thoughts on these new releases.

[Calabash Digger]

Ive been looking at the impact,tesero Mojave and now the at max and have been thinking about these new releases please tell me if I'm missing something. Arent these detectors basically the same detectors as previous versions with a couple more bells and whistles. The at max looks like a at pro and at gold in one control box, I was disappointed when I saw it I thought garret was coming out with something totally new. I look at the videos of the impact and to me it just looks like a racer 2 with a couple more bells and whistles but basically the same plat form. I too thought it was gonna be something totally new. I mean cant someone come up with a lite weight detector to compete with the deus with rechargeable batteries? I know the at series is a solid detector but it just looks like a rehash of something they already had much like the new ace series. The impact looks the same to me,I know vlf can only go so far but come on what about lite weight, mutiple frq< which the impact has, rechargeable batterys, which the impact kills aa batteries in 8 hours I mean that's a joke. I have been active on the forums for over a year now and have watched the hype around detectors and the new releases MX SPORT included and its kinda a big let down for me. There will be brand homers who will see this and say blah blah .
__________________

 

[DetectorMoe]

Yeah it seems the ATmax is basically ATpro and ATgold in one, and that's all it is...

 

[Loco-Digger]

Having been reading posts on Tnet since 2014, as well as other metal detecting site. What I've taken away from all my readings is that VLF technology reached it's peak about a decade ago so what can you expect from the manufacturers? What are the manufacturers to do? Some may go the way the XP Deus went with more minor features that allow more fine tuning of functions and a new flashy color scheme or possible being able to hunt in a few seperate frequencies. More may go wireless. This is why I am sticking with my main detector and not chasing pipe dreams to gain that all illusive additional 1/4" in depth.

 

[Rick K]

Well, there's new and NEW.

Impact is something new. New mechanical design, choice of three frequencies (one at a time), new programming including new operating modes. These and probably more differences from the Racer make it new.

Is it truly new technology? No. But to classify major changes to the same basic single frequency VLF detector platform as "same ol same ol" is a bit harsh. Just because the latest Corvette doesn't fly or swim underwater is hardly grounds for crying "same ol same ol".

A good case can be made that since 1978 when George Payne brought us the Bounty Hunter Red Baron (the first detector which let us search in a Ground Balance mode AND discriminate unwanted trash at the same time) all subsequent singlefrequency detectors have been "same ol same ol".

I am as eager as anyone to move beyond the capabilities of the technology which has remained the basis of most metal detectors since 1978, but it ain't here yet. It will be soon, but probably not as soon as we would like.

When these are introduced, is, I'm willing to bet a good Globe, AZ mexican lunch that it they won't be ground penetrating radar or any other gee-whiz rocket science. I am convinced that they will be transmit-receive devices operating in a frequency range below 100 kHz. If single frequency, they will utilize new methods of signal generation (ML's GPZ gold detector is an example of this). If multifrequency they will utilize different technology than those currently used by Minelab, Whites or Fisher. On the receive/signal analysis side expect advanced microprocessors and digital signal processors and performing analysis both in the time domain (like PI detectors do) and frequency domain (like current VLF machines do).

Rick Kempf
Gold Canyon AZ- where there is no gold

 

[Beezly]

I think there are some nice upgrades being made available. Its true they aren't exactly new features but they are different in their own ways. Like others have already said, current technology seems to have reached a limit for now. That's fine though, if you need to go deeper get a machine designed for feet not inches. About the AT Max, I think it has great potential. Its not crazy different, but someone stepping up from an entry level detector can get a lot of features. Those of us with Golds or Pros, probably not mind blowing. I'm glad they released it, and very glad they didn't try to make something that has to be plugged into a computer.

 

[ChampFerguson/TN]

There will always be people who flit from machine to machine and wonder why they don't find their share of 'good stuff'. Kinda like firearms; Beware the detectorist that hunts only a single machine because he probably knows it Extremely well.

Theres another forum that I have been on for a bit over a year and they seem to LOVE the latest flavor of the month there. And honestly, if folks like running thru several new machines a month and enjoy that, well why not. Its all about having fun and we're all different in our tastes.

 

[Rawhide]

New is fun. Only seeing folks copying other machines or re naming old ones. Why cant they just say relic, or coin, or nugget shooter.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... since 1978 when George Payne brought us the Bounty Hunter Red Baron (the first detector which let us search in a Ground Balance mode AND discriminate unwanted trash at the same time) ....

Good post Rick. But wasn't that first Bounty hunter 1977, not 1978 ? It was called "SPD". Whites which quickly followed suit in 1978 with the original 6000, called it GEB disc (but it was essentially the same thing). And then Garrett eventually called it VLF-disc. But essentially all the same thing.

The reason I say 1977, is that there was a 1977 treasure magazine article (I forget which month) where a tester had written an article. And he was having a hard time describing the new need for the speed of the swing. That was totally foreign to ANYTHING any of us had ever envisioned. In fact, it was just a "given" that you had to go slow and creep, etc...

