Trade Ax?

[The Rebel]

Found this yesterday, but need an ID if this is a Trade Ax or not. The shaft hole seems small, so wonder what this was used for,. besides cutting wood, lol.

 

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[FreeBirdTim]

Here's a 1700's trade ax I dug up in August 2021. The hole for the handle is oval shaped. I tapped some of the rust off with a hammer and did electrolysis on it. Then I coated it with Rustoleum rust reformer.

 

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[Gare]

GREAT Job FBT !!! Thanks for sharing

 

[ARC]

Here's a 1700's trade ax I dug up in August 2021. The hole for the handle is oval shaped. I tapped some of the rust off with a hammer and did electrolysis on it. Then I coated it with Rustoleum rust reformer.

View attachment 2076452View attachment 2076453View attachment 2076454

Belt hatchet / Axe.

 

[FreeBirdTim]

Belt hatchet / Axe.

Could be a belt axe, but it seems too heavy to hang from your belt. The head weighs 2 1/2 pounds and probably weighed more than that when new. It's 7 1/2" long and the blade is 3 1/4" wide, which is kind of large for a belt axe.

 

[alloy_II]

Hewing axe

 

[dognose]

You only showed one side of the axe and that side does not appear to have any makers mark.

It looks like it has the fold overlap seen by early blacksmith made axes. I still don't think it's a trade axe but an early felling axe. Circa mid 1800's to early 1900's

It's pretty nice.

 

[ARC]

Could be a belt axe, but it seems too heavy to hang from your belt. The head weighs 2 1/2 pounds and probably weighed more than that when new. It's 7 1/2" long and the blade is 3 1/4" wide, which is kind of large for a belt axe.

Ahhh yes... i bit larger than picture gave... but believe this... these too were used in a belt.

Here's the thing... i have had a bone to pick over the Archie's interpretations and "names" of the early stuff.... and not just them...
AXES of ALL types OTHER than pinned down examples have been one of the most "interpreted" items.
It seems most of the time its a matter of interpretation.... as far as what someone calls what.
And there is a good reason for this... one being an axe of any kind can and has been used FOR ALL types of uses AND RE-uses.
An axe is different than all other implements used by humans throughout time... and a most important and essential item in ones personal life.
It literally can make the difference between hard or much harder life.
They were NEVER thrown away... and if a long axe broke... it too became another belt worn axe no matter the size.
Literally an axe could be between living and dying... it was a prized possession and the equivalent to having electricity in a sense... only more serious than that.
It was THE survival tool next to the knife.
So... with all this babble of my opinions...
I will add....
Personally i have had some experience in this area a little deeper than most in research... particularly in hatchets Tomahawks and small axe's... be it a "trade" Splint" "belt" Fur" etc etc.

The head styles changed with needs... all with a specific desired result in mind.
Now... with the style like yours freebird this style was an "all purpose" style IMO... it can and did fall into a multi-use style.
So... it could have been initially intended by maker for a particular use... but used by / for its owner for an entirely other use.
And ALL axes IMO... were "trade" axes... for they were traded as a commodity in all styles shapes and sizes /types...Throughout ALL early times... and personally i think the name/ word "trade axe" is just a generic term used to describe earlier made axes that cannot be pinned down to a specifically designed use.

I am not awake yet.... so........ not responsible for the above lack off coffee response.

:P

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

IMPO trade axes were axes that were traded with Native American trappers in exchange for beaver pelts and other furs, between 16th until to the mid-19th century.

 

[pa plateau hiker]

I have to disagree about "They were NEVER thrown away". The most axe heads I found in one day was 24 along a 1890's logging railroad. The next day I found 5 more out in the woods. I have found 100's of discarded axe heads detecting in the old logging woods. It's nothing to find 4 or 5 a day. They are such a common find, I leave them in the woods.

 

[ARC]

IMO trade axes were axes that were traded with Native American trappers in exchange for beaver pelts and other furs, between 16th until to the mid-19th century.

