This is NOT good.

[Crispin]

Crispin, as you know we agree on lots of things and disagree on lots of things. I would like to know what about our country is getting better? As I see it we are loosing freedoms faster and faster...

1. Medicine is advancing. Polio eradicated. Infant and child death rates at all time lowest. We lead the world in medical advancement.
2. Quality of life. We don't have the hardships our forefathers do. Running water, indoor toilets, electricity, ac, heat. These are advancements over the last 100 years and continue to get better.
3. Knowledge. The internet has been a Pandora's box. We now have access to libraries across the country at the click of a button.
4. Communication. Cell phones make it easier to communicate with loved ones and conduct business from almost anywhere.
5. Socialism. I don't want to go to work and trip over the starving, diseased dying masses. Another word for it is Humanism.

These are just five points. Your turn, give me five things that are worse about this country. No slippery slope, no statistics, no conspiracies, no "losing rights," no constitutional mumbo jumbo. Lets just focus on the country and the people.

Respectfully, your friend,
Crispin

 

[Crispin]

Crispin my friend, I brought the Constitution in only because you said the laws have to adapt to the drone technology.

I am sorry, but I sincerely believe no technology is worth the price of violating the Constitution, no technology gives any president, no matter what party he is from the right to kill American citizens on American soil with out due process of law or any judicial overview.

States are passing laws outlawing drones in their air space so I am obviously not the only one who finds it troubling....

For me it is pure arrogance for any president to think they have the right to kill American citizens on U.S. soil without any judicial over view and feel they are entitled to that right with out question. Nixon resigned for a lot less and he was only guilty of thinking he had the right to cover up a burglary...

Oh, well I thought the original post had a lot to do with drones. I would have left them out. Has Obama ordered a strike on any American Citizen on American soil? Do you think any other president would not be facing the same dilemma? Obama didn't develop the drones, he doesn't pilot them. Terrorism has spread to every corner of the world...we must fight back, it will not always be pretty.

 

[Red James Cash]

TSA is only there to get us use to being handled like slaves and nothing more...they will be on trains and on roads next, just wait

They beat you to it bluedragon,they already are on trains and the highways,Viper teams.

Visible Intermodal Prevention and Response (VIPR) | Transportation Security Administration

 

[Dave44]

#5,,, Really? You call it humanism now? Definitely over educated. I have never in my life tripped "over the starving, diseased dying masses. "
Where do you get such a made up life is better list ? Listing medical and technology advances that by all means would be squelched to the dark ages under "Humanism".. Oh My!

My respects.

 

[heathgeo]

I totally agree we can not accuse Obama for everything going wrong in our country..We have allowed this to happen....
Greed is the #1 problem we have in this country...
Allowing the state governments to keep restricting our freedoms and bend the constitution to their agendas... gaining more and more control...
Manufacturing and farming is what built this country... we were independent and strong... now we don't manufacture much at all.. and as for farming... its not looking so good...we have become a govt controlled service based society...
Why is it cheaper to buy something made or grown in china then built right here in the US?
The government is getting to big... they raise taxes.. create new taxes, permits, fees, fines & penalties... forcing businesses out of states and eventually they moved overseas...
Resulting in job losses and less taxes coming in, more people on welfare...
So they do what?
They raise taxes even more so the few of us that still have a job end up struggling to support the ever growing government and the ever growing jobless being supported by the govt.
So no I don't blame Obama for our greed or the states greed or corporate greed which is a huge problem...
I blame Obama because he's a liar and a traitor to our country...
To fix our economy... a few things need to happen...
#1 Lower taxes and stop over regulating businesses...
Bring back manufacturing.... and manufacturers need to stop being so damn greedy...
If they lowered their profit margin by 30% and put that extra money into their employees pay checks coupled with lower taxes the middle (working ) class would be much better off...
In the end the government and businesses will still end up with it but being funneld through the middle class as net disposable income will strengthen our economy..
Or I may be dead wrong and the economy will collapse anyways lol

 

[worldtalker]

1. Medicine is advancing. Polio eradicated. Infant and child death rates at all time lowest. We lead the world in medical advancement.
2. Quality of life. We don't have the hardships our forefathers do. Running water, indoor toilets, electricity, ac, heat. These are advancements over the last 100 years and continue to get better.
3. Knowledge. The internet has been a Pandora's box. We now have access to libraries across the country at the click of a button.
4. Communication. Cell phones make it easier to communicate with loved ones and conduct business from almost anywhere.
5. Socialism. I don't want to go to work and trip over the starving, diseased dying masses. Another word for it is Humanism.

These are just five points. Your turn, give me five things that are worse about this country. No slippery slope, no statistics, no conspiracies, no "losing rights," no constitutional mumbo jumbo. Lets just focus on the country and the people.