Imagine our surprise when we saw a few persons out with those early motion machines in the late 1970s. We laughed our heads off at their golf-like swing. Figuring they were just nuts and didn't know what they were doing. But later, when it came to show & tell time in the club meetings, we shut up and took note. And silently humbly went out and bought our own. Doh!

A trip down memory lane

 

[Loco-Digger]

New is fun. Only seeing folks copying other machines or re naming old ones. Why cant they just say relic, or coin, or nugget shooter.

The consumer base is growing due to the hobby being on TV and utube. New buyers are ready to pull the trigger and others are needing to upgrade to a better machine. This allows manufactures the chance to come out with newer more up-to-date designs using the same technology with maybe a new feature or 2. Most manufactures also have studies which show which color scheme is relevant for the consumer as well as the product name. Take the hammer for instance. When I grew up my Dad had a claw hammer that did the job well. Look at the market today and see how many brands and color schemes there are for a claw hammer.

Should Ford come out with cars without names and just sell them as transport units? (this comment is concerning (relic, coin, or nugget shooter).

 

[1320]

"Beware the detectorist that hunts only a single machine because he probably knows it Extremely well."

This

 

[chub]

"Beware the detectorist that hunts only a single machine because he probably knows it Extremely well."

This

+1


great thread! The Impact was in my opinion really hyped... the detector to end all detectors....but I dont know enough about previous releases from other manufactures to know how hyped up other machines were before release? I understand that marketing is necessary but at what point does over the top marketing erode the manufacturers/ products credibility?
I saw on another thread about the nokta velox depth bieng advertised as the depth of a mans leg !?
Alot of chinese rip offs also claim unrealistic depths.

So if VLF tech has reached its max depth capability then shouldnt more attention be paid to thinking outside the box with regard to target Id.? Always kills me to see the top end minelab and ace 150 cant tell a tab from a ring.

You are a brave man to criticize Nokta around here! I am not brand loyal but I would think wet beach capable, waterproof, and light weight to be the norm these days. With cars all the fancy options- i.e. power steering, airbags,power windows, 4 wheels discs etc just became normal and expected these days.

I felt disillusioned when I bought the F75 as it made the rest of the fisher range obsolete in my mind. Lets face it, the cost of manufacture of the F5 and F75 (for example) couldnt be much different but for years one cost almost double!

let me end how I started.... put all the hours on one capable machine and it has the potential to become awsome. I dont think there is any shortcuts by buying a new release, you still need the time -and good sites!

chub

 

[Calabash Digger]

lightweight wireless, multi freq, its been done already by deus five years ago. I guess what I'm getting at is I thought garrett, nokta Tesoro etc would follow suit with a new design that's lightweight muti freq etc. I know they know there market better than I do and I know we all have different preferences. For example the guy above said thank goodness you don't have to plug it into a computer , now for me that's a plus because I don't have to buy a new machine every time they upgrade or update something. I guess some would rather buy a whole machine instead of update it for free. Heres another example of what I saw in another thread. A guy said the rechargeable batteries of the deus were a negative, think about this not having to buy batteries for years some have the original batteries from when they came out. I guess people would rather have a impact that eats aa batteries for lunch think I read a set will last 8 hrs in it ! If you guys read any of my stuff you know that the deus is my primary detector and that's why I'm comparing the others to it. Do I think its perfect no I don't but when I look at the other companies tech it seems way behind to me and the deus tech is five years old. I was just expecting something more imo to compete with the deus(lightweight,multi freq,rechargable batteries, etc ) but the market might not need a machine to compete with it in the price range its in. I bet you in five years wireless will be across the board in all price ranges. lol I WAS JUST EXPECTING something more with all the hype , the impacts gonna be all this blah blah, and now the at max is gonna do all this blah blah blah it will work in wet sand blah blah , prediction nothing more than a t gold pro in the same box with a new label on it and a backlight. maybe I'm wrong and time will tell and if I am no harm no foul I will be buying one lol. BTW I agree totally about being great with one machine and mastering it. Just pick a good one to start with and master it and you will be deadly!

 

[Honest Samuel]

Go with the Tesoro Mojave. Good hunting and good luck.

