again to find an example (remember how gold was discovered near Breckinridge? A cowboy found a nugget on a prairie dog mound!)

Sorry for the long discourse and for drifting so far off-subject. I am also sorry that you have been so discouraged friend Tom - I hope you and Mike find the treasures that you seek.

Roy ~ Oroblanco

 

[xplror]

right on oroblanco--the salton sea has been full of water many times in the past, as a result of monsoons and flooding. the colorado has also flowed through it from time to time,in 1912 there were ice flows from the northern mtn in the colorado in the river in july. i doubt that there is any treasure on the pearl as the crew would have carried it off and possibly cached what they could not carry. the other thing is that the pearl was a small shallow draft vessel- its not as though there is a full sized spanis gallion there. my best guess put it either in the superstition hill by el centro or south of the border in the vast mud flats somewhere.good luck

 

[gollum]

Hey Xplror,

Actually, it was a full size galleon. There were three. One lost in the Pacific. One aground near Borrego Springs. The third made it back to Acapulco. There were not very many survivors of the Borrego Springs Ship. Not likely to have cached it either.

I do believe the ship is there somewhere.

Funny, I was out there this morning. Here is a nice shot of the Santa Rosa Mountains from the Eastern Side of the Salton Sea:

And here is a beautiful shot this morning of Sunrise Over the Chocolate Mountains:

Best,

Mike

 

[Skifisher]

Wow what a thread. Years ago I did some research on this, and even wandered the deserts some. I feel it is very possible that a ship could be out there, and am willing to look for it. Once the weather cools down, (Oct-Nov?), I would like to spend a week or so searching an area where I think it may be, if it does exsist. Anyone serious about this? maybe we could meet up and cover different areas. About ten years ago I came across a photo of an item that came off of a ship and had an old pinion pine or mesquite growing thru it. I can't find the photo for the life of me , but I remember the area where it was taken. So thats where I would start looking.

Paul

 

[xplror]

nice pictures-the chocolates have some nice gold in them- if u dont mind dodging bombs . going down that way when it cools off. checking on a few things.

 

[pegleglooker]

Hey,
I think I found it in the Salton sea....hehehehehe

 

[gollum]

I just came across this letter in the June 1969 True Treasure Magazine:

"I enjoyed the Al Masters article in the February True Treasure concerning the lost Spanish ship in the Imperial Valley.

This brought to mind a story I heard in Tucson years ago of a traveler who saw an old Indian Woman putting food into an odd-looking dish. The woman said her father had found the dish in an old ship in the sand hills.

The traveler bought the dish. After cleaning, an inscription was legible and traced through the Spanish Minister of Marine, who informed him that it was from a ship which disappeared during the Spanish exploration period.

Seven or eight years ago, I saw an article in a magazine stating that a group of men had set out from San Bernardino in search of that ship in the 1870s. I wrote to the San Bernardino Chamber of Commerce who referred my letter to an editor of the San Bernardino Sun.

This gentleman, Mr. L.B. Belden, wrote me that an old Indian woman had told a man named O.J. Fisk that at one time, the ship was visible from the Santa Rosas North of Julian, on the West side of the sink and East of Kane Spring.

H.D. Lindsey
Klamath Falls, Oregon"

Interesting!

Best-Mike

 

[pegleglooker]

ok,
I'm alittle confused.... how can you be west of the sink AND east of Kane springs Am I wrong I have Kane springs just south and barely west of the Salton sea... SW of the mudpots.