Respectfully, your friend,
Crispin

Are people better Human Beings?

 

[Crispin]

#5,,, Really? You call it humanism now? Definitely over educated. I have never in my life tripped "over the starving, diseased dying masses. "
Where do you get such a made up life is better list ? Listing medical and technology advances that by all means would be squelched to the dark ages under "Humanism".. Oh My!

My respects.

Well, I have tripped over the starving, diseased dying. Maybe not masses, but definitely the first part applies. You have been to DC, you know what is there. Same thing with any major city. I think you have the wrong definition of Humanism. It was a term coined by Carl Rodgers and a paradigm of psychology that was in vogue for a while in the 70s and 80s. To boil it down to its base, humanism is an unconditional, positive regard for somebody. Another exaggeration on my behalf, but you use rhetoric as well, it is part of the fun. Those first four points are air tight, lock down, mamma jamma of a case. If I can't use those as the country improving what would you accept as improvement? Less gun control? Less taxes? Those are constructs, they can both have a positive or negative impact. I am pointing out positive changes in the country over the last 50 years. What you got saying it is worse?

 

[Crispin]

Are people better Human Beings?

Trick question! It is a zen thing. I defer to Rebel and Pat-Tekker-Cat.

 

[worldtalker]

Trick question! It is a zen thing. I defer to Rebel and Pat-Tekker-Cat.

Let me rephrase that,Where do you see decent Human Conduct.

 

[0121stockpicker]

Let me rephrase that,Where do you see decent Human Conduct.

I see decent human conduct and so called "random acts of kindness" everyday. You are NOT going to see this from watching the news, reading the papers or surfing the net. If people get out and start interacting they quickly find out the world isn't that bad of a place.

 

[Dave44]

Mr Crispin,
These are not air tight slam Bang life is good examples, You should know better! Even Caligula had hot and cold running water! There have been many times in history where life was good, crops were fruitful, Science was coming on strong.

As a matter of fact.., if not for apathy and a feeling of indestructibility, Along with a strong sense of knowing more than their forefathers, We would arguably be 500 years ahead of where we are now!

Civilizations fall every time because of these very notions you espouse! ( I know Caligula was evil, Do not go there, I am talking about technology) I am often amazed that European countries survived at all, they have been their own worst enemy for a 1000 years.

You do indeed show us the decline of civilization sometimes.

 

[Crispin]

Mr Crispin,
These are not air tight slam Bang life is good examples, You should know better! Even Caligula had hot and cold running water! There have been many times in history where life was good, crops were fruitful, Science was coming on strong.

As a matter of fact.., if not for apathy and a feeling of indestructibility, Along with a strong sense of knowing more than their forefathers, We would arguably be 500 years ahead of where we are now!

Civilizations fall every time because of these very notions you espouse! ( I know Caligula was evil, Do not go there, I am talking about technology) I am often amazed that European countries survived at all, they have been their own worst enemy for a 1000 years.

You do indeed show us the decline of civilization sometimes.

Well I didn't label them facts for a reason. Dave, you are still not giving any counterpoints, you are just shooting down mine. Frankly, the Caligula example is just a silly analogy. The rest of this is theory. I could not prove it right or wrong. In fact, I'm not really trying to prove anything. I was answering Dieselram's question on my opinion. I enjoy your introjections but the original response was directed more towards him then everybody on the forum. DieselRam and I exchange a lot of beliefs and opinions over PM because we are afraid my responses will not be well received. Perhaps, he should have PMed me on this one as well.

As for what I see...horror. As to what I show...hope.

Respectfully,
Crispin

 

[Dave44]

I have seen hope, and I see an empire in decline.

Don't worry,, I think we can bring it back, we just have to start with the children, like Libs did.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Oh, well I thought the original post had a lot to do with drones. I would have left them out. Has Obama ordered a strike on any American Citizen on American soil? Do you think any other president would not be facing the same dilemma? Obama didn't develop the drones, he doesn't pilot them. Terrorism has spread to every corner of the world...we must fight back, it will not always be pretty.

Obama is the first and only president to ever say he has the right to kill Americans on American soil and he believes he has that right.

We are not talking enemy combatants on foreign soil, we are talking Americans on American soil, we are talking Florida to Maine, Washington State to California and all points in between, no indictment, no judge, no jury, just the executioner.....

I don't believe any president ever has or should ever have that right and it wouldn't matter what side of the isle he is from.

If an attack is in progress on our soil all bets are off, otherwise we have the Constitution and due process of law in this country, if we don't then we are no different than any other tyrannical junta or dictatorship.

Personally I don't want to wait till he has killed, believing you have that right is the closest thing.

If we sacrifice our freedoms and compromise our Constitution and Bill of Rights then the terrorists have already won and America and the American people have lost with out the terrorists firing another single shot and I said the same thing when the Patriot Act was passed...

