🔎 UNIDENTIFIED Unknown flat disc with double headed eagle

PenguSupreme

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Nov 9, 2021
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I've been speculating what this could be for awhile now, would be nice if someone knows anything about this find. There's a double headed eagle on it, It's very flat and has the same image printed on both sides. Dug it up with my metal detector in the yard about a year ago.

What do you guys think it could be?



IMG_0268.JPG IMG_0267.JPG IMG_0274.JPG IMG_0272.JPG

Edit note: Just added a more accurate picture of both sides, as it gives a better idea of what it looks like flipped. Just made a hasty picture back then while preparing this mysterious disc to be first posted on this forum.

When flipped, the scepter changes to a different hand.
 
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Ocean7

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it looks like a medallion using a close image of a 'Russia 2 Kopeks'. I found one of these actual Russian coins with colonial coppers. Attached is a clear sample of the coin and not what I found.
 

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ToddsPoint

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Two headed eagle used by Russia, Austria, and the Masons. Yours looks closest to the Russian. This is the closest I could find. Note the square boxes on the wings with emblems. I can see them faintly on your piece.
 

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PenguSupreme

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Nov 9, 2021
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Yeah, the only thing I can think of this object being is some type of medallion or Russian currency. Just don't have a clear identification yet, so it's all just speculation really. What makes it even weirder, is that I found this object on U.S soil in my back yard. The only things I was finding until I found this one were just buffalo nickels and wheat pennies from the early 1900's, including relics from back around that period.

I'm just intrigued by the fact some weird Russian symbol was in my soil the whole time, which I'm guessing means that the people who used to live on my property probably had some family who were Russian or something. :dontknow:
 
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PenguSupreme

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Is it really two sided per se or is it stamped hard/deep enough to make a negative image on the backside? Being a symmetrical design it would make it appear to be double sided per se.
Yeah, honestly it kinda does look like it was a negative image as one side is white and looks like it was snipped off by something because of the color change. It could be from being underground for so long. It could mean a lot of things, so idk really. I do have a high belief though of it possibly being a negative image, considering it's a very flat plate of metal, honestly feels like there should be something on the other side of the disc.

Until I find out what this thing really is, it could literally mean anything atm. Maybe there's a way to tell what was on the other side though, the diameter was pretty similar to some type of coin/medallion. Anyways, until then I'll be here for any more info or possibly even a valid identification of what it could be.
 
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PenguSupreme

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Two headed eagle used by Russia, Austria, and the Masons. Yours looks closest to the Russian. This is the closest I could find. Note the square boxes on the wings with emblems. I can see them faintly on your piece.
Yeah, I agree on that as a fact. The symbol resembles it as something Russian, so that's why I put this thing around the Eastern Europe region. Could be trash, could be something interesting, who knows.
 
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PenguSupreme

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it looks like a medallion using a close image of a 'Russia 2 Kopeks'. I found one of these actual Russian coins with colonial coppers. Attached is a clear sample of the coin and not what I found.
Last message for now that I'll reply to.

Yeah, honestly that is also a possibility. I live in the upper peninsula of Michigan, which is just under Lake Superior. Tons of trappers went to the region a long time ago where I currently live in today. Who knows, maybe my yard happened to have fur trapping activity from some person from back then. Maybe my home used to belong to a Russian foreigner that migrated to the U.S. Lots of possibilities.
 
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Plug N Play

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PenguSupreme: " ... has the same image printed on both sides.

TLDR: Simple ... What hand is the scepter in ... 1st pic. vs. 2nd pic?
Not the same image ... Opposite images ? The royal scepter and royal orb are switched.
This item was not made to be viewed from the back.

That is what doesn't look right.


It doesn't appear to be the same image on both sides.
You'll have folks looking for solutions that are meant to be seen from both sides.
Coins and tokens and such.


It looks like this isn't printed, but maybe pressed.
Image sticking inwards from the back and sticking out on the front ?
Opposite ... not the same?


Now it would make sense that one picture looks rougher, doesn't have all the nice white, and doesn't have the fine gold touches on the image. Pic1 is the back.

The good side has the white paint or enamel or something presentable on the side to be seen with the fine gold embellishments on the image ? Pic2

Check again and see what I'm asking. What hand is the royal scepter in ? I think it's different on each side and I find it hard to believe that someone made the emblem backwards on one side if it was meant to be seen.


Clocks, watches, fobs, key chains, buckles, jewelry boxes and a whole variety of items with this embellishment meant to be viewed only from one side ... not coins or tokens and such.

And, without attachment points or remnants, it was probably glued or held by a perimeter ring of some sort ?

Anyway, that's what I'm seeing.
You have the item ... what are you seeing?
Are the two sides the same ... or are they opposite ?
It can make a big difference when trying to id something.

Russian Eagle.jpg
 
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PenguSupreme

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Nov 9, 2021
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PenguSupreme: " ... has the same image printed on both sides.

TLDR: Simple ... What hand is the scepter in ... 1st pic. vs. 2nd pic?
Not the same image ... Opposite images ? The royal scepter and royal orb are switched.
This item was not made to be viewed from the back.

That is what doesn't look right.


