Two Simple points and a cool quartz frag

[Airborne80]

It was hot, humid and the tide was high when Charlie and I went out for a quick walk/swim and hunt. These two small simple points are very very common at the river's edge and I have a lot of them. I have never seen them identified formally and I don't think that they have been. My belief is that they were used in the spear fishing of the large Gar and other fish that the ancient people who used this fishing village site. What do you think?

 

[Th3rty7]

Hey Airborne, I think alot of these diamond shaped points your finding are Chesapeake diamond points 7000-5000 bc. The larger points of similar shape most likely fall into the Morrow mountain category, both common in our area. I've found a few of those, a couple made of flint, and some made of quartzite.

 

[Airborne80]

Hey Airborne, I think alot of these diamond shaped points your finding are Chesapeake diamond points 7000-5000 bc. The larger points of similar shape most likely fall into the Morrow mountain category, both common in our area. I've found a few of those, a couple made of flint, and some made of quartzite.

Yea..... I was kind of thinking that they were a variation of the Morrow Mountain. I have found more than a few MMs at the same location and made of the same material. These are all the same in that they have thick edges and only taper thin near the base. Since they were made before the bow.... i have to believe that they were used to spear fish and small game, though the thickness of the edges puzzles me a bit. i just wonder why they did not work them to a thinner edge for easier penetration. Hmmm. Thanks for the post brother. I always appreciate your input.

 

[*Molly*]

I have just one Chesapeake diamond point. Hard to come by where I was hunting.
Keep on looking AB, good luck sweetie.

Molly.

 

[uniface]

A wooden spear with barbs carved into it -- especially a double one -- would have worked a whole lot better on fish than a chert-tipped one.

I think the "fish point" idea is a leftover from the "bird point/deer point/buffalo point" business.

Just what I think.

 

[Airborne80]

A wooden spear with barbs carved into it -- especially a double one -- would have worked a whole lot better on fish than a chert-tipped one.

I think the "fish point" idea is a leftover from the "bird point/deer point/buffalo point" business.

Just what I think.

I agree and disagree with you on this one Like you, I cant see the "point" in using tips like the ones that I posted here for fishing. I do (However) have to factor in the historical record of this particular site having been a summer fishing camp site along with the fact that these points are mostly found below the waterline at low tide. That is strange. As for Fishing points being associated with the "bird point", I think that the record is pretty clear that the Indians (at least the Woodland era people) did in fact use points while spear fishing from dugout canoes. It was a three person operation at this location. It consisted of one person on each end of the boat with another in the middle, tending a fire. the firelight would attract the Gar and other fish to the surface where one of the other two would attempt to spear it. That explains why I find 99% of my points at the waterline.

As for the material used.... I believe that they used many things and were not to concerned with appearances, as the rate of loss for the points was high. The shell that I show here is a common find with few variations in terms of shape. But, it nevertheless meets your criteria of a double barb. Most would laugh at the thought of this item having been used. I have a pretty open mind and will not easily rule options out because I am interested in the unknown history as well as established facts.

I have collected hundreds of glass items that I strongly believe were used as fishing points by the later woodlands. I once posted them here and they were removed by a moderator who thought I was kidding. Low and behold, i recently discovered a write up that states clearly that later Indians (1400s on up) used bottle glass for points. Most of that glass was blue. Now... what color do you suppose most of my glass points are? yep. Blue Like most things in life, we just don't know what we don't know until we know it and then its accepted.

 

[uniface]

If I can manage to remember it and navigate the photo-computer interface, I'll copy a photo of one Ishi made for you. The intelligence and practical efficiency of the design is striking once you see it.

 

[Airborne80]

If I can manage to remember it and navigate the photo-computer interface, I'll copy a photo of one Ishi made for you. The intelligence and practical efficiency of the design is striking once you see it.

Cool. What did he use? Shell?

 

[uniface]

Wood.

 

[Tnmountains]

I wonder if Lots of the fishing gear seems to be similiar to the inuit or Aleutian islands styles. I know we have a native bambo that when splintered would also make a lethal spear especialy for the gars and carp and sturgeons. I also find fishing net weight sinkers on water ways. Have speared fish using a hawain sling an awsome weapon. A carved barbed wood point would work as well.I think your points with a socket that fell away attached to leather would work also.
Interesting finds and good study items Keep on it.
Regards,
TnMountains

 

[uniface]

Yep !