 

[0121stockpicker]

Obama is the first and only president to ever say he has the right to kill Americans on American soil and he believes he has that right.

We are not talking enemy combatants on foreign soil, we are talking Americans on American soil, we are talking Florida to Maine, Washington State to California and all points in between, no indictment, no judge, no jury, just the executioner.....

I don't believe any president ever has or should ever have that right and it wouldn't matter what side of the isle he is from.

If an attack is in progress on our soil all bets are off, otherwise we have the Constitution and due process of law in this country, if we don't then we are no different than any other tyrannical junta or dictatorship.

Personally I don't want to wait till he has killed, believing you have that right is the closest thing.

If we sacrifice our freedoms and compromise our Constitution and Bill of Rights then the terrorists have already won and America and the American people have lost with out the terrorists firing another single shot and I said the same thing when they past that Patriot Act....

Really? And when Washington sent out the us army to put down the whiskey rebellion?? Bonus army, coal / steel union battles, etc, etc, etc. I think you better go back and read your history.

 

[dieselram94]

1. Medicine is advancing. Polio eradicated. Infant and child death rates at all time lowest. We lead the world in medical advancement.
2. Quality of life. We don't have the hardships our forefathers do. Running water, indoor toilets, electricity, ac, heat. These are advancements over the last 100 years and continue to get better.
3. Knowledge. The internet has been a Pandora's box. We now have access to libraries across the country at the click of a button.
4. Communication. Cell phones make it easier to communicate with loved ones and conduct business from almost anywhere.
5. Socialism. I don't want to go to work and trip over the starving, diseased dying masses. Another word for it is Humanism.

These are just five points. Your turn, give me five things that are worse about this country. No slippery slope, no statistics, no conspiracies, no "losing rights," no constitutional mumbo jumbo. Lets just focus on the country and the people.

Respectfully, your friend,
Crispin

Crispin, this could be great fun!
point #1 Crime is getting out of hand more and more.
point #2 The country is more divided than since the civil war. And Obama was supposed to be the one guy that would bring everyone together.....
point #3 National debt is skyrocketing. Faster than ever....
point #4 Political correctness is a disease that has infected common sense, as evidenced by the recent pop tart gun fiasco....
point #5 Personal responsibility has become taboo...

I am pretty tired right now so I will be going to bed soon.
As always I respect your opinion

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Stock I was reading history before you were born. I have also lived, seen and read history very few ever got to see or read and most of it has yet to see and probably never will see the light of day in your lifetime.....

Top Secret SIOP-ESI, was my Intelligence clearance.

SIOP-ESI stands for Single Integrated Operational Plan-Extremely Sensitive Information..

 

[Dano Sverige]

I've read about this about 5 years ago on Infowars.com,maybe now some people will not think Alex Jones's is a nut.

Ah huh. I read the date on Infowars.com 5 years ago too. I'm still very dubious about if that day actually happened! If you cut that guy open and stuffed him full of squirrels and snickers bars he still couldn't be any nuttier than he is!!

 

[LuckyThirteen08]

True belief in the constitution is a personal belief and not necessarily a congressional one,The next time around though,They will not have slavery to blame it on,The US govt breeds hate everyday,Why do you think they promote racist propaganda in the news? Why do you think they keep allowing illegals to go free? This country has failed at its real intention,It was designed to be a melting pot of races and cultures,a land of liberty and freedom,As long as they can keep races from finding a middle ground and rising up for change,Making america the promise that it was,Not the BS promise that it is,This government will continue to trample its ppl,The ones of natural citizenship or otherwise. If this govt would rather support an illegal and deny a born citizen his 2nd ammendment rights,Imagine what they would do in an uprising against them?? Kim Jong Un hasnt got **** ont he ppl who lead this nation,The US govt would make saddam look like pooh bear.. Nevermind....i`ll just shutup...

 

[0121stockpicker]

Stock I was reading history before you were born. I have also lived, seen and read history very few ever got to see or read and most of it has yet to see and probably never will see the light of day in your lifetime.....

Top Secret SIOP-ESI, was my Intelligence clearance.

SIOP-ESI stands for Single Integrated Operational Plan-Extremely Sensitive Information..

So those were not examples of presidents using deadly force against US citizens?

And how would you describe Lincoln's treating of the constitutional during the War of Southern Treason? I don't think there was much due process on the battle fields. And what about that h corpus??

And how about putting tens of thousands if American citizens in intern camps during WWII and the complete control of the press.

Again it is clear you do not like Obama and you are certainly entitled to your opinion. But that doesn't change the facts of history - correct.

And I'm thrilled you have lead an interesting and fulfilled life but obviously that has nothing to do with the discussion of this topic or historical fact.