Think it is a bullet.. but what do i know.

[USTiger]

Doing a Geocaching hunt i found this on the ground... i am not sure what it is.. but by my best guess it is a bullet.

it is 22 millimeter long and 12 millimeter wide.

Please help

USTiger

 

[NOLA_Ken]

Looks to be a .38 wadcutter slug.

 

[kuger]

Yea,it is a bullet,what caliber?Hard to say,from the pics?45-70?

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Assuming the 12mm measurement refers to the bullet's cylindrical main body (not its wide-smashed head), I'd say Kuger's question-marked guess is correct. US Springfield 45-70 bullet (Indian Wars era).

 

[trixie charger]

Yea,it is a bullet,what caliber?Hard to say,from the pics?45-70?

45-70 Kuger

Don't know if they hit what they were aiming at, but it got something hard

 

[Monty]

Looks more like a lead concrete anchor that has been pulled out of the hole. What appears to be a mushroomed bullet nose is probably where it was hammered into the hole to start with. Monty

 

[kuger]

Never have seen a concrete anchor with a base cavity.

 

[trixie charger]

45-70 Lead Reloads

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Here's a photo showing a 45-70 bullet. I found the photo somewhere on the internet, so long ago that I can't remember who found them or made the photo. I do recall they were dug near one of the 1870s/1880s "Wild West" forts. The specimens in the photo are fired, so they show some rifling-marks.

 

[USTiger]

Assuming the 12mm measurement refers to the bullet's cylindrical main body (not its wide-smashed head), I'd say Kuger's question-marked guess is correct. US Springfield 45-70 bullet (Indian Wars era).

Yes it is the cylindrical measurements...

Here's a photo showing a 45-70 bullet. I found the photo somewhere on the internet, so long ago that I can't remember who found them or made the photo. I do recall they were dug near one of the 1870s/1880s "Wild West" forts. The specimens in the photo are fired, so they show some rifling-marks.

So i have a bullet from the 1880s

USTiger

 

[trixie charger]

Possibly, the one I posted is a 400gr. modern reload.

 

[kuger]

Assuming the 12mm measurement refers to the bullet's cylindrical main body (not its wide-smashed head), I'd say Kuger's question-marked guess is correct. US Springfield 45-70 bullet (Indian Wars era).

Yes it is the cylindrical measurements...

Here's a photo showing a 45-70 bullet. I found the photo somewhere on the internet, so long ago that I can't remember who found them or made the photo. I do recall they were dug near one of the 1870s/1880s "Wild West" forts. The specimens in the photo are fired, so they show some rifling-marks.

So i have a bullet from the 1880s

USTiger

That is hard to say,they were common during the Indian Wars,and the gun of choice with the Buffalo hunters but are still used today.I have several myself

 

[USTiger]

Assuming the 12mm measurement refers to the bullet's cylindrical main body (not its wide-smashed head), I'd say Kuger's question-marked guess is correct. US Springfield 45-70 bullet (Indian Wars era).

Yes it is the cylindrical measurements...

Here's a photo showing a 45-70 bullet. I found the photo somewhere on the internet, so long ago that I can't remember who found them or made the photo. I do recall they were dug near one of the 1870s/1880s "Wild West" forts. The specimens in the photo are fired, so they show some rifling-marks.

So i have a bullet from the 1880s

USTiger

That is hard to say,they were common during the Indian Wars,and the gun of choice with the Buffalo hunters but are still used today.I have several myself

On the chance of sound stupid... when was the Indian wars..

USTiger

 

[kuger]

Sorry,I meant the Western Indian Wars,1870's-1880's

 

[USTiger]

Sorry,I meant the Western Indian Wars,1870's-1880's

Thanks

USTiger

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

US Tiger... please never feel embarrassed to ask a question, at least here in this forum. Asking questions is how each of us learned the facts we know. Anybody who tries to make you feel stupid for asking a question is deliberately forgetting all the times they themselves asked a "stupid" question.

You asked, "When was the Indian Wars?" To Military-relic historians, a particular "War" era ends in the year which that war ended. Thus, the Indian Wars era began in 1866 (just after the end of the Civil War era in 1865), and continues into the mid-1890s (when the last Indian Wars battles ended). For Military-relic collectors, the next era is the Spanish-American War, which occurred in 1898. The World War One era begins roughly about 1900 and ends in 1918.

Other fields of Historical relic-collecting mostly use different terms. Such as, the Victorian era ...referring to distinctive forms of civilian clothing, architecture, and antique furniture manufactured during the many decades when Queen Victoria ruled the British Empire (1837-to-1901).

About the age of your bullet. Your photos show that its base-rim is thinner (and its base-cavity apparently deeper) than what we see on the modernday Reproduction which Dixie Charger helpfully posted. So, I'd say your bullet is an 1870s-to-1890s Original one.