It doesn't appear to be the same image on both sides.
You'll have folks looking for solutions that are meant to be seen from both sides.
Coins and tokens and such.


It looks like this isn't printed, but maybe pressed.
Image sticking inwards from the back and sticking out on the front ?
Opposite ... not the same?


Now it would make sense that one picture looks rougher, doesn't have all the nice white, and doesn't have the fine gold touches on the image. Pic1 is the back.

The good side has the white paint or enamel or something presentable on the side to be seen with the fine gold embellishments on the image ? Pic2

Check again and see what I'm asking. What hand is the royal scepter in ? I think it's different on each side and I find it hard to believe that someone made the emblem backwards on one side if it was meant to be seen.


Clocks, watches, fobs, key chains, buckles, jewelry boxes and a whole variety of items with this embellishment meant to be viewed only from one side ... not coins or tokens and such.

And, without attachment points or remnants, it was probably glued or held by a perimeter ring of some sort ?

Anyway, that's what I'm seeing.
You have the item ... what are you seeing?
Are the two sides the same ... or are they opposite ?
It can make a big difference when trying to id something.

View attachment 1990147
Yeah, that's exactly what seems to be going on here. One side was probably pressed onto with a stamp originally. To give you a better image of what it looks like on the back, since I had the thing flipped upside down, I'll just show the 2 sides flipped more accurately here in this post.

The scepter in the white has the scepter in the left hand, while the other side has the scepter in the right hand. It's weird because I can't imagine the scepter would just switch like that if this was actually supposed to have 2 identical sides - which is why I believe that the other side was removed from being in the ground for so long.

Anyways, here's a more accurate picture of the item. I'll also edit my original post of the item and add in a more accurate picture of both sides when flipped. For some reason when I made the pictures, I didn't flip the white side the right way, I had it upside down. Should be all good now though.

IMG_0268.JPG IMG_0271.JPG

Disc 1, disc 2. When it's flipped the scepter switches hands. That's why I think, like you said, the white disc may actually be where it was originally stamped onto.
 
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Red-Coat

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For sure that’s the Russian Imperial eagle. In 1882/3 the Russian Empire’s coat of arms evolved into three versions: Greater, Middle and Lesser. Yours appears to be the Lesser arms in use from 1883 until the Russian Revolution of 1917. It should have eight shields on the wings representing the individual arms of Astrakhan, Siberia, Georgia, Finland, Kiev-Vladimir-Novgorod, Taurica, Poland and Kazan plus a larger shield on the eagle’s breast with St George slaying the dragon. Like this:

Lesser Arms.jpg

It’s not completely heraldically accurate though, in that the ribbon of the Order of St Andrew linking the three crowns is absent (shown in blue on the arms above).

It could be from a compact, make-up mirror or a number of other things, but I would think it’s most likely the cover of a pocket watch case, and might well have been enamelled at one time. Watch cases with the arms actually made in Russia in that period were almost invariably high quality presentation pieces not sold to the general public. This would be a typical presentation piece but, if what you have is from a watch case, it’s not in that territory of quality.

Presentation Watch.jpg

After the revolution, outside Russia, the arms continued to be used for nostalgic or purely decorative reasons of prestige… especially by jewellers who had fled the country when the Bolsheviks overthrew the monarchy.

It’s absolutely not coinage-related.
 
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PenguSupreme

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Nov 9, 2021
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For sure that’s the Russian Imperial eagle. In 1882/3 the Russian Empire’s coat of arms evolved into three versions: Greater, Middle and Lesser. Yours appears to be the Lesser arms in use from 1883 until the Russian Revolution of 1917. It should have eight shields on the wings representing the individual arms of Astrakhan, Siberia, Georgia, Finland, Kiev-Vladimir-Novgorod, Taurica, Poland and Kazan plus a larger shield on the eagle’s breast with St George slaying the dragon. Like this:

View attachment 1990228

It’s not completely heraldically accurate though, in that the ribbon of the Order of St Andrew linking the three crowns is absent (shown in blue on the arms above).

It could be from a compact, make-up mirror or a number of other things, but I would think it’s most likely the cover of a pocket watch case, and might well have been enamelled at one time. Watch cases with the arms actually made in Russia in that period were almost invariably high quality presentation pieces not sold to the general public. This would be a typical presentation piece but, if what you have is from a watch case, it’s not in that territory of quality.

View attachment 1990230

After the revolution, outside Russia, the arms continued to be used for nostalgic or purely decorative reasons of prestige… especially by jewellers who had fled the country when the Bolsheviks overthrew the monarchy.

It’s absolutely not coinage-related.
Yeah, I can see that it's not coin related now. Most coins you dig up aren't so flat, just couldn't tell if it was one or not since I've never dug up a Russian symbol out of the dirt before.

And yeah, that could mean a lot of things still even if this isn't related to a coin. That means it could've been from some furniture, something decorative, etc. Lots of possibilities there.

One thing is for certain though, it most likely is from around that time period you listed, as the eagle is enough proof for that. Would honestly make sense for this to have been part of something else, as the circular disc seems to have been ripped off of something.

Even if we don't get a proper identification of what this exactly was, thanks for the info as it clears up a lot of things for me.
 
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