Correct... BUT... they have always been traded.
The "period" is hard to define in many cases... beings traditional axe making practices were in place long before and after this period.

To be an authority on Fur trade axes is a hard thing to pursue beings styles of that period have even been copied even to this day they are made.
Touch marked pieces are really the ONLY definitive period placed heads.

 

[ARC]

I have to disagree about "They were NEVER thrown away". The most axe heads I found in one day was 24 along a 1890's logging railroad. The next day I found 5 more out in the woods. I have found 100's of discarded axe heads detecting in the old logging woods. It's nothing to find 4 or 5 a day. They are such a common find, I leave them in the woods.

This is not due to it being thrown away IMO ... as much as the head wearing the pole down and loosening to the point the head is thrown during a stroke and being lost.
This as we all know happens to almost every axe known / made.... Especially those made then.

 

[releventchair]

Found this yesterday, but need an ID if this is a Trade Ax or not. The shaft hole seems small, so wonder what this was used for,. besides cutting wood, lol.View attachment 2076068View attachment 2076069View attachment 2076070

I'm back again. Run!!!

Great blade. I'd be delighted.
No pics of course of one oldie I put a short handle on and carried a long time.

I was into living history and blackpowder shoots quite a while.
That brought more study of the fur trade. But in my area the 1600's appealed to me the most.

Your piece is not a "hawk" / tomahawk in the trade sense.
(Bet I could throw it well though.)
It is versatile and at seven inches it could ride in a belt. In a ring. Or a frog , or a sheath.

As the fur trade petered out hawks started to dim. At least the supply of new ones.
A certain blacksmith could make what you wanted though.

Your piece leans towards what would evolve into roofing hatchets. Yours is absent the nail pulling notch that I curse in looking for an oldie.
I've a couple lil guys that have/had two notches! (But thier old and cute and handy so they stay.) They get called crate hatchets.

Lots of different tools in carpentry. And they are part of tool evolution too.

The poll on yours allows using a maul , (a stout round of hardwood would suffice) to hit the poll to split wood. Or reduce stuff for kindling.
The width of the blade and eye size wouldn't make me want it as a felling blade first choice.
But it's still a versatile pattern for lighter behavior.

You've seen the Biscayne ax head design. Imagine one laid atop your piece and the extra metal removed from yours.
You would have an oblong eyed polled ax. With a different design. But it's there in your piece. Plus of course extra..

I've seen old hawks broken at the eye from pounding with the back. A poll has value. But was not as economical in making. Both in material and labor.
Small polls (like our modern hammers business areas) mushroomed easily on old iron that only had hardened steel inserts for blade edges. Your pieces surface is greater. And could be dressed with a file more than a mushroomed small polled ax before getting too reduced.

As T.H. hints yours is newer than the fur trade era.
I'd hazard it predates more common notched roofing hatchets.
It's poll is a proven good style.
It is a wide blade. Not one for crude big stock work or heavy whacking.

The Mandan liked a wide blade. Like a triangle. I don't know if the Lewis and Clark records show the design...But thier member with blacksmithing skills proved highly valuable in making blades/axes for one native group. (Mandan or other?) They knew what they wanted though.
Mandan axes can be found in a search.

Your piece is forge welded. Figure out when non forge welded became the common method (and know a smith could still exist after) as industries grew to get a guess of age.
Civil war camp axes looked like roofing hatchets , alas look there's a nail notch!
Yet during that war as with many other wars , tools being produced by whomever could make them saw varied changes in design by home builders.
Hawks and similar trade blades had round eyes. Yours doesn't.
Camp axes popular in civil war pics have the notch , yours doesn't.
Boarding axes had real wide blades. And hammer type polls. Your poll don't match.
Danish blades were extra wide at the bit. Yours doesn't match.

