The Treasure Gods have smiled down on me again!!

[MD Dog]

I think Phipps is referring to post #21 #23

 

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[mad4wrecks]

Posts 21 and 23 are truthful accurate! I don't see how they can be construed as an attack on Phips.

Actually I think Phips was referring to Skimmer, who posts were deleted and who is not in any way associated with Aquatic Research & Recovery Group (ARRG Inc)


Tom

 

[jeff of pa]

I think Phipps is referring to post #21 #23

I don't see any Accusations Above.

At least I Hope Those are not Accusations.

I would take it as that he is Surprised Phipps found them there.
But Believes he Did.

Because I'm sure the AARG Team who are very Respected,
Know Accusations are Dealt with
Swiftly & If Repeated Harshly

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Please let me be clear that I am not offering the following information to start up more debate on this thread... just wanted to make one more point in support of myself and my finds... it was brought to my attention by one of my best friends that there is a reference in a book about the 1715 Fleet and it supports my emerald find so I decided to post it here.

In the book, "Florida's Golden Galleons" by Robert Burgess & Carl Clausen, on page 152, paragraph 2, there are references to well known treasure hunter Richard MacAllister working the Colored Beach site and I quote, "Paralleling the shore were three wormrock reefs, the shallowest inshore less than a foot from the surface."

Hello Phipps. Does this latest quote mean that you did indeed find this emerald on the Colored Beach site? Of course you do NOT have to reveal the location but you have said several contradicting statements about the location. You state that you were not surprised to find another emerald because all your emeralds come from the same location but you stated your previous find was from Jupiter. I have been afraid to ask. I hope Im not out of line but Im sure your fans would like an explanation. ...We all would like to know. 8)

Although I am excited to find it, it came up in the same place as all of my previous 1715 Fleet emeralds so it wasn't really a surprise. However, it was nice to find it without having to sift for hours this time!

 

[PhipsFolly]

jeff of pa... I noticed that all of the negative comments have been deleted & I appreciate your efforts to clear things up and keep the peace. As I was stating in my last post, I was merely putting in some final info from a friend... info that would help clear up any doubts that may be out there that I did anything unethical or unprofessional in claiming that my emerald finds came from the area I mentioned.

bigcypresshunter... your efforts to display the ebay auction showing an emerald for sale in an attempt to back up skimmers negative posts was not appreciated, but at this point, it really doesn't matter. As for me changing my story several times, I have not done so. I recovered an emerald concreted in a conglomerate with a ships spike in the area of the Jupiter wreck a while back. I also recovered some musketballs and numerous other spikes from the same location. That was an entirely different find (and post) than the emeralds I recovered from the beach in the Colored Beach area.

Out of the kindness of my heart, I relayed the fact that I was finding some emeralds in the area of the "Nieves" wreck... I didn't have to divulge that and regret now that I did. However, unless you know exactly where to look, they are really difficult to find so i'm not too worried. Besides, there have been emeralds found in numerous other areas as I mentioned in previous posts so just go out and hunt... there's treasure all over the place! Just do your "homework" and get to the right place at the right time.

Phips

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

jeff of pa... I noticed that all of the negative comments have been deleted & I appreciate your efforts to clear things up and keep the peace. As I was stating in my last post, I was merely putting in some final info from a friend... info that would help clear up any doubts that may be out there that I did anything unethical or unprofessional in claiming that my emerald finds came from the area I mentioned.

bigcypresshunter... your efforts to display the ebay auction showing an emerald for sale in an attempt to back up skimmers negative posts was not appreciated, but at this point, it really doesn't matter. As for me changing my story several times, I have not done so. I recovered an emerald concreted in a conglomerate with a ships spike in the area of the Jupiter wreck a while back. I also recovered some musketballs and numerous other spikes from the same location. That was an entirely different find (and post) than the emeralds I recovered from the beach in the Colored Beach area.

Out of the kindness of my heart, I relayed the fact that I was finding some emeralds in the area of the "Nieves" wreck... I didn't have to divulge that and regret now that I did. However, unless you know exactly where to look, they are really difficult to find so i'm not too worried. Besides, there have been emeralds found in numerous other areas as I mentioned in previous posts so just go out and hunt... there's treasure all over the place! Just do your "homework" and get to the right place at the right time.

Phips

Thanks for the explanation. It helps explain some contradictions in your statements, that didnt sit right with me.

As far as backing Skimmer or taking sides, I am not. I have no idea either way whether you find is genuine or not. He expressed his opinion. I have no opinion at this time. I only posted the e-Bay link so members would not have to search for it.
If you really want to clear this up, get it appraised. Im curious what the museum had to say. My advice (I know you dont want it) would be not to sell this one so quickly. Sit on it and enjoy it for a while.

 

[rgecy]

Jeff,

I think the post have been deleted that were the main concern.