Here's my theory on how it got to where you found it. Modernday Americans tend to overlook (or not know) the fact that the vast Suburbanization we see nowadays didn't get going until the 1960s. Prior to that, most land hadn't changed much from the mid-1800s. Vast tracts of land were still raw "undeveloped" rural land. Thus, the US Army had free reign to conduct training exercises in those wide-open, lightly populated lands. Relic-diggers are shocked to find Indian Wars, Span-Am, and WW1 military relics in Civil War areas here in Virginia. I myself have dug 45/70 Indian Wars era bullets on the Fredericksburg area battlefields. Also, alongside a highway one-half mile south of Fredericksburg's city limits, you can see a monument which says "Dedicated to Fredericksburg's soldiers in the War Against Spain, who camped on this spot in 1898."

One more example: diggers are surprised at the number of WW1 era artillery shell fuzes they find around Richmond, particularly at the old Civil War fortifications along the James River. Like I said, in the 1870s-to-1950s the US Army conducted training-exercises in a lot more places (far away from military bases) than you can imagine ...including many "live fire" exercises.

I should also mention that a great many "war surplus" firearms (and Military ammunition for them) were sold the the public, and got used for hunting everything from buffalo (as Kuger helpfuly mentioned) to deer to rabbits.

 

[kuger]

Great reply,Cannballguy,thats more of a precise description,and a good one.
The only dumb question,is one that is not asked!!

 

[USTiger]

US Tiger... please never feel embarrassed to ask a question, at least here in this forum. Asking questions is how each of us learned the facts we know. Anybody who tries to make you feel stupid for asking a question is deliberately forgetting all the times they themselves asked a "stupid" question.

You asked, "When was the Indian Wars?" To Military-relic historians, a particular "War" era ends in the year which that war ended. Thus, the Indian Wars era began in 1866 (just after the end of the Civil War era in 1865), and continues into the mid-1890s (when the last Indian Wars battles ended). For Military-relic collectors, the next era is the Spanish-American War, which occurred in 1898. The World War One era begins roughly about 1900 and ends in 1918.

Other fields of Historical relic-collecting mostly use different terms. Such as, the Victorian era ...referring to distinctive forms of civilian clothing, architecture, and antique furniture manufactured during the many decades when Queen Victoria ruled the British Empire (1837-to-1901).

About the age of your bullet. Your photos show that its base-rim is thinner (and its base-cavity apparently deeper) than what we see on the modernday Reproduction which Dixie Charger helpfully posted. So, I'd say your bullet is an 1870s-to-1890s Original one.

Here's my theory on how it got to where you found it. Modernday Americans tend to overlook (or not know) the fact that the vast Suburbanization we see nowadays didn't get going until the 1960s. Prior to that, most land hadn't changed much from the mid-1800s. Vast tracts of land were still raw "undeveloped" rural land. Thus, the US Army had free reign to conduct training exercises in those wide-open, lightly populated lands. Relic-diggers are shocked to find Indian Wars, Span-Am, and WW1 military relics in Civil War areas here in Virginia. I myself have dug 45/70 Indian Wars era bullets on the Fredericksburg area battlefields. Also, alongside a highway one-half mile south of Fredericksburg's city limits, you can see a monument which says "Dedicated to Fredericksburg's soldiers in the War Against Spain, who camped on this spot in 1898."

One more example: diggers are surprised at the number of WW1 era artillery shell fuzes they find around Richmond, particularly at the old Civil War fortifications along the James River. Like I said, in the 1870s-to-1950s the US Army conducted training-exercises in a lot more places (far away from military bases) than you can imagine ...including many "live fire" exercises.

I should also mention that a great many "war surplus" firearms (and Military ammunition for them) were sold the the public, and got used for hunting everything from buffalo (as Kuger helpfuly mentioned) to deer to rabbits.

Thanks for that gr8 description...

As for the location i found it on the side of a path in the Lacamas lake ares in Vancouver WA

it was half in the ground but due to heavy rain it was peaking up from the dirt.

USTiger

 

[trixie charger]

The Yaqui's Battle(Jan-1918) Officially marked the last Military Fight with Native Americans, the 10Th Cavalry(Buffalo Soldiers )
in Arizona. Later that year, in August 1918, the 10th Cavalry fought a border skirmish with the 35th Infantry Regiment at the Battle of Ambos Nogales, German military advisors fought along with Mexican soldiers. This was the only battle during World War I where Germans fought in combat against United States soldiers in North America.
Renegade bands fought through 1918, but most Native Americans(my Family included) consider it over when the last Great Chief , Geronimo surrendered. Pictured is The Battle of Bear Valley Jan9-1918 with the Yaqui.

 

[Monty]

From looking at the first picture I thought the thing was hollow and I couldn't see how anyone thought it was a bullet. But I am guessing now that it is not hollow so never mind. I reload and shoot my own .45-70 rifle and I supoose it could be a bullet for it. I only use modern hard cast bullets and don't know what the original bullet looked like. Mine are 405 grain (I use two types, a round nose and a semi wadcutter style nose) both have a flat base. And no , there are no dumb questions, just dumb answers like my first post. Monty