The fun (or frustration) can be when you or I could have one made. Between what we want and the builders "school" of design and a tools ability to work comes a more custom result.
But all based on something...

Did some Hudson Bay axes have polls and elongated eyes in the 1820s? There are some claims...

I didn't catch a date on these. But see elongated eyes and more polls than roundeyed hawks/axes show.

HUDSON'S BAY COMPANY TRADE AXES

IDENTIFICATION AND HISTORY OF HUDSON'S BAY COMPANY

www.furtradetomahawks.com

 

[ARC]

I'm back again. Run!!!

Great blade. I'd be delighted.
No pics of course of one oldie I put a short handle on and carried a long time.

I was into living history and blackpowder shoots quite a while.
That brought more study of the fur trade. But in my area the 1600's appealed to me the most.

Your piece is not a "hawk" / tomahawk in the trade sense.
(Bet I could throw it well though.)
It is versatile and at seven inches it could ride in a belt. In a ring. Or a frog , or a sheath.

As the fur trade petered out hawks started to dim. At least the supply of new ones.
A certain blacksmith could make what you wanted though.

Your piece leans towards what would evolve into roofing hatchets. Yours is absent the nail pulling notch that I curse in looking for an oldie.
I've a couple lil guys that have/had two notches! (But thier old and cute and handy so they stay.) They get called crate hatchets.

Lots of different tools in carpentry. And they are part of tool evolution too.

The poll on yours allows using a maul , (a stout round of hardwood would suffice) to hit the poll to split wood. Or reduce stuff for kindling.
The width of the blade and eye size wouldn't make me want it as a felling blade first choice.
But it's still a versatile pattern for lighter behavior.

You've seen the Biscayne ax head design. Imagine one laid atop your piece and the extra metal removed from yours.
You would have an oblong eyed polled ax. With a different design. But it's there in your piece. Plus of course extra..

I've seen old hawks broken at the eye from pounding with the back. A poll has value. But was not as economical in making. Both in material and labor.
Small polls (like our modern hammers business areas) mushroomed easily on old iron that only had hardened steel inserts for blade edges. Your pieces surface is greater. And could be dressed with a file more than a mushroomed small polled ax before getting too reduced.

As T.H. hints yours is newer than the fur trade era.
I'd hazard it predates more common notched roofing hatchets.
It's poll is a proven good style.
It is a wide blade. Not one for crude big stock work or heavy whacking.

The Mandan liked a wide blade. Like a triangle. I don't know if the Lewis and Clark records show the design...But thier member with blacksmithing skills proved highly valuable in making blades/axes for one native group. (Mandan or other?) They knew what they wanted though.
Mandan axes can be found in a search.

Your piece is forge welded. Figure out when non forge welded became the common method (and know a smith could still exist after) as industries grew to get a guess of age.
Civil war camp axes looked like roofing hatchets , alas look there's a nail notch!
Yet during that war as with many other wars , tools being produced by whomever could make them saw varied changes in design by home builders.
Hawks and similar trade blades had round eyes. Yours doesn't.
Camp axes popular in civil war pics have the notch , yours doesn't.
Boarding axes had real wide blades. And hammer type polls. Your poll don't match.
Danish blades were extra wide at the bit. Yours doesn't match.

The fun (or frustration) can be when you or I could have one made. Between what we want and the builders "school" of design and a tools ability to work comes a more custom result.
But all based on something...

Did some Hudson Bay axes have polls and elongated eyes in the 1820s? There are some claims...

I didn't catch a date on these. But see elongated eyes and more polls than roundeyed hawks/axes show.

HUDSON'S BAY COMPANY TRADE AXES

IDENTIFICATION AND HISTORY OF HUDSON'S BAY COMPANY

www.furtradetomahawks.com

All of those pictured are belt axes.... IMO

 

[releventchair]

This is not due to it being thrown away IMO ... as much as the head wearing the pole down and loosening to the point the head is thrown during a stroke and being lost.
This as we all know happens to almost every axe known / made.... Especially those made then.