Phips,

I hope you can see past some of the negative issues that have come up and see that incidents like this will almost always occur sometime or another. I don't like to see anyone leave the forum over stuff like this.

I have enjoyed your post on your emerald finds and like I said before, I am always looking for them myself. Haven't found any yet!

I think it is hard to dispute any find along the Treasure Coast (within reason), when who really knows whats out there waiting to be found. Look at the 69 carat emerald found last spring. There was tons of contraband on ships that wrecked up and down the coast, and there most certainly were emeralds being smuggled.

Good luck!

RGecy

 

[mauijim1]

Phip's,
I totally enjoyed your post, please don't stop, I look forward to the next find!

 

[siz3petite]

Beautiful

That's amazing and incredibly beautiful. Thanks for sharing that photo. Congrats.

 

[AMorgan]

I've wondered the same thing. However, geological time is often measured by the depth of a layer or strata from the surface. All the emeralds were deposited 300 years ago, and all would be at the same depth. That conglomerate builds up slowly, so my guess is that you won't find much deeply embedded. Besides, once the "rock" gets too big, wave action won't move it...not enough surface area relative to the mass.

Take it from a geologist... Storms can disturb sediments up to 3 or 4 meters below the current sand level. 300 years is a blink, and a large storm could scour the entire contents of a wreck if the conditions are right.

Alan Morgan
B.S. Geology
M.S. Geosciences
Currently employed as a Geophysicist

 

[AMorgan]

i had sent a thread here to help phips out about the descrepancy of the value of the so called' found' gem. did it get deleted?
what happened to 'free speech'? doesn't apply here?
still think the rock should be qualified by a gemologist as to value and have it posted here with the name of the gemologist..then there would be no more contoversy. want to delete this too?
fortunate....ahh yes, the first amendment...it only applies when the powers that be want it to apply....yes, we are truely free....lol

You may be amazed as to what a person would pay for a shipwreck emerald. My experience with gemologists is that they could confirm that it either is or isnt an emerald, determine its clarity and not much else. The fact that this stone is captured in matrix (which could be examined) literally sets its provenance in stone. If the stone is secure in the matrix and not removed, I would say that the value could easily be 10 times the normal going price of a shipwreck emerald of the same color/clarity.

We do live in a free market system... If you dont feel that this item is as valuable as someone else is saying, fine... if there is demand for this item it will sell for whatever price the market will bear.

Alan

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Jeff,

I think it is hard to dispute any find along the Treasure Coast (within reason), when who really knows whats out there waiting to be found. Look at the 69 carat emerald found last spring. There was tons of contraband on ships that wrecked up and down the coast, and there most certainly were emeralds being smuggled.

Good luck!

RGecy

Yes, RGecy, but finding 2 similar emeralds, embedded in conglomerate in the same manner, on two totally separate beaches, obviously two totally different wrecks, in such a short time period, was incredible luck. In Phipps words, the gods have smiled down on him...

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

You may be amazed as to what a person would pay for a shipwreck emerald. My experience with gemologists is that they could confirm that it either is or isnt an emerald, determine its clarity and not much else. The fact that this stone is captured in matrix (which could be examined) literally sets its provenance in stone. If the stone is secure in the matrix and not removed, I would say that the value could easily be 10 times the normal going price of a shipwreck emerald of the same color/clarity.
Alan

Wow, Phipps should give you a percentage. The strain and mine that it came from can be determined. I remember an Emerald found near the Margarita was tested. I will look for the link.



Science magazine reports that a new method of isotope analysis has revealed the secret origins of emeralds, once seen as a symbol of eternity and power. The method takes advantage of the fact that every mine produces gemstones with a unique oxygen isotope ratio. These gemstone fingerprints have pinpointed the origins of emeralds in historic treasures, which has until this time been a mystery.
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s95905.htm

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

OK, I found a link on it. http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/052303/met_12615617.shtml

This is the famous Emerald that fell out of a conch shell. Tested it came from a mine in Brazil and not from Columbia, as expected. For that reason it was expected only to fetch $20,000 at auction. "If the emerald to be auctioned tomorrow were a top quality Colombian emerald, Fisher said, it would be worth about $18,000 a carat, or $723,600." When someone is willing to pay that much for it you gotta expect some scrutiny.

 

[AMorgan]

You may be amazed as to what a person would pay for a shipwreck emerald. My experience with gemologists is that they could confirm that it either is or isnt an emerald, determine its clarity and not much else. The fact that this stone is captured in matrix (which could be examined) literally sets its provenance in stone. If the stone is secure in the matrix and not removed, I would say that the value could easily be 10 times the normal going price of a shipwreck emerald of the same color/clarity.
Alan

Wow, Phipps should give you a percentage. The strain and mine that it came from can be determined. I remember an Emerald found near the Margarita was tested. I will look for the link.