 

[Loco-Digger]

lightweight wireless, multi freq, its been done already by deus five years ago. I guess what I'm getting at is I thought garrett, nokta Tesoro etc would follow suit with a new design that's lightweight muti freq etc. I know they know there market better than I do and I know we all have different preferences. For example the guy above said thank goodness you don't have to plug it into a computer , now for me that's a plus because I don't have to buy a new machine every time they upgrade or update something. I guess some would rather buy a whole machine instead of update it for free. Heres another example of what I saw in another thread. A guy said the rechargeable batteries of the deus were a negative, think about this not having to buy batteries for years some have the original batteries from when they came out. I guess people would rather have a impact that eats aa batteries for lunch think I read a set will last 8 hrs in it ! If you guys read any of my stuff you know that the deus is my primary detector and that's why I'm comparing the others to it. Do I think its perfect no I don't but when I look at the other companies tech it seems way behind to me and the deus tech is five years old. I was just expecting something more imo to compete with the deus(lightweight,multi freq,rechargable batteries, etc ) but the market might not need a machine to compete with it in the price range its in. I bet you in five years wireless will be across the board in all price ranges. lol I WAS JUST EXPECTING something more with all the hype , the impacts gonna be all this blah blah, and now the at max is gonna do all this blah blah blah it will work in wet sand blah blah , prediction nothing more than a t gold pro in the same box with a new label on it and a backlight. maybe I'm wrong and time will tell and if I am no harm no foul I will be buying one lol. BTW I agree totally about being great with one machine and mastering it. Just pick a good one to start with and master it and you will be deadly!

Being that they are in business and have financial targets I am certain they want to stay relevant. Offering a detector with more bells and whistles with a cool design allows for more sales rather than stay stagnant for a decade or more. When anyone wants to introduce a new model or series, they pay good money to build up hype. Hype will peak your interest more than a ho-hum (no hype) roll out. Many people buy in to the hype. It boils down to increasing market share. No one company will own 100% but they all try to increase the size of their slice. I enjoy looking at the new machines and watching videos. Being the frugal guy that I am, if one really impresses me, I have the patience to wait a year or two and buy a used one at half price. The Deus peaked my interest. Many of my friends swear by theirs while a few others love the CTX 3030, so I traded my little boat for one. It is a great machine, but I know that it has not found me anything that my Fisher wouldn't have beeped on. The "minimal" gain in performance was not enough for me to throw away 3 years experience on a flag ship detector.

 

[Calabash Digger]

My friend has a F75 and its mean with the sniper coil.

 

[AlienLifeForm]

Keep what you have for now, and become one with the machine.

 

[chub]

My friend has a F75 and its mean with the sniper coil.

Precisely what you posted earlier! and my exact thinking!
The 5 year old deus and the 9 year old F75 are STILL the datum/reference detectors that most new detectors are measured by! To my knowledge the impact has not been proven to beat the F75 in depth, and from memory the impact was on 5khz to match the depth of the 13khz F75 (in boost mode). Not that Im criticizing nokta but is it considered ground breaking or worthwhile 'upgrading' to? The F75 can run 40-50 hours with headphones.... vs 8 -12 hrs for a 'new' machine.
Why dont detector manufactureres take advantage of LiPO batteries? Like in the RC model industry? They are light weight, powerful and charge super quick.
couldnt microbubbles or some other higher tech material be made to reduce coil weight? (as opposed to epoxy and hi impact moulded plastic)Combined PI and VLF?etc.

The Nokta range is also quite confusing with the quircky fors vs racer 1 (are they still making this?) vs racer 2 vs impact vs velox, kind of an odd aray of layouts.
The green garret machines look completely dated and I am unaware of any significant fan base.

In my opinion, if the manufacturer produces a "new" machine with any components from its existing range then the chances are that its perhaps not all its cracked up to be.

If the AT Max was awsome there would be comparison videos ASAP bragging the capabilities of the machine.
Likewise the Impact versus anything else videos are not out yet.
Like the whites...
So for now for me its keep on going with what I have. I dont feel that much gets left behind with the F75. I also dont suffer from detector envy since owning the F75. (ok I do envy the Deus but its not available here locally.

Chub

 

[chub]

Next question really must be .... whats new from FTP? Hopefully waterproof, beach capable and affordable!

Chub

 

[Honest Samuel]

I recomend a Tesoro Mojave, good and low price. Good hunting and good luck.

 

[Rawhide]

I own a F75, AT Pro, and a Etrac. I am deadly with either one. But there is limitations in all of these detectors. I see a hot mess with that many functions in the new machines. You only hunt one mode at a time. Even fbs machines only use one freq at a time. I say get a detector for the hunt you want to do. These all purpose detectors lack one thing, to do one thing well. You need a special coil for every hunt to get the max out of the machine. Isnt that where it really is, buying accessory's?

Ill share this. When I had my F75 upgraded to the LTD2 I was very surprised at how quiet it was. Didnt notice much difference in depth. But stock coil is best coil for me now. The sniper coil is deadly and fun. Very light machine. Lil long to back pack. Great on battery life and has several modes. I do believe the upgrade cost me targets though. I got used to the noise and could hunt through it. May just buy a old gold handle F75 for hunts too.

Im glad new machines are coming out. I cant wait to see the post of finds and such. But unfortunately I do not see any reason to buy a new machine at this time. Im good. But the Mojave has caught my eye. I think it is a true new machine.