This is why tapered round or oblong eyes were successful on hawks /axes.
The handle it bigger at the end beyond the eye : stopping it from slipping off.
If the handle was soft and the user was running out of stock a wedge could be added. A new handle (easily crafted vs elongated modern hammer axe styles) was in order.

Non pinned , a head can work loose with repeated throws. A rattle and head riding partway down the handle often the worst result. Smacking the handle end beyond the head binds it . And should have been done before the throw that rattled it loose. But hey , sometimes that's a luxury. Time that is.

Around four minute mark. Then again at sevenish , you can see the theory better.

 

[releventchair]

All of those pictured are belt axes.... IMO

Personally I've never belt carried a handle longer than a throwing axe length.
Which for me is knuckles nearest my wrist to my back of elbow length.

One head I have will take a "boys axe" handle.
It's a light head. Not one I'd carry in a belt though. A big guy could cut the 24' or whatever handle down though and belt carry it.
You get over one pound in weight , I'm not interested in belt carry no more.
The smallest heads , mouse hawks-squaw (no disrespect) hawks and similar can become "bag hawks". I don't want a handle riding my shooting bag , or haversack or possibles bag or ditty bag or slit pocket bag ...well you get the idea.

And for throwing knife and hawk , the same weights is a good thing. As is length and central balance. Now you have two pounds average. Plus lead you're carrying to feed a gun for who knows how long. Plus everything else.

So what is the ideal tool to cover what a knife shouldn't? How heavy? How long a handle?
A hatchet or an ax or both?

IF weight is at a premium (you carry it; vs a mule carrying it) the lean towards an ax or hatchet head with a handle just enough that two hands can be used , but one can just as well ; has to be considered.
We don't need to throw it. (Well , you don't l.o.l. I might.) So the handle can be 24 inches long. (Choose your length preference after trying some varied sizes).
Thats too long for a belt axe. At least sit down carefully. But what sized head is it sporting vs a full sized felling axe? Or hewing axe ect.

Now look at the o.p.'s seven inch head. A full sized axe handle vs a two footer. Or shorter.
There's two pound Hudson Bay style heads on 18 inch handles for sale. (Council tool offers one.)
That contrasts my one pound head goal on a throwing /belt /hand tool axe. Double the weight on a belt ax handle length! Oye my wrist and elbow and shoulder. And saggy belt.

A careful weight of the O.P.'s axe head would tell me where / how I'd carry it.
Doesn't mean that's how someone else might. Or what personal length handle would be desired.

 

[releventchair]

Crate axe. Hatchet.
Two notches.( Notch in blade edge almost worn off from repeated sharpening .)
Been using poll to bust ice on ramp outside door.
Made in Germantown Pa.
Would ride a belt just fine.

 

[alloy_II]

View attachment 2076601
Crate axe. Hatchet.
Two notches.( Notch in blade edge almost worn off from repeated sharpening .)
Been using poll to bust ice on ramp outside door.
Made in Germantown Pa.
Would ride a belt just fine.

That's a shingle hammer that has been re-profiled over the years, when new the cutting edge would have been straight.

 

[releventchair]

That's a shingle hammer that has been re-profiled over the years, when new the cutting edge would have been straight.

View attachment 2076641

Here's one called a lathing hatchet.

One marked GTW a seller claims(ed) meant Germantown.
Rather , it's alleged to mean Griffith Tool Works.
Another(pictured above) is marked JACOBS BROS N.Y.

 

[The Rebel]

All done with cleaning it up. Gave it a nice coat of renwax and buffed it up. I've got some oak poles in the basement and will make a handle for it.

 

[BennyV]

All done with cleaning it up. Gave it a nice coat of renwax and buffed it up. I've got some oak poles in the basement and will make a handle for it.View attachment 2076868View attachment 2076869

That’s cool