Science magazine reports that a new method of isotope analysis has revealed the secret origins of emeralds, once seen as a symbol of eternity and power. The method takes advantage of the fact that every mine produces gemstones with a unique oxygen isotope ratio. These gemstone fingerprints have pinpointed the origins of emeralds in historic treasures, which has until this time been a mystery.
http://www.abc.net.au/science/news/stories/s95905.htm

Oxygen isotope analysis requires destroying the stone (or part of it).

This is not a test a gemologist would ever perform, much less have the capability of performing.

 

[AMorgan]

"It isn't as good as the Colombian emeralds," Fisher said. "This is an alluvial emerald, meaning it was probably discovered in a river in Brazil. You can tell because of the different minerals attached."

No isotope analysis was done on this stone either...

Im not trying to promote this stone nor trying to authenticate it. The image shows a well formed crystal with decent color. If the stone has decent clarity (which any competent gemologist could determine) and the matrix examined under a scope (there is a posibility that this could have been faked), then this makes the find far more rare than an inferior stone "falling out of a conch shell".

Its far easier to prove this stones authenticity than one that fell out of a shell.

Alan

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Phipps sold the first one on eBay quickly after finding it at Jupiter. I dont think he got that much.(under $1000). If it is worth much more, than it would be to his advantage to try to authenticate it. Maybe that is why he left it at the museum. Someone with experience hunting Colored Beach (Skimmer) adamantly questioned its authenticity, Phipps was insulted, might quit TN, and the posts were deleted.

 

[billinstuart]

A Morgan, thanks for the clarification. My intent was to show that it IS entirely plausible for sedimentary conglomerate to both contain emeralds and other material, AND break off due to unusual conditions. Under normal conditions the sediments are unaffected and build up. We have had some extremely unusual storms and wave action in the last few years..possibly the most extreme since the 1715 fleet wrecked. In any case, this extreme wave action has disturbed the longshore ocean bottom as Morgan states. Normally, large pieces of material aren't moved, but strong waves will move them. As they move they disintegrate, eventually breaking up completely.

I feel these last storms have pretty much scoured the bottom down to the 300 year old level. Hopefully, some of this material will continue to work its way to the shore. If you think things don't come ashore ultimately, consider all the sinkers that wash up. EVERYTHING that can be moved will eventually come ashore.

I encourage Phipps to reconsider his desire to leave. Don't become frustrated because of a few doubting Thomases. You provide interesting and valuable input, for which I am thankful.

 

[jeff of pa]

I'll Let this Be My Last Comment on this "I Hope"

This Post is just as Important Here as in Todays Finds

http://forum.treasurenet.com/index.php/topic,118118.0.html

If the Member in a PM or their Thread tells you They Want opinions on
Authenticity, Fine. IF Not, It can Cause Trouble.

Never Rain on anyones Parade in public.

 

[PhipsFolly]

Bigcypresshunter... the small emerald that I recovered on the beach down in the Jupiter area was encrusted with the ships spike... in coquina... very different materials than worm rock. That find was made strictly by hunting in the right place at the right time where numerous other shipwreck materials have come ashore. I don't typically hunt down in Jupiter but was down in that area visiting a good friend of mine who hunts the beaches regularly and with great success. He guided me to the area to hunt and I wasn't even aware that an emerald was present in this conglomerate until I got it home and some of the shells fell off and revealed the stone underneath! One heck of a surprise!!

As for my emerald finds in the Treasure Coast area, as I had mentioned in previous posts, it was not by chance that I found them where I did. The information was passed on to me by a local elderly woman who had been finding them on a regular basis in this particular spot for many years, but couldn't continue to walk the beaches due to health issues. I just happened to be beach hunting and she stopped me to ask what I was finding and then she told me about her finds... a blessing (or a curse... i'm not sure), but definately not luck!!

As for the emeralds origin, as I have also mentioned in previous posts, I have recovered numerous large stones (largest being 38 carats) from the same location as the wormrock conglomerate I just posted. I have had the other stones "graded" by a local gemologist/jeweler and they were attributed to the Muzo Mine in Columbia. I am no expert on this subject, but in laymans terms, I was told that due to the makeup of the small bits of mineral matrix present in the minor inclusions of these stones, they are unique to that particular mine/area of Columbia. They are all medium to dark color, excellent clarity/minor inclusions, and are facet quality stones which are highly sought after and extremely expensive to buy... just one of these stones would be about a half years salary for me!! And that's not taking the historical value into consideration. I did not have the emerald in this conglomerate looked at due to the fact that it is encrusted in a soft matrix of wormrock and I don't want to do anything to disturb it, but I would assume it is from the same mine as the others as they were all found in the same area. Just my 2 cents worth...

Once again, billinstuart, thanks for your